International students I need your help !

[lysine]

I'm currently a junior (almost done with my third year) in a university in the United States, hoping to start a phD program right after graduation.  

I was initially really excited when I saw how many interesting programs that were out there, now I am just bumped out after contacting the school regarding acceptance rate of international students. Most programs I'm interested in takes only one international students per year, and I feel like that basically means that I won't be admitted. ( And I'm interested in program in plant biology/ bioinformatics that are somewhat related to plant biology, that might be the reason why since most of these programs are relatively small.

 

Here's my stats right now:

 

Undergrad Institution: Highly Ranked Public School, strong bio programs
Major(s): Biochemistry 
Minor(s): Computer Science
GPA in Major: 4.0 
Overall GPA: 4.0

(I'm a transfer student and before transfer my GPA in a CC was 3.93.)

Position in Class: Unknown
Type of Student: International

GRE Scores (revised/old version): Have not taken yet, will take it in september!

Research Experience: 

approximately 2 years in one lab (one summer full time, ~20 hours during school year; two undergraduate national conference presentation )

one summer full time in another (one second author publication)

will have another year in another lab by the time I apply

Awards/Honors/Recognitions: 2 summer fellowships to do research at a

top five institution
Pertinent Activities or Jobs: Will be TA for a year by the time I graduate...

Any Miscellaneous Accomplishments that Might Help: Nah...

Special Bonus Points: Two of my recommenders are really big PI in the field, and the other one is a really young PI that basically went straight to graduate student to PI (who doesn't want to skip the postdoc period... )
 

I discussed with some postdocs and PIs and right now here's the list I have

Stanford- bioscience

Berkeley -PMB (1 international student per year)

Davis - plant bio

UCSD - biological science

Yale - biological science (acceptance rate for international student ~ 5%)

Cornell

UW Madison ( acceptance rate <3%)

UNC Chapel Hill

Duke 

Michigan

 

Do any of you have suggestions for schools that are more generous to international students that I should look into? 

 

Or alternatively, does getting a master improve my chance of being accepted?

 

Or.... what about looking outside the US?

 

Any input will be appreciated.

[TakeruK]

Private schools tend to be more generous to international students. I would NOT look at the acceptance rate, instead, look at the "% of admitted students who are international". Acceptance rates for international students are low because 1) schools accept fewer international students and 2) more international students apply! You don't want to confound the two--you just want to avoid schools that do (1), but it doesn't matter for you if (2) is true.

 

For example, at my current school (a private school), about 40%-50% of each incoming graduate class is international. This is a huge difference compared to public California schools (they quote fractions around 10%). In my field, these programs take 5-6 students per year, so you'd have to be like the best international student in TWO years to get in! Some big state schools (e.g. Wisconsin) will boast about how much of their class is international (12%). According to their international student office, it's one of the highest in the country and I think that's true (only private schools, which there are few of, would have higher numbers). 

 

My advice for you would be to apply to more private schools. Your list only has 4 right now, you might want to increase it! I got into high ranked private schools but rejected from lower rank public schools because (I think) of international student status!

[intl2015]

I am also an international student who has the bachelor degree in the US. I apply for Phd in biology/molecular bio for fall 2015 and following advice is solely based on my application process this year.

 

UCSD has a preliminary application for non-US citizens and only a couple of students are selected out of the pre-app to fill out the general application. So it is very competitive for international students even to get to the actual application opposed to the applicants who are citizens. But the plus side of the pre-app is that it is free so at least you don't spend about a hundred dollars to apply just to get rejected. I guess schools in UC-university system are competitive for international students in general but I do know an international student who gets interview from both UCLA and UCSD.

 

What program are you applying for UW-Madison? I would recommend CMB program at Madison. It does not have a set number of international students that are accepted each year and it has plant biology under the program. Also if you get accepted at CMB, you can basically rotate in any lab even if your PI is not a part of CMB.

 

Have you also looked into UPenn biology program? It also does not have a quota on international students acceptance. I am sure there are more schools that have similar policy. Generally, graduate schools that have NSF training grant as a main source of funding do not accept international students since the grant can only be used to fund the citizens and usually, they are operating under the school of medicine.

 

Based on your stat, you have a good chance of getting into good schools right after your undergrad. If you want to improve your chances, I'd encourage you to look into getting a research tech position in a relevant lab rather than a master degree. Good luck!!

Edited April 1, 2015 by intl2015

[oranger]

Washington University in st. louis has a great plant bio program and they accepted international students this year.  Also the application is free

[ERR_Alpha]

I thought for some reason that students with bachelors degrees from the U.S. were considered the same as domestic applicants... I could be wrong about that though.

[StemCellFanatic]

I thought for some reason that students with bachelors degrees from the U.S. were considered the same as domestic applicants... I could be wrong about that though.

