International Education: Vanderbilt IEPM / Harvard IEP

[NMB]

Hi, friends!

 

At this point, I'm just trying to poll as many perspectives as possible. I know this is a topic more suited for the main "Decisions" thread, but really hoping to glean some opinions from people in the education field if possible!

 

1.) Vanderbilt IEPM

• 2 year program
  • Longer program = better learning experience / more in-depth coverage of policy, quantitative, and research topics beyond the introductory?
  • Really love the thought of having time to redirect my path according to changed interests or address concerns and fill skills gaps after summer internship.
  • Reasonably paced coursework, to the point where I feel like I could have a job (or 2?) or even audit a language / other interest courses (which only costs $10 a course!)
• Built-in + customizable international summer internship
  • Specifically, my background/experience is within a very specific region of South Asia, and this program is connected to that region in a way that would allow me unprecedented access/employment in the area.
• Nashville
  • Burgeoning immigrant / refugee populations and many opportunities to support these communities on the domestic end. I have done & enjoyed this kind of work before.
  • Not many large international development or education organizations based in Nashville or in the South (working for the World Bank or something comparable isn't explicitly my goal -- I could be just as happy working for a tiny community-level nonprofit -- but it would be nice to have the network/connections/geographic viability of that option)
  • I'm originally from TN and my family still lives in Chattanooga. I love my hometown, but I never really planned on living in the South again. I have tons of friends in Nashville, though, and there is something appealing about returning to where I'm from and contributing to it's *HOPEFULLY* more diverse, international and progressive future.
  • It's cheap.
• Finances
  • 33% tuition scholarship, $7500 work/study, up to $20500 federal loans. Coupled with other support / savings, I will only need to borrow ~$10000 a year (looking at maybe $21000 loans total)
• Other logistical concerns
  • Prominent director of the program retired this year. Wonder how the program's reputation is perceived outside of the South / if it will be as strong in the future / if dramatic changes will happen during my time as a student. I love the other faculty, but there aren't many resources geared toward my region of focus or any South Asian languages/specific coursework at all.
  • My boyfriend is going to be in Ithaca for the next 2 years. Hard to get to from anywhere, but especially from a whole different part of the country!

 

2.) Harvard IEP

• 1 year program
  • 9 months = general survey/introduction to necessary skills, then back in the field a year earlier w/ more job prospects and the Harvard brand/network behind you?
  • Are 8 courses really enough to equip me to make a difference to communities I care about around the world, and to launch a career in this field?
  • The obvious. It's Harvard. Would I feel like a dumb dumb my whole life if I turned this opportunity down?
• Experience / Career Opportunities
  • Great access to Harvard's amazing resources on campus and opportunities at other schools and around Boston. Then again, I will only have 3 electives to utilize the cross-enrollment benefits.
  • Heavy course load coupled with during-term (likely non-credit, unpaid) internships and other responsibilities like student groups etc., which I will definitely want to be a part of to maximize my limited time there!
  • I have a weird feeling about some of the ways students & faculty have suggesting supplementing the short year. Things that are not included in tuition, like a 2 week prep course for the IEP cohort ($), student-led "study treks" to other countries over winter or spring break ($$... the one they link to on our premat website looks like it funded by a kickstarter? Or else students' paid out of pocket?), and taking additions courses not covered in tution ($$$). For me, I will already be in a black hole of debt, and I felt like I talked to a lot of current students or recent grads who described these kinds of things as "just another drop in the bucket." I guess I'm being naïve (duh, this is Harvard), but that kind of culture of privilege makes me pretty uncomfortable, and I will already feel stressed out trying to take advantage of ALL THE THINGS and not being able to work a paid job during the program.
  • Really great South Asian languages (if I could figure out how to take those classes?) and resources through Harvard's South Asia Institute!
  • Despite my reservations about the learning experience
• Boston
  • Obviously more diverse population and international opportunities. Still maybe not the orgs available in NYC or DC, but distance internships offered during each semester. Probably the most research / academia-related post-graduation opportunities in the area, should that be the route I want to go (but will I even know bc I will have hardly had any courses beyond intros??)
  • Expensive as heck. Student: "Expect to pay $1200/month to split a house with 4 other people." I live in DC, and thankfully my salary makes me comfortable enough (though just barely!) with the rent prices here, but these prices living a student lifestyle would probably drive me mad.
• Finances
  • $5000 grant IF I max out the $20500 federal loans offered. Which I will, because I will still have ~$42000 unmet needs after the fact. Altogether I will probably end up taking out a combo of federal loans & higher interest for a total of ~$35-40k loans when it's all said and done.
• Other logistics
  • 5 hour drive to Ithaca yay?!

