Is there a different standard between domestic & international applicants for admission?

[coollyboy]

I'm an international student and recently consulted one of the professors about

which graduate school will I be able to apply with present status(gpa, gre, toelf etc.).

I have e-mailed to graduate schools(ranked about 30~50) to get the information about the average scores of successful applicants

and confirmed that my status is just around average(disregard of sop etc.).

However, the professor said that the average scores I received are related to mainly on domestic applicants

and scores of international applicants can be somewhat higher in gre(except in writing), gpa.

I was depressed when he said that I wouldn't be able to receive admission offer from "University of xxx" level of school.

Is the admission standard different from domestic to international applicants?

 

[shinigamiasuka]

Yes, the standards and expectations are quite different.

 

From my limited knowledge:

There's an international pool, and there's a domestic pool of applications. In the international pool you have applicants from all kinds of universities, with different grading systems. The admissions office needs to sort out the top applications from among this, which is actually a lot of work. In engineering, it's usual for the average successful international applicant to have higher Q scores and lower V and AWA scores compared to the average domestic student. As for GPA, there's more to it than that; the reputation of your undergrad school in your country matters (may not always be the case, but a lot of time it does), so does your place/rank/percentile in your graduating class. For domestic applicants, they have a better idea of the undergrad schools and how well the students do, and how they compare to their university. And yes, the GPA (as far as I've seen) of the average successful domestic student is slightly lower than their international counterparts. Stress on "slightly" because the ones getting in with lower GPAs are very few in number compared to the higher ones.

[TakeruK]

There is a difference and while I think a lot of what shinigamiasuka says is true, I do not think this is the main reason why there is a different standard. For example, I was told the same thing and I'm from Canada, where our education system is pretty much identical to the United States.

 

The main reason for a different standard is because at most public US schools, the tuition rate for international students is about 3 or 4 times more expensive than the tuition rate for domestic students (although our stipends would be the same). This ultimately results in the total cost of an international student to be around 2 to 3 times more than a domestic student. The reason for the tuition rate difference is that public schools are funded by the government (taxes) and Americans pay taxes towards this while international people like us do not.

 

This means that public schools often have a low rate of international students. In most US schools, this is around 10% or lower. So, if a school is accepting 40 students, there would be only 4 international student spots. As an international applicant, this means we would have to be in the top 4 of the international pool to get in (but if we were American, we just have to be in the top 36). 

 

Then, on top of this, certain schools, especially the University of California schools, are very very popular with international students. I know one professor who worked there and he said that 75% of their applications are from international students!! But only 10% of their spots are awarded to international students. The entire world is very big, it's much harder to be the top 4 applicants in the entire world than the top 36 from the United States. 

 

When I applied to US grad schools, my mentors told me that while I should still try for the University of California schools, I should apply to more private schools because tuition there is the same for everyone and thus there is no difference in cost! And they were right--I got into some top private universities but rejected from all of the University of California schools (even ones that are supposedly less competitive than my current school). At my current private school, the international student population is around 45% !! Much larger than 10%.  

 

Therefore, my advice to international students with strong profiles is to focus mostly on the top private schools and/or apply to a very large number of schools because the chances of getting in is much lower for international people like us!

[coollyboy]

//TakeruK/ /shinigamiasuka/  Thank you both for valuable information. I guess I have to try out for more private schools than public schools. 

[SymmetryOfImperfection]

There is a difference and while I think a lot of what shinigamiasuka says is true, I do not think this is the main reason why there is a different standard. For example, I was told the same thing and I'm from Canada, where our education system is pretty much identical to the United States.

 

The main reason for a different standard is because at most public US schools, the tuition rate for international students is about 3 or 4 times more expensive than the tuition rate for domestic students (although our stipends would be the same). This ultimately results in the total cost of an international student to be around 2 to 3 times more than a domestic student. The reason for the tuition rate difference is that public schools are funded by the government (taxes) and Americans pay taxes towards this while international people like us do not.

 

This means that public schools often have a low rate of international students. In most US schools, this is around 10% or lower. So, if a school is accepting 40 students, there would be only 4 international student spots. As an international applicant, this means we would have to be in the top 4 of the international pool to get in (but if we were American, we just have to be in the top 36). 