 

We do have an advantage over international students who do not have a bachelor's degree from the US but when it comes to funding, we are still in that pool of international students, and that prevents graduate programs from accepting us

[expandyourmind]

Weill Cornell is VERY generous to its international applicants. They really are proud of being able to take in a lot of international students and they all seem super happy there. Not to mention their relationship with Sloan Kettering is pretty awesome. 

[Vene]

I thought for some reason that students with bachelors degrees from the U.S. were considered the same as domestic applicants... I could be wrong about that though.

I don't think it's the degree that's the problem in either case, I think it's an issue of funding. There are a lot more funding opportunities for domestic students and at public universities international students are certainly more expensive for the program.

[PeterPanComplex]

I don't think it's the degree that's the problem in either case, I think it's an issue of funding. There are a lot more funding opportunities for domestic students and at public universities international students are certainly more expensive for the program.

True that. Issue #1 is definitely funding issues. Also, having a US undergrad degree sets you apart from other internationals when they are considering you... and living in the US and being able to interview in person is also an advantage (relative to other internationals). 

My recommendation though would be to make good use of your OPT year before applying and work in a research lab. If you are able to get your name in a publication before/while applying, do it! If you can go present an abstract at a research conference, do it! Find those resume boosters because they will matter A LOT for you as an international. I'm also a fellow international student who just applied for Fall 2015 and I think those qualifications set me apart within the international applicant pool. The other important thing would be to start making connections with PIs at institutions where you will be applying (research conferences are great for that), show them how awesome you are even before they are evaluating you! It pays off in the long run. Good luck!  

PS: I also had the same freakouts you did! PM me if you want to talk about it more or have additional questions!

Edited April 2, 2015 by PeterPanComplex

[lysine]

Private schools tend to be more generous to international students. I would NOT look at the acceptance rate, instead, look at the "% of admitted students who are international". Acceptance rates for international students are low because 1) schools accept fewer international students and 2) more international students apply! You don't want to confound the two--you just want to avoid schools that do (1), but it doesn't matter for you if (2) is true.

 

For example, at my current school (a private school), about 40%-50% of each incoming graduate class is international. This is a huge difference compared to public California schools (they quote fractions around 10%). In my field, these programs take 5-6 students per year, so you'd have to be like the best international student in TWO years to get in! Some big state schools (e.g. Wisconsin) will boast about how much of their class is international (12%). According to their international student office, it's one of the highest in the country and I think that's true (only private schools, which there are few of, would have higher numbers). 

 

My advice for you would be to apply to more private schools. Your list only has 4 right now, you might want to increase it! I got into high ranked private schools but rejected from lower rank public schools because (I think) of international student status!

 

I see your point. 

For school in california, UCSD has a student body that contains 1/3 international students in my program, which sort of makes me happy. But when it comes to Berkeley, there's less than 10 %. (And some in UCSF are even lower!)

I actually sent email to Wisconsin Madison and they told me that they don't take that much internationals either ( but still more than most california schools).

I looked into privates schools, but it seems like not a lot of them have the sort of research I wanted. I guess I just have to look for longer. Though some of the private schools still have funding issues and the amount of internationals they take are comparable to public schools.

 

 

 

 

I am also an international student who has the bachelor degree in the US. I apply for Phd in biology/molecular bio for fall 2015 and following advice is solely based on my application process this year.

 

UCSD has a preliminary application for non-US citizens and only a couple of students are selected out of the pre-app to fill out the general application. So it is very competitive for international students even to get to the actual application opposed to the applicants who are citizens. But the plus side of the pre-app is that it is free so at least you don't spend about a hundred dollars to apply just to get rejected. I guess schools in UC-university system are competitive for international students in general but I do know an international student who gets interview from both UCLA and UCSD.

 

What program are you applying for UW-Madison? I would recommend CMB program at Madison. It does not have a set number of international students that are accepted each year and it has plant biology under the program. Also if you get accepted at CMB, you can basically rotate in any lab even if your PI is not a part of CMB.

 

Have you also looked into UPenn biology program? It also does not have a quota on international students acceptance. I am sure there are more schools that have similar policy. Generally, graduate schools that have NSF training grant as a main source of funding do not accept international students since the grant can only be used to fund the citizens and usually, they are operating under the school of medicine.

 

Based on your stat, you have a good chance of getting into good schools right after your undergrad. If you want to improve your chances, I'd encourage you to look into getting a research tech position in a relevant lab rather than a master degree. Good luck!!

 

 

For UCSD, they take a lot of international student though! So I think it probably won't hurt to try the free preapp

 

I was actually looking at CMB for Wisconsin-madison. So they don't have the exact statistics, but they said there are around 200 international applied, but they ended up giving offers to 5 of them. That freaked me out a little until I saw TakeruK's reply because when I looked again, roughly 20% of the program are internationals. Not too bad.