 

 

That's the whole spiel! Whew, I'm sorry for the novella, guys. I'm also peripherally considering Penn's IEDP program, but its unclear format (if it's a 1.5 year program why is everyone scrambling to do it in 1?) and lack of student control in the internship placement have led me to kinda put it in on the backburner. Any and all thoughts on these options or my personal situation / commentary here would be much appreciated! Thanks all.

[SCGH]

It is a big decision.  I've posted a little bit around this here: 

 

The other thing I would say is you should also consider the composition of the student body.  I know someone who did her doctoral work at Peabody and felt like the climate was not welcoming for students of color (she's Asian American) and noticed that her time at HGSE was markedly different in that regard.

[NMB]

Thanks, @SCGH! Yeah, there are definitely some cultural issues I am concerned about / would have to get used to again (I've since lived in St. Louis, DC, and South & SE Asia... What would lil ole Tennessee feel like as an adult?)

 

I appreciate your points about cohort size & on-campus resources (HGSE's as essentially unparalleled). Are you a current student? Are you able to speak a bit to the expense -- both in terms of money, time and energy -- it takes to feel like you have maximized your year? For instance, did you participate in a study trek / otherwise fund & organize your own travel or research / feel financial or other pressure in enrolling in as many add-on prep courses, J-term classes and modules as possible?

 

I totally understand if these are details you would prefer to share via PM! Thanks so much for your help

[SCGH]

I didn't do any of the spring break treks as I had other personal commitments but I do know that the Colombia trek for example was approx. $1,000 (inclusive of airfare and hotel) for the 8 day experience. Some treks are subsidized others are budgeted (like the Colombia one) so as to minimize overall cost.

Regarding other opportunities, most of the on campus stuff is free for students. All the conferences, colloquia, fora, and symposia across all the Harvard schools are open to students. The HGSE budget also includes the J-term so there is no additional tuition to do one of those courses.

[NMB]

@SCGH really great to know about J-term, I didn't realize that! Thank you again for all your help!

[NMB]

In a fun new twist, I've just been offered the program GA position for Penn IEDP, which puts that option back on my radar with its funding now in range of the others and the opportunity to be a leader in the cohort/work closely with the core faculty.

 

If anyyyyboddyyy has thoughts on this tough decision that somehow keeps getting harder, I'd be eternally grateful!!!

[nashville0808]

This probably depends on what you want to do after the program. If you want to work at an international organization, I would suggest you consider Harvard and then UPenn. Harvard's brand and network (and probably UPENN) would help you a lot in terms of job hunting. Although this would not be in your choice, personally, Columbia's program (TC or SIPA) would be the best if you want to go to international organization. They have strong connections with international organizations and consulting companies which work for international organizations and governments. Vandy's placement is not so great. Very few students get a job related to international educational development. And their network is very weak.

 

In terms of the curriculum, at Vandy, you will gain good quantitative analysis/research skills, which are not focused on international education so may not be interesting but will expand your job options (there are many jobs in the US education sector which require quantitative skills). However, they are weak in content. There are few region-specific courses or topic-specific courses (e.g., human rights, child labor, conflicts, gender, etc.). If you are more interested in content, you may get disappointed with Vandy.

 

In terms of diversity within Vandy's program, according to my friends, one half of the students are Americans and the other half international students, most of whom are Chinese students without any working experience. This won't give you a chance to expand your job options around the world. I guess the student body is more diverse at Harvard and UPenn.  I often hear that students of color feel uncomfortable at Vandy. I'm not sure what kind of experience they had but a lot of students and most of the faculty members are White.

[NMB]

Thanks, @nashville0808! That's some really valuable insight. So you are a current student at Vanderbilt, and you have discovered this weak course content from experience? What program are you in, and what kind of work are you looking to do after you graduate?

