Cool geography programs

[keylimekai]

Hi all, first post here...cool forum y'all have.

I am an Environmental Studies major coming out of undergrad at Macalester College in St. Paul (high GPA, great LORs). I'm currently looking into PhD programs in Geography, and am looking for some advice...

1. Do you know of any programs that have great reputations for nature-society geography? Already looking into Minnesota, Madison, Berkeley, Arizona...

2. Is there any reason I should be hesitant to apply to grad school straight out of undergrad? Are these schools comparable to my stats? Am I ok w/o an MA?

Obviously, this involves a lot more than these numbers (looking for good adviser matches, POS, etc.), but I just want some reassurance that I'm not aiming too high.

More info:

GPA 3.75, 3.9 in the last two years of undergrad

Research/writing - two summer research positions (one for professor, one independent), pursuing honors project

GRE testing V:~700, Q:~650-700

Thanks!

[JNGD25]

For nature/society or human/environment geography you should certainly check out Rutgers and possibly Clark.

[rising_star]

You may also want to consider Georgia, Syracuse, Berkeley, UCLA, Washington, Kentucky, Michigan State, and CUNY.

However, almost all of the geography programs in the country will NOT admit you into the PhD program without a MA. So, for example, at Arizona, you apply for the MA program and then when you finish you can be admitted into the PhD program without reapplying. Clark is a notable exception to this, and I think Syracuse as well but I can't remember. Geography is different in that basically every program we've listed offers funding to MA students, so there's no real reason to apply straight to the PhD. You can still finish both in 5 years if you're ambitious and work really hard.

[JNGD25]

That's a good point about most of the programs not letting you into the PhD program without an MA. There are a few exceptions though including Clark and Rutgers. I'm not sure about Syracuse.

The programs listed by the previous poster are well worth checking out. I've heard a few people say that UCLA isn't as good for human/environment as most of their faculty are either purely physical or purely human geographers but I don't know enough about their department to say for sure.

[keylimekai]

Awesome, this is helpful. I hadn't heard that there is funding for MA programs...I know that some of the ones I listed (Arizona, Minnesota) have the MA - PhD feeder thing, so it's good to hear I won't be left on a limb like most MAs I've heard about. I know that Berkeley no longer has an MA program though, and *sometimes* admits students w/o MAs, so I'm hoping I have some luck there.

[rising_star]

The other thing is that you can do your MA at one school and do your PhD elsewhere and that's not a huge deal. It's what I did, mainly because my research interests changed. Given your interests, you may also want to look into Ohio State, UT-Austin, Texas A&M (also has NSF-IGERT in Applied Biodiversity Science), and some of the MA-only programs like Miami (OH) and Miami (FL).

Berkeley's funding situation is crap. It was crap even before the current budget crisis in California and within the UC system. Arizona's financial situation is as bad as California's but receives less publicity. The department has also had big cohorts for the past two years , so I imagine that their admissions will be down this cycle. To some degree Minnesota and UW-Madison are rebuilding their programs and have had some issues with faculty things so make sure to talk to graduate students and visit if you get in to get a feel for the place. Just some things to keep in mind.

Some of your narrowing down will come from making decisions about your region of interest. Some regions are better supported at schools than others are and you'll want to have the most language and area studies support you can get.

[keylimekai]

Thanks for the recommendations. The programs I listed are based entirely on faculty whose work I love/who I have connections to through undergrad advisers (faculty in question are Jake Kosek at Berkeley, Bruce Braun at Mn, Bill Cronon at Wis, Paul Robbins at Arizona). Also forgot to mention I'm looking at Oxford w/Sarah Whatmore. I'm hoping to put off the money questions until after I apply...but we'll see.

As far as region of interest, I have an American studies focus in undergrad, and would like to keep that up. With the environmental studies background, I tend to veer more towards the critical theory/poststructuralist end of geography (sometimes political ecology...). Maybe this narrows things down as far as programs go. I'll do some research on this list.