 

I also take a look into UPenn biology too and they take quite a lot of internationals, but I don't think my research interest align well with any of the professors'.

 

So let say if I take a gap year, do you think I should look for some potential POI's lab and apply to work there? or no? I am sort of against taking a gap year because I spent 5 years to finish my undergraduate study, and I felt like working 4 years for around 20 hours a week is certainly something, but of course there's always better candidate out there.... I guess my concern is, is taking a gap year going to SIGNIFICANTLY improve my chance?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Washington University in st. louis has a great plant bio program and they accepted international students this year.  Also the application is free 

 

Thanks! Though when I looked into it, it looks like they have a rather small student body (correct me if I'm wrong, for some reason that I can't remember I think it is small). I'll definitely look a little bit more into the professors.

 

 

 

 

 

Washington University in st. louis has a great plant bio program and they accepted international students this year.  Also the application is free 

 

 

 

Yep just like the other said. I also think that another advantage of having a US degree is that when they evaluate your transcript it's gonna be easier (and probably don't need to test for english since the primary teaching language at any US institution is english).

 

 

 

 

 

Weill Cornell is VERY generous to its international applicants. They really are proud of being able to take in a lot of international students and they all seem super happy there. Not to mention their relationship with Sloan Kettering is pretty awesome. 

 

Hmm are you talking about their medical school? I'm not sure if they have plant biology program, but I am probably going to apply the biology program in Cornell graduate school

 

 

 

 

 

True that. Issue #1 is definitely funding issues. Also, having a US undergrad degree sets you apart from other internationals when they are considering you... and living in the US and being able to interview in person is also an advantage (relative to other internationals). 

My recommendation though would be to make good use of your OPT year before applying and work in a research lab. If you are able to get your name in a publication before/while applying, do it! If you can go present an abstract at a research conference, do it! Find those resume boosters because they will matter A LOT for you as an international. I'm also a fellow international student who just applied for Fall 2015 and I think those qualifications set me apart within the international applicant pool. The other important thing would be to start making connections with PIs at institutions where you will be applying (research conferences are great for that), show them how awesome you are even before they are evaluating you! It pays off in the long run. Good luck!   

PS: I also had the same freakouts you did! PM me if you want to talk about it more or have additional questions!

 

 

First of all thanks a lot!! I'll definitely send you some PM and ask you about your application . By the way did you take a gap year?

 

So again my concern is that IF the gap year is going to be all that useful. It looks like it helped you a lot, but I know some international students who have quite a few publications (well for an undergraduate, even 2-3 sounds a lot to me) and just didn't get in anywhere.

 

I think for plants, things goes much slower than lets say working with bacteria or stuffs. Sometimes you get a project that you'll have to prepare your own pure bred plants and then to do the crosses (Not so horrible for arabidopsis.. but still). One generation could take 12 weeks and there's 52 weeks in a year. There's a chance I won't get any publication or go to any conference after working in a lab for a year. One of the lab tech worked in my old lab, he joined in when the project is almost done and worked for a year. By the time he started his master program, the publication was just submitted. And he's pretty lucky for that too.

[dagkoc]

I see your point. 

For school in california, UCSD has a student body that contains 1/3 international students in my program, which sort of makes me happy. But when it comes to Berkeley, there's less than 10 %. (And some in UCSF are even lower!)

I actually sent email to Wisconsin Madison and they told me that they don't take that much internationals either ( but still more than most california schools).

I looked into privates schools, but it seems like not a lot of them have the sort of research I wanted. I guess I just have to look for longer. Though some of the private schools still have funding issues and the amount of internationals they take are comparable to public schools

Hi, I have a similar issue, I do undergrad in the UK, but I have been seriously ill .Had a cancer and necrosis of the stomach, so it affected my grades, hugely. But I mailed hundreds of poi and it seems that they suggests that there is a chance. Sometimes smaller, sometimes bigger.

 

 

 

 

 

For UCSD, they take a lot of international student though! So I think it probably won't hurt to try the free preapp

 

I was actually looking at CMB for Wisconsin-madison. So they don't have the exact statistics, but they said there are around 200 international applied, but they ended up giving offers to 5 of them. That freaked me out a little until I saw TakeruK's reply because when I looked again, roughly 20% of the program are internationals. Not too bad.

 

I also take a look into UPenn biology too and they take quite a lot of internationals, but I don't think my research interest align well with any of the professors'.

