Fall 2016 Applicants

[radredhead]

10 minutes ago, Neist said:

I've wondered this as well. If anyone has an answer to this, I'd be very interested in hearing it.

Decent FAQ on the federal website:

http://loanconsolidation.ed.gov/help/faq.html

But this is especially good information for graduate students:

4. Can I consolidate a PLUS Loan?

Yes, PLUS Loans can be consolidated into a Direct Consolidation Loan. However, if you consolidate a parent PLUS loan, your new Direct Consolidation Loan cannot be repaid under the IBR Plan.

It's hard to afford an MA without the PLUS loan. Hopefully PhD candidates are luckier!

 

[bosie_dearest]

Guys, seriously, is it that hard to post civilly about, of all things, an acceptance? This sort of tone makes us all look like assholes

[rococo_realism]

Has anyone else made a decision about where s/he's going? I'm kind of having a hard time with making a decision, and decision day is looming on the horizon!

[Mirrorical_Return]

2 hours ago, radredhead said:

Ah, ok, I see the main issue with @Mirrorical_Return's scenario - he is assuming that the loans are coming from post July 1, 2014. If you are a new borrower from after this period, then yes it's possible you could get an IBR rate with a salary of ~45k. However, seeing as this is grad school, it's very likely a lot of people on this forum already have taken out loans for their undergraduate education, and therefore will not qualify in that hypothetical. I'm not sure if the "new" loans would be charged 226 & the old ones a non-IBR rate--making your monthly payment still much higher than quoted--or if consolidating all the loans into one gives you that post-July 1 2014 estimate. I consolidated my loans in 2015 and was still given IBR consideration based on the original date the loans were taken out, which took me out of qualification in my latest tax bracket. So, again, this is a question for the lender and not a message forum.

I am assuming that, yes, especially because it's 2016 and I'm mostly addressing new admits, due to the thread we're in. 
I also addressed the issue of taking out federal loans as an undergrad in a previous post and how those who did not take out such loans are in a luckier position.
Once again, I'm sorry for your financial plight and anyone else in such a situation. 

[betsy303]

1 hour ago, bosie_dearest said:

Guys, seriously, is it that hard to post civilly about, of all things, an acceptance? This sort of tone makes us all look like assholes

Oh God. This person hasn't even chosen an ivy yet and already has the "ivy attitude." :/

[unanachronism]

Hi all! I'm a longtime lurker and now emerging looking for help making my decision. @rococo_realism, what are your decision issues?

 

My problem is mainly taking an MA and hoping to improve my PhD prospects, versus taking one of the good PhD offers I have now. 

[betsy303]

1 hour ago, unanachronism said:

Hi all! I'm a longtime lurker and now emerging looking for help making my decision. @rococo_realism, what are your decision issues?

 

My problem is mainly taking an MA and hoping to improve my PhD prospects, versus taking one of the good PhD offers I have now. 

Feel free to PM me. I have strong feelings about it. At the end of the day, if your goal is to work at a bigger tier museum or 4 year college institution, your chances of success are higher at a top 20-ish institution. Though, I have seen many cases (advisor/program specific) where this doesn't play out. I think something also to note is the cost of attendance. This will still get you networked. If you are forking over 100K+ living expenses and tuition for a MA, you may be better off setting aside a 10-20k cushion to fund your own conference presentations, research, etc. Again, a lot of programs that don't make the top 10 (especially in the 20 group) are not up there due to funding issues. Also, many "lesser prestige" programs may have other departments that are fairly top notch. My program is probably at around 15-20 (albeit it hasn't been re-evalauted since a lot of new hires and books came out), but my institution does have a top 5 English and history department (both disciplines are super related to my research). 

[unanachronism]

I'm 100% not going to take out any debt, I hope... I am coming straight out of undergrad debt free and have several fully-funded offers.

The MAs I am considering are funded and pretty "high ranked." I have a top 15-20, solidly stipended PhD offer, but I don't know if I could do better if I reapply after the MA... .

Funding is the secondary issue to whether I should take a good offer now, or work longer to get an even better one....