Again, I have no direct intent to work for large international development organizations, but I do see the value of a program with a good reputation and placement records in those contexts. I'm very open to where my studies might take me, though I do have specific regions and topics dear to my heart, like equitable access for nomadic populations & within traditional societies, and for refugees. I most likely see myself on the ground in a Himalayan region (I've studied/worked in India, Nepal, Bhutan, and northern Thailand -- Sikkim is particularly special to me) doing community-level work with schools or research with local organizations, whatever I discover is the most effective way for me to support the places and people I care about. Or alternatively working in the US with organizations that support immigrants and refugees from those regions. My past teaching experiences cover all age ranges, but I really miss working with kids. And the policy / quantitative end of this work is exactly why I'm pursuing this degree -- these are skills I lack and would like to gain, and if I love that kind of work I hope to be able to pursue it with further study.

Until Penn's assistantship offer, I had been leaning heavily towards Vanderbilt. But what you have to say here -- especially coming from a current student -- really makes me second guess that inclination. I had been thinking 2 years was going to be a better learning experience and cover necessary topics more satisfactorily, but maybe not so. Ahhh, now I really have no idea what I will choose!

Edited April 12, 2015 by NMB

[nashville0808]

Personally, I think a two-year program is much better than a one-year program. Even at Harvard or UPenn, if you just take 8 courses, you won't learn very much. The benefit of going to Harvard or UPenn would be its brand name and strong network. At Vanderbilt, you will take 12 courses, which is still not so many, plus summer internship, which probably you have to find by yourself. You may get some help from the program faculty members.

 

Hearing from my friends, I think Vanderbilt does not offer any courses specific to regions you are interested in. This may change, as the program plans to hire a new faculty member this fall. She says that one candidate has been working on multiple projects in Afghanistan and focuses on education in emergency context, which may be close to what you are interested in. There is no guarantee that this candidate will come to Vandy from this fall. 

[NMB]

Thanks again, @nashville0808. Yes, my original inclination (that I'm still leaning towards) is that a longer program + time in class after a practicum experience is the best way to do it. I wish that it worked out that Penn's 1.5 years was realistic, instead of totally financially unfeasible.

 

I'm lucky in that I already have connections to an organization on the ground in Sikkim that would be open to hosting me next summer. Also, a former Humphrey's Fellow at Peabody works at the Ministry of Education in a Tibetan region of China, and the IEPM faculty have suggested I could do my internship there. This is the unprecedented access I mentioned. I really don't think there would be a way for me to work in Tibet otherwise. It is true that the program does not help coordinate funding, however.

 

I am concerned about the lack of region-centric coursework, but I've talked to current and past students with similar areas of interest that have effectively addressed their regional interests in the context of broader topical coursework. I would obviously still prefer to have some official specialization / faculty connection to that end.

 

And interesting to hear this rumor further confirmed! I knew they were looking to hire someone from NYU, and it's exciting to hear who exactly that may be. It does sound pretty shaky whether or not this will happen, though.

 

Thank you again for everything, @nashville0808! I would still love to hear about your own studies / personal experiences at Peabody, if you want to continue this discussion via PM!

[grad16-17]

On 4/2/2015 at 6:04 PM, NMB said:

2.) Harvard IEP

• Boston
  • Obviously more diverse population and international opportunities. Still maybe not the orgs available in NYC or DC, but distance internships offered during each semester. Probably the most research / academia-related post-graduation opportunities in the area, should that be the route I want to go (but will I even know bc I will have hardly had any courses beyond intros??)
  • Expensive as heck. Student: "Expect to pay $1200/month to split a house with 4 other people." I live in DC, and thankfully my salary makes me comfortable enough (though just barely!) with the rent prices here, but these prices living a student lifestyle would probably drive me mad.
• Finances
  • $5000 grant IF I max out the $20500 federal loans offered. Which I will, because I will still have ~$42000 unmet needs after the fact. Altogether I will probably end up taking out a combo of federal loans & higher interest for a total of ~$35-40k loans when it's all said and done.
• Other logistics
  • 5 hour drive to Ithaca yay?!