[JNGD25]

If you're interested in the more critical/post-structural side of things that definitely narrows the search for you. There are some departments what would be a great fit for you and some that won't. The three that jump out for me when I hear that are Clark, Arizona and Rutgers. Rutgers is the one I would know most about. There are 3 good faculty there with a strong critical/post-structuralist/political ecology background. Clark was once THE place to go for that type of stuff but I've heard people say it probably isn't as strong on that aspect of things as it once was. Still well worth checking out though.

I'd also recommend you look at the list of current grad students in each program. That will give you a feel for whether there are others with similar research interests there so that you would have a community to fit into. Obviosuly it's also a good idea to visit and talk to current grad students once you have a short list of where you intend to apply to.

[rising_star]

For critical theory, Kentucky leaps to mind, as does Univ of Georgia.

[keylimekai]

Thanks, yeah I've heard similar things about Clark but I definitely need to take a harder look at Rutgers...they sound pretty solid.

[rising_star]

The program at Rutgers is very much an Africa-oriented one in terms of where research occurs. When I was considering applying there, a current Rutgers (now graduated) told me that anyone that doesn't do research on Africa is a bit of a pariah/outcast.

[JNGD25]

What?

As a current Rutgers student I can say that's absolutely not the case. Either things have changed an awful lot since you spoke to this person or their perception wasn't exactly accurate!

Of the students doing human environment work now there are more working in the US than in Africa. There are four members of the graduate faculty in geography who are political ecologists, two work in Africa, but the remaining two work in the US and Asia. There are currently students working in Europe, Asia the US and South America.

To suggest that anyone not working in Africa is an outcast or a pariah is just not true. In fact I'd have to say this is a very open and inclusive department. Nobody is a pariah for any reason, especially not on the basis of where they want to do their research.

[rising_star]

JNGD, I talked to that person in Fall 2007, as I was applying to PhD programs. I wouldn't completely discount something that someone told me, nor am I discounting what you said. I'm just making the OP aware of these things so that s/he can decide for him/herself.

And while I'm at it, I should mention that Minnesota was having some serious problems the past few years but I don't know if they've been worked out.

[JNGD25]

Well as is the case with everything when you're applying for PhD programs (or most things in life for that matter) the OP and anyone else should check things out for themselves rather than relying on what others say.

I have been in the Rutgers program since before 2007 and I can say that what you said wasn't an accurate reflection on the program then or now. My apologies if I come over as strong on this but I'm just a little shocked at the language you used. Pariah is a strong word and given that this is possibly the most inclusive and welcoming place that I've ever experienced (I'm genuinely not exaggerating when I say that) I find it a bit over the top. I say this as someone who does research in a place that certainly isn't Africa. While Rutgers has a strong Center for African Studies and it would be a good place for someone with an interest in doing research there, I think there may only be three or four grad students in geography currently working in Africa. No one region dominates the department at present.

In any event the person who told you this (assuming they were giving an accurate reflection of their experience) must be reflecting a time that has long since passed. A quick look at the lists of faculty and grad student research will show this.

I don't intend to come across as an uncritical cheerleader for Rutgers but I can't let things that are clearly not accurate pass without comment.

[keylimekai]

JNGD25, do you have any recommendations of faculty I should contact based on my interests outlined above?

[JNGD25]

Based on what you said about your research interests I would recommend St. Martin, Birkenholtz and Schroeder. They are all political ecologists and I think all of them would all be open to students with an interest in critical/postructural approaches.

They are each at different stages of their careers. Schroeder has been here a long time and is well established. He does his research in Africa. St. Martin has had tenure for a few years now so is also well established. He works in the north east of the US. Birkenholtz is in his third year here. He works in Asia and is a former student of Paul Robbins.

There are also two others on the graduate faculty who would identify themselves as political ecologists (Hughes and McDermott) but I don't know as much about them. They are based on the Department of Human Ecology but are members of the graduate faculty in geography.