[rococo_realism]

@unanachronism I'm simply having a hard time deciding if I simply want to get an M.A., work for a while, and, maybe, get a Ph.D., or just go into a Ph.D. program now. I'm not really soliciting advice; I'm just whining, lol. Just seeking commiseration.

Edited March 23, 2016 by rococo_realism

[m-artman]

14 hours ago, unanachronism said:

Hi all! I'm a longtime lurker and now emerging looking for help making my decision. @rococo_realism, what are your decision issues?

 

My problem is mainly taking an MA and hoping to improve my PhD prospects, versus taking one of the good PhD offers I have now. 

This is my problem. I'm still waiting for my MA offers to come through with their funding packages. If it's terrible, then I'll just take the PhD offer that I have and run with it.

Edited March 23, 2016 by m-artman
Spelling is hard.

[radredhead]

@unanachronism I got advice the other day to always do a PhD over an MA. I personally applied to MAs because I don't know if a PhD is right for me in the long run, as my goals are to work in art spaces or museums over academia, but definitely in terms of funding and avoiding debt, it's the better way to go. Another suggestion is that you could take that spot in the PhD program if it also offers a MA, and once you have secured that, transfer to a higher-ranked PhD program. Apparently it's very common? I have no idea if that's unprofessional or not, but it was advice given to me by multiple people.

[unanachronism]

 

2 hours ago, radredhead said:

@unanachronism I got advice the other day to always do a PhD over an MA. I personally applied to MAs because I don't know if a PhD is right for me in the long run, as my goals are to work in art spaces or museums over academia, but definitely in terms of funding and avoiding debt, it's the better way to go. Another suggestion is that you could take that spot in the PhD program if it also offers a MA, and once you have secured that, transfer to a higher-ranked PhD program. Apparently it's very common? I have no idea if that's unprofessional or not, but it was advice given to me by multiple people.

I was kinda told the opposite last night talking to a couple of professors... I don't know if they are "biased" because they are highly successful profs at a top university, but they were seeming to advise me that if I want to be really, really successful, I ought to go do the MA first (as long as it's funded) so I can go to a top-5 school. I don't know how much the pinnacle of prestige means to me in the long term, and looking at job prospectives in the future. I know I want a PhD eventually.... Blargh....

I've heard of the ole switcheroo but does that not burn bridges at your first school?

[betsy303]

Do the MA if you don't have at least broader sense of what your research interests are. This top 5, 10, prestige game is utterly atrocious. I couldn't go to a top 5, and potentially a 10, simply because those programs do not have specialists in my area. The 2 that did - one prof is no longer accepting students and one won't for another 5-7 years. Hence, you can't always put your life on hold, take out debt, etc for something that may or may not happen. Applying to programs with faculty who could create  interesting multidisciplinary thesis committee should be the top priority. 

[bosie_dearest]

As far as the "switcheroo" goes, I've talked to a few people who've done it, and they said not only did they basically have to start from scratch at their new institution, but they do not have good relationships with the places they came from. All of them were basically forced to transfer because of advisor issues (moving, retiring, etc), so I've never known anyone to basically take two years at a program just to have to do them again at another program voluntarily. Essentially, getting an MA only takes a few credits off your PhD course load, as far as I've heard, so it's definitely not the most efficient choice and would be VERY hard to pull off without burning bridges... If you're being accepted into a program to complete a PhD, you're expected to complete the PhD -- few programs will offer you a terminal masters at the end of your second year to discourage this very thing. I can't imagine getting letters of rec would be easy, either, because if I were a professor I'd feel very slighted and taken advantage of if one of my students was using my program as a stepping-stone to a "better" one. But again, maybe I've just happened to meet all the people who think this is a terrible idea and none of the ones who've pulled it off successfully. 

[BRead_JAm]

This is very painful to accept, but I guess I didn't make it to any of the schools that I have applied... 

Devastated, but nothing that I can do about it. 

I'll still try to re-apply next year. Hopefully I can add better things in my application. 

Good luck to everyone. 

[welshforjohn]

Has anyone heard back about BU's master's program? I still haven't heard back and I'm getting very impatient. Last year someone wasn't accepted until April 10 though, so maybe BU just takes FOREVER to get back to master's applicants.