 

Then, on top of this, certain schools, especially the University of California schools, are very very popular with international students. I know one professor who worked there and he said that 75% of their applications are from international students!! But only 10% of their spots are awarded to international students. The entire world is very big, it's much harder to be the top 4 applicants in the entire world than the top 36 from the United States. 

 

When I applied to US grad schools, my mentors told me that while I should still try for the University of California schools, I should apply to more private schools because tuition there is the same for everyone and thus there is no difference in cost! And they were right--I got into some top private universities but rejected from all of the University of California schools (even ones that are supposedly less competitive than my current school). At my current private school, the international student population is around 45% !! Much larger than 10%.  

 

Therefore, my advice to international students with strong profiles is to focus mostly on the top private schools and/or apply to a very large number of schools because the chances of getting in is much lower for international people like us!

 

+1. You can get into MUCH better privates with the same score, than you would in public schools. I'm talking like, you can jump from a top 40's public, to a top 20's private. That's how big the difference is. There are some publics that aren't so bad (UIUC, Minnesota) and then there's some that are pretty much impossible (all the UCs).

[Crafter]

There is a difference and while I think a lot of what shinigamiasuka says is true, I do not think this is the main reason why there is a different standard. For example, I was told the same thing and I'm from Canada, where our education system is pretty much identical to the United States.

 

The main reason for a different standard is because at most public US schools, the tuition rate for international students is about 3 or 4 times more expensive than the tuition rate for domestic students (although our stipends would be the same). This ultimately results in the total cost of an international student to be around 2 to 3 times more than a domestic student. The reason for the tuition rate difference is that public schools are funded by the government (taxes) and Americans pay taxes towards this while international people like us do not.

 

This means that public schools often have a low rate of international students. In most US schools, this is around 10% or lower. So, if a school is accepting 40 students, there would be only 4 international student spots. As an international applicant, this means we would have to be in the top 4 of the international pool to get in (but if we were American, we just have to be in the top 36). 

 

Then, on top of this, certain schools, especially the University of California schools, are very very popular with international students. I know one professor who worked there and he said that 75% of their applications are from international students!! But only 10% of their spots are awarded to international students. The entire world is very big, it's much harder to be the top 4 applicants in the entire world than the top 36 from the United States. 

 

When I applied to US grad schools, my mentors told me that while I should still try for the University of California schools, I should apply to more private schools because tuition there is the same for everyone and thus there is no difference in cost! And they were right--I got into some top private universities but rejected from all of the University of California schools (even ones that are supposedly less competitive than my current school). At my current private school, the international student population is around 45% !! Much larger than 10%.  

 

Therefore, my advice to international students with strong profiles is to focus mostly on the top private schools and/or apply to a very large number of schools because the chances of getting in is much lower for international people like us!

 

You said it all!!

 

That happened to me. I do not have a super brilliant profile, but I am a strong candidate overall. Yet, I did not know about the whole public/private issues and naively applied to 8 public schools and only 2 private schools. Obviously, I was admitted to a private school while every single public school rejected me. On those public schools I had contacted faculty before applying and they encouraged me to apply and said that my profile was strong and that they would be interested in taking me as a student in their labs. After rejection, I contacted them and explained. They said that the rejection was most likely because of funding and because the very limited spots for international students.

 

So I always advise international applicants to try private schools over public schools. Or large programs on public schools.

[AD]

holy crap### I just applied to public schools only...not even a single private school....just gambled few lakhs for application it seems....:-(

 

[biochemistry professor]

Yes, much more difficult for intl students because of lack of recognition of international schools outside of top 20 schools such as Oxford, Cambridge, etc. We also get many students from developing countries who turn out to be complete busts because of the poor preparation they received in their home country or failure to adjust to cultural differences.

[Luptior]

Question:

How about international students with US degrees?

[TakeruK]

41 minutes ago, Luptior said:

Question:

How about international students with US degrees?

An international student with a US degree will have a higher chance of their school/program being known to their grad program, have a curriculum closer to what US programs expect (e.g. research experience) and a higher chance of making connections with US grad programs, etc. So the disadvantages mentioned above related to these factors are mostly diminished.

However, the much bigger factor is the tuition difference between domestic and international students. As an international student with a US degree, you're just as expensive as an international student with a foreign degree. Perhaps there are some states that are exceptions, but I don't know of any state where an international person can gain state residency and access the cheaper tuition even if they have already been in the country for many years.