St. Martin and Birkenholtz might be a slightly better fit for your interests but really any one of the three should be good for you to contact.

You should be able to find a lot more info on each of them from the department website.

Best of luck with it.

[92nats]

Hey Keylimekai,

I just wanted to throw another set of subjective conjecture at you about this decision. I do believe that both Rutgers and Arizona would be wonderful places for you to end up. If you are interested in folks like Robbins, Braun, and Kosek, I will throw some additional folks at you who might excite your poststructural nature-society ambitions:

Kevin St. Martin and Trevor Birkenholtz at Rutgers, Jody Emel and Dianne Rocheleau at Clark, Joel Wainwright at OSU, Joe Bryan at Colorado, Lucy Jarosz at Washington, Trevor Barnes and Karen Bakker at UBC, Wendy Wolford and John Pickles at UNC, and Cindi Katz at CUNY.

What rising_star says is true about funding being messed up at Berkeley and Arizona. Funding is also messed up at CUNY and while it has its big names, it is a seriously underfunded program and it has proven difficult for some to get through it with all the traveling out to remote campuses throughout the boroughs to do teaching jobs that you have to shank one another to get. The city is crazy expensive and everyone is way too busy for there to be a very strong collegial community there. I have also heard recently from two sources that Minnesota still suffers from some internal boloney that makes being a student there a drag. If anyone out there can refute that, please do because I don't want to be disparaging, but I don't want to encourage folks to go there if it's a hard place to be still. Kentucky does have this social theory component, but a lot of that was the baby of JP Jones and John Pickles who are at Arizona and UNC now, respectively. It might still have a lot to offer someone with your interests, but you'd have to look at who is there.

To attempt an answer at some of your other questions: No, you aren't aiming too high. Many of these programs have different rules for entering without a MA. CUNY says that they will accept you without one, but there is also the MA only program at Hunter and I am not sure what the crossover is there. Hunter does not seem to have any poststructuralist nature-society people though. Perhaps Marianna Pavlovskaya would be a good person to work with, but her interests do not seem to thoroughly cover nature-society stuff. And I am sure that the funding situation at Hunter is worse than at the CUNY Grad Center, so... Another question you had was whether or not going straight to a PhD program was advisable. I would say that some admissions committees might be skeptical of you being sure it is what you want to do for the next six years, so you might have to prove that. On a personal level, you might want to ask yourself that question and think about the MA programs that risingstar threw out. They would be a great way to make sure you're doing what you want while also making you more competitive when you apply again for PhDs. But even if you decide to do that and then end up in an MA program that also has a good PhD program, you might have a better chance at getting in and knowing what you want to do and who you want to work with.

Good luck

[keylimekai]

This is extremely helpful. Thanks a lot to 92nats and JNGD25. If it is indeed true that I can get funding for an MA geography program (or a feeder program) then I am much less hesitant to go that route. If there are indeed problems at the U of MN, Arizona, or a number of these other schools, I can always complete my PhD elsewhere.

I am not shooting for CUNY under any circumstances...Although the faculty and program look amazing, I'm a small town kid, and New York scares me.

[rising_star]

You can definitely get funding for the MA, just check the school's website before applying. And, while you can go elsewhere for the PhD, you also want to make sure you get the best master's experience you can.

[pea-jay]

Berkeley's funding situation is crap. It was crap even before the current budget crisis in California and within the UC system.

Wow, and to think I was actually considering applying there a few years back. Geography can be the unwanted child of some universities. My undergrad was Geography. My university only had four FT professors and 1-3 adjunct faculty members that taught a course or two a semester. Although there were only 36 of us in the cohort, we were often shut out of our own classes because they gave Education Majors priority registration to some Geo classes. I graduated with the minimum of Geo classes and wound up taking a second minor to meet the university graduation requirements. I mean, WTF is wrong with that picture??