Also, I called Penn last week and found out I've been rejected, yet I haven't received any official email or notification from them. I looked at previous years and it seems they have a reputation for this? Strange since Penn had the earliest deadline out of the programs I applied to. CUNY was by far the quickest in getting back. Although I was rejected, I respect their efficiency.

@Pie_art I'm sorry to hear that, but good luck in re-applying next year! You sound intelligent and hard-working, so I'm sure you can do it!

[bosie_dearest]

15 hours ago, betsy303 said:

Do the MA if you don't have at least broader sense of what your research interests are. 

@unanachronism and @radredhead this ^^ is such good advice, and it doesn't just extend to "well, I know I like contemporary feminist art" or whatever your AOI is -- it means that you're familiar with how your research interests fit into the larger field of art history, what critical and theoretical approaches you want to take (including their common flaws and how to defend/ameliorate them), and who in the field is best suited to help you with your project. Moreover, I personally would caution against going into a PhD program without absolute certainty that that's what you want to be doing and that's the degree you need. A PhD program is going to be, realistically, around seven years of extremely difficult work, between four and five of which will be basically self-directed. If you're not totally self-motivated and driven to complete your degree (especially if the career you want to pursue only requires an MA), the vantage point from year three to the end of a 200-page dissertation at year five or seven might look challenging -- not to mention unpleasant. Besides, you'll have to hang out with jerks like me who've drunk the academia kool-aid and want nothing more than to aggressively slog through seven years of a PhD program!

[radredhead]

@bosie_dearest you've had very great advice! I've been mixed because I have a pretty specific subject I'd like to study, but I very strongly want to go into curating / programming. My sights are on alternative art spaces more than traditional museums, as well. It's a shame, though, that MAs don't offer the living stipend a PhD program does. Even though a few programs did offer me TAships, they barely pay anything & I think I'm going to have to take out loans to supplement the cost of living :/

Edited March 24, 2016 by radredhead

[Little-bird]

Off topic from the current discussion: how does everyone feel about CCS Bard? I can't get past the fact that it is SO isolated. I visited before applying and I'm not kidding, like middle of nowhere empty. Coming from a city, it's a big shift. I also feel like I could make better connections doing a program in NYC, which is where I want to end up. Any thoughts?

[Joan Callamezzo]

On 3/23/2016 at 4:58 PM, betsy303 said:

Do the MA if you don't have at least broader sense of what your research interests are. This top 5, 10, prestige game is utterly atrocious. I couldn't go to a top 5, and potentially a 10, simply because those programs do not have specialists in my area. The 2 that did - one prof is no longer accepting students and one won't for another 5-7 years. Hence, you can't always put your life on hold, take out debt, etc for something that may or may not happen. Applying to programs with faculty who could create  interesting multidisciplinary thesis committee should be the top priority. 

I'm sorry, but this is really bad advice. All of your posts to this forum about how allegedly terrible "top" programs are do not ring true and just make it seem like you are trying to justify your own choices/program. There is nothing "atrocious" about going to a top school. There are plenty of opportunities at Harvard, Princeton, Yale, etc to put together "interesting multidisciplinary thesis committees." Maybe in the 80s and 90s the top programs were academically conservative, but that is certainly not the case anymore. 

[radredhead]

23 minutes ago, Little-bird said:

Off topic from the current discussion: how does everyone feel about CCS Bard? I can't get past the fact that it is SO isolated. I visited before applying and I'm not kidding, like middle of nowhere empty. Coming from a city, it's a big shift. I also feel like I could make better connections doing a program in NYC, which is where I want to end up. Any thoughts?

I'm actually deciding between this program and one other! But I will be visiting next week depending on the financial aid package (I figured there was no point in spending money on the flight if I can't afford the program.) My best friend is from this area, though, and I've spent time in Rhinebeck and Poughkeepsie. I really love their faculty, and it has the best reputation for any curating program. Yes, the Hudson Valley feels isolated, but you're only 90 minutes from NYC. Your network is essentially there. I did my undergrad in Syracuse, which is 4 hours away, and my connections to NYC are incredibly strong, albeit my undergrad is in a different industry. Being in the region overtakes any isolation you may think you're getting.
 