 

So let say if I take a gap year, do you think I should look for some potential POI's lab and apply to work there? or no? I am sort of against taking a gap year because I spent 5 years to finish my undergraduate study, and I felt like working 4 years for around 20 hours a week is certainly something, but of course there's always better candidate out there.... I guess my concern is, is taking a gap year going to SIGNIFICANTLY improve my chance?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks! Though when I looked into it, it looks like they have a rather small student body (correct me if I'm wrong, for some reason that I can't remember I think it is small). I'll definitely look a little bit more into the professors.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yep just like the other said. I also think that another advantage of having a US degree is that when they evaluate your ttranscript, it'sgonna be easier (and probably don't need to test for english since the primary teaching language at any US institution is english).

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hmm are you talking about their medical school? I'm not sure if they have plant biology program, but I am probably going to apply the biology program in Cornell graduate school

 

 

 

 

 

 

First of all thanks a lot!! I'll definitely send you some PM and ask you about your application . By the way did you take a gap year?

 

So again my concern is that IF the gap year is going to be all that useful. It looks like it helped you a lot, but I know some international students who have quite a few publications (well for an undergraduate, even 2-3 sounds a lot to me) and just didn't get in anywhere.

 

I think for plants, things goes much slower than lets say working with bacteria or stuffs. Sometimes you get a project that you'll have to prepare your own pure bred plants and then to do the crosses (Not so horrible for arabidopsis.. but still). One generation could take 12 weeks and there's 52 weeks in a year. There's a chance I won't get any publication or go to any conference after working in a lab for a year. One of the lab tech worked in my old lab, he joined in when the project is almost done and worked for a year. By the time he started his master program, the publication was just submitted. And he's pretty lucky for that too.

[intl2015]

 

For UCSD, they take a lot of international student though! So I think it probably won't hurt to try the free preapp

 

I was actually looking at CMB for Wisconsin-madison. So they don't have the exact statistics, but they said there are around 200 international applied, but they ended up giving offers to 5 of them. That freaked me out a little until I saw TakeruK's reply because when I looked again, roughly 20% of the program are internationals. Not too bad.

 

I also take a look into UPenn biology too and they take quite a lot of internationals, but I don't think my research interest align well with any of the professors'.

 

So let say if I take a gap year, do you think I should look for some potential POI's lab and apply to work there? or no? I am sort of against taking a gap year because I spent 5 years to finish my undergraduate study, and I felt like working 4 years for around 20 hours a week is certainly something, but of course there's always better candidate out there.... I guess my concern is, is taking a gap year going to SIGNIFICANTLY improve my chance?

 

I agree. Unless application fee is a tight access, I would say there is no harm in applying to any programs. How about UPenn CAMB? You might have already looked into it but I heard that they also take a lot of international students. Not sure if they have faculty research that would align your interest though. Worth looking nonetheless.

 

I can't tell for sure if a gap year will 'significantly' improve your chance. It will depend on your work and publication quality you get. As far as I know, students usually take 2 gap years but that is just based on people I know so I could be wrong. I believe it can definitely improve your resume. Based on my experience, most of my application deadlines are on Dec 1st/2nd and I got all interview invitations no later than Jan 15th. So you can apply to the programs in your senior year fall semester and if you are unsatisfied with your interview invites, then you can still apply to tech position in Feb? This is solely based on my experience so other people can chime in on this. But as I've mentioned before, you do have a good stat and seems to have great research experience so you do have a good shot at this! Good luck!

[berba9]

For Duke in particular they list very detailed statistics for all their programs - it varies heavily from program to program. 

https://gradschool.duke.edu/about/program-statistics

In Wisconsin too it varies by program- their genetics program is (as I learnt) really tough for internationals but I know their chemistry program isn't as hard. I couldn't find any officially listed stats, but there was this about it.

 

Another no-go area (in general, may vary for specific programs) is the University of California system. Someone posted that UCSF Tetrad would interview 2 and accept 1 international student this year. I think Berkeley is similar.

Chapel Hill also told me that they have limited international funding but I think the situation is better than Wisconsin.

In summary (though not as a hard rule), private colleges will have more funding for internationals than state colleges.

 

 

Btw, glancing through your stats- they're quite strong, if you're very interested in any of the restrictive places you could ask a professor there before applying- I think you'll have a shot.

[kilomole]

UT Southwestern accepts a fair amount of international students every year. If you are interested in research that overlaps physical and biological sciences, there are quite a lot of strong labs here. This past year of graduate class consists of 50% international students.

 

Your undergrad GPA looks great; however, many of the top 10 programs you are applying to accepts a very small percentile of international students (maybe at most 3-4 international students per 40-50 people class size). A 4.0 GPA is quite common among its applicant pools; publication as a first author is what normally set an excellent applicant from the rest. You may want to apply for an O.P.T. on student visa and do 1-2 years of research assistantship at a school of your liking before applying for its PhD programs. During your R.A., build a solid relationship with your P.I. and try to get at least a significant publication out; this will significantly increase your chances.

Edited April 9, 2015 by kilomole