 

 

That's the whole spiel! Whew, I'm sorry for the novella, guys. I'm also peripherally considering Penn's IEDP program, but its unclear format (if it's a 1.5 year program why is everyone scrambling to do it in 1?) and lack of student control in the internship placement have led me to kinda put it in on the backburner. Any and all thoughts on these options or my personal situation / commentary here would be much appreciated! Thanks all.

With this kind of rent prices, how do young families moving up there for grad school get by???

Suggestions of rental areas please.

[day_manderly]

On 15/05/2016 at 2:07 PM, grad16-17 said:

With this kind of rent prices, how do young families moving up there for grad school get by???

Suggestions of rental areas please.

Are the rent prices really that high?! That seems insane. And what does a 'house for 4 people' mean, anyway?..

[Levon3]

3 hours ago, day_manderly said:

Are the rent prices really that high?! That seems insane. And what does a 'house for 4 people' mean, anyway?..

Yes. That's a typical price for sharing a 4-bedroom house with 3 other grad students.

[Vulpix]

I disagree about the cost being $1200 to split a house.  I have definitely seen rooms in 3-4 bedrooms in different parts of Boston/Cambridge for $700-900, utilities vary.  Same goes for NYC.  You just have to look in different neighborhoods.

Edited May 16, 2016 by Heather1011

[day_manderly]

56 minutes ago, Heather1011 said:

I disagree about the cost being $1200 to split a house.  I have definitely seen rooms in 3-4 bedrooms in different parts of Boston/Cambridge for $700-900, utilities vary.  Same goes for NYC.  You just have to look in different neighborhoods.

Yes, but what do you mean by 'different neighborhoods'? Would the price of $700 mean one lives in a really bad neighborhood which is far away from the campus?

[Vulpix]

6 hours ago, day_manderly said:

Yes, but what do you mean by 'different neighborhoods'? Would the price of $700 mean one lives in a really bad neighborhood which is far away from the campus?

Not necessarily.  It depends on what school/where the campus is. There are good neighborhoods that are cheap because they are far away, but they are still very safe and "good".  There are also good deals in many pockets.

[grad16-17]

So how are families pulling this off?  So estimate a 2 bedroom home in an okay, not fancy but safe area to be how much?

[ZWP]

Hi everyone,

I was just wondering how everyone’s choices turned out. I’m trying to decide between the IEP program at Harvard, the CIDE program at UMinn and the IEDP program at UPenn.

I’ve had a fair amount of work experience in international education from the nonprofit and NGO perspective, and domestic experience with preschool and early cuildhod education as a teacher, and am most interested in concentrating on ECE and community development in developing and unstable contexts domestically and internationally. 

Specifically, I’m hoping to strength my data analysis skills, learn and develop cooperative and sustainable community education models, and build connections for future school initiatives in the US.

Any advice you have about your experiences or choices would be much appreciated! 

Edited April 7, 2018 by ZWP
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[memphismocha]

 @ZWPI'm also deciding between Vandy MPP and HGSE HDP. I'm leaning towards Harvard right now. My main worry is how fast the program is and whether it will afford me enough time to truly strengthen my research, data analysis and quant skills. At this point in time, I am interested in pursuing a Phd. My thought is that I will look for a research position/fellowship at Harvard or in Boston after grad school, and apply to doctoral programs during that first year. I wonder if HGSE will give me enough of a boost in those "hard" quant skills that I lack (I've been teaching since I graduated from college-- with a degree in literature, lol) that I will be a competitive candidate for a research position that first year out and phd programs. Idk...it's a big choice...that we have 6 days to make lol. Best of luck with your decision making process, and feel free to DM me or respond here to keep discussing the pros/cons of both options given our specific interests/situations!  

[Megtheexploradora]

Hello! I'm deciding between these two programs for very similar reasons! I was wondering how the final decision went and what the outcome was? I would love any additional insight! 

[kismetcapitan]

Two years versus one makes a big difference. I honestly don't know how one can really gain true expertise in such a complicated field with a 9 month program that's essentially a comparative overview. That being said, Vanderbilt does spend quite a bit of time in the first year requiring you to master the skills required for research (i.e. stats). You don't need to be an expert in how research data comes to conclusions to argue policy, but if research/PhD is in your future, or if you simply want the skills to know if your data is on point or misleading, then the painful process of passing 1st year statistics at Vanderbilt is worth its weight in gold.