If you've also been accepted to schools in NYC, and feel like Bard isn't for you, I think it's worth considering those options. But I would completely not be worried about Bard being too far away. There are no Friday courses and students are often going down to the city for exhibitions and studio visits. They have shuttles that take people between the city & school for openings. The program has over 90% of their grads employed, and a huge chunk of them are in NYC. 

Edited March 24, 2016 by radredhead

[welshforjohn]

12 minutes ago, Little-bird said:

Off topic from the current discussion: how does everyone feel about CCS Bard? I can't get past the fact that it is SO isolated. I visited before applying and I'm not kidding, like middle of nowhere empty. Coming from a city, it's a big shift. I also feel like I could make better connections doing a program in NYC, which is where I want to end up. Any thoughts?

It is isolated, but Rhinebeck and Hudson aren't far, and those are cool towns, and Kingston isn't that far either if you need to go to any big box stores or chains for anything. Coming from a city, it probably would be a culture shock though. I'm from the Albany area, so it wouldn't be that big a change for me.

I've heard Bard has very good professors, but there's not that many contemporary art museums in the area outside of the campus one, unless you drive to MASS MoCA, Dia Beacon or to one of the contemporary sculpture parks, such as Storm King and Art OMI. You would be able to see more art, and probably make more connections, by doing a program in NYC. On the other hand, the cost of living is much cheaper in the Hudson Valley lol

 

[Little-bird]

8 minutes ago, welshforjohn said:

It is isolated, but Rhinebeck and Hudson aren't far, and those are cool towns, and Kingston isn't that far either if you need to go to any big box stores or chains for anything. Coming from a city, it probably would be a culture shock though. I'm from the Albany area, so it wouldn't be that big a change for me.

I've heard Bard has very good professors, but there's not that many contemporary art museums in the area outside of the campus one, unless you drive to MASS MoCA, Dia Beacon or to one of the contemporary sculpture parks, such as Storm King and Art OMI. You would be able to see more art, and probably make more connections, by doing a program in NYC. On the other hand, the cost of living is much cheaper in the Hudson Valley lol

 

Yeah my big problem is: no drivers license. I really like the program, but also feel just as good about NYU. DECISIONS

 

@radredhead what other program are you deciding between?

Edited March 24, 2016 by Little-bird

[welshforjohn]

7 minutes ago, radredhead said:

I'm actually deciding between this program and one other! But I will be visiting next week depending on the financial aid package (I figured there was no point in spending money on the flight if I can't afford it.) I really love their faculty, and it has the best reputation for any curating program. Yes, the Hudson Valley feels isolated, but you're only 90 minutes from NYC. Your network is essentially there. I did my undergrad in Syracuse, which is 4 hours away, and my connections to NYC are incredibly strong, albeit my undergrad is in a different industry. Being in the region overtakes any isolation you may think you're getting.
 

If you've also been accepted to schools in NYC, and feel like Bard isn't for you, I think it's worth considering being there. But I would completely not be worried about Bard being too far away. There are no Friday courses and students are often going down to the city for exhibitions and studio visits. They have shuttles that take people between the city & school for openings. The program has over 90% of their grads employed, and a huge chunk of them are in NYC. 

It's true that Bard is only a shuttle or train ride away from the city, but that can get taxing, and expensive if you take the train. I went to Purchase College for undergrad, which is right outside of White Plains, and I only went to the city once every two or three weeks because taking the train got expensive and going back and forth would make for a long day and could be kind of taxing. And Purchase is about an hour and a half south of Bard by car, so I imagine the train and/or shuttle is quite a bit longer than the 45 minute train ride I had into the city. If you think you can deal with that though, I've heard great things about Bard!

[welshforjohn]

1 minute ago, Little-bird said:

Yeah my big problem is: no drivers license. I really like the program, but also feel just as good about NYU. DECISIONS

You might feel really isolated without a drivers license then. Which program at NYU were you accepted into? Their PhD or master's?