How many times of taking the GRE is too many?

[koalalover1]

How many times did you guys take the GRE? I took it twice, and I am not remotely happy with my scores. I'm waiting on my writing, but my verbal was only a 143. Quantitative a 147 (which I could deal with, if my verbal was higher). The first time I took writing I got a 4.5, but this time I believe I wrote a lot better.  These scores aren't competitive at all, and it worries me! I took five practice tests, and every single time I beat that verbal score by at least 3 points. I don't know what happened. I've already taken the GRE twice, but I feel as though a third time is a must....? I just feel like that looks bad on applications. I know I talked to one of the faculty at our school, and she said that more than twice can be kind of bad, because then they start averaging scores on applications, rather than taking your highest score. Although I did click the "only send highest scores" option. I am just really discouraged, because I took prep classes and took five practice tests, and still couldn't manage better than a 143 on the Verbal.  My GPA is only a 3.52, major a 3.56 (but I have my last year of classes to take yet... I'm hoping to graduate with a 3.6 or better for both of those). I was on the track and field team on my campus for two years, but once I quit that my GPA rose immensely, I got two jobs (one is a behavioral therapist position)and my last 60 should be around a high 3.7-3.8.  I'm at a stand still on what to do to be honest. I have test anxiety, so taking tests like the GRE is not my thing...but it's no excuse. I feel defeated.

I guess I'm asking, how many times of taking the GRE is considered "too many"? Because I've heard even twice, but I KNOW I need a better verbal score. Or would it be more beneficial to do an independent study with the faculty on my campus? I know with two jobs and 15 credits, doing research may be tough. I just apply this year and I'm extremely nervous because I want this to be my dream come true, but I feel like I'm short. 

[mr479]

Unfortunately, I don't think you have a chance anywhere with these scores. Most graduate colleges require a composite score of 300 minimum, so the SLP department would not be able to recommend you for admission even if you have excellent rapport with the faculty. So, in your case, there is no such thing as too many times. It sounds like you would benefit from taking time off between your undergraduate and graduate degrees to better prepare yourself for this exam. If you can't acquire at least 3000 new vocabulary words, you probably won't do that well in grad school either. But I'm sure you are capable of both. You just need to expose yourself to these words by reading more literary and scholarly texts, or even watching the right films (e.g., 12 years a slave) that are rich in vocabulary. I bombed the SAT verbal section back in the day, I think my scores were below average; but my GRE was in the 80% because I learned a ton of new vocabulary over the years with vocabulary apps, cards, and audio books. Basically, you have to become a word nerd if you start off with poor verbal skills. Your performance on this test is all about preparation. Some people just need more time to prepare than others. I'm sure you've got what it takes.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Pennsatucky

[koalalover1]

I know. I'm in agreement. That's why I am posting about this. I don't really know how else to prepare. I probably sound so stupid, but at least I'm aware of this.  I didn't expect my score to be that low, because I prepared so much and scored higher on the practice sets. I guess not enough, though.  Thanks for the input, though. Those were my thoughts exactly and it's nice to hear it. Makes me more motivated to do better. I guess I will just have to re take it one more time and hope for the best. Hopefully that doesn't look bad, though. Whatever it takes, right?  A possible plan of mine is schedule a test in early December or one of the last couple weeks in November before Thanksgiving, and just learn vocabulary every day until the test. I know vocabulary definitions is where I struggled the most.  Having a year off would be beneficial, and I am already considering that, but I still want to at least try this year because I know I would regret it. As foolish as I probably sound, you never know until you try, right? If my scores can be closer to the 300 level than a 290, I would live with it. I know I can raise both of those scores and be closer. My LOR's and statements and grades will be where I can live with for applications for places I want to be at.

The first time I took the exam I went in blind, because I panicked and scheduled an exam way too early.  People who I talked to said they didn't prep much for it. My mistake. I honestly didn't learn much about the GRE from my University, and I should have done more outside research.  I'm just not expecting much right now, but I believe in myself. Thanks so much for the input! 

[mr479]

I think December and especially November is way too soon. Think of it as learning a new language. Can you learn a new language fluently in 3-4 months? I don't think you're stupid at all, but you've got to be realistic. I was in your shoes, believe me. I always thought my friends were more intelligent than me because they used big words I did not understand. And because I was embarrassed, I never asked them, "What does that word mean?" I first started studying for the GRE in 2009 and didn't take it until this year. I'm not saying I studied for 6 years, but I just became more of a word explorer, and especially with an e-reader, it's easy to look up unfamiliar words. I sucked at the math section, but I still managed to get into quite a few schools, which says to me that either the verbal is more important, or that one great score outweighs a bad one.

The schools you apply to shouldn't have access to all of your scores, only the ones you submit to them. So I don't think your previous scores should deter you at all from fulfilling your dream. Just forget about them. I once made an 890 on the SAT because I had anxiety, back before the writing section was added and it was out of 1600. And my score in the 7th grade was better than that! So I definitely know how anxiety can interfere. Have you perhaps taken an untimed practice test to see what your ability really is? Perhaps this will help you better know what you need to focus on to do better. And once you are confident you know the material and can handle anything that comes your way, you won't be worrying so much on test day.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Pennsatucky

[mr479]

Don't let me keep you from taking the test again this year if that's what you want. I think studying vocabulary everyday is the right plan of action, but also read read read read. But don't let GRE prep get in the way of your coursework. You would really be doing yourself a disservice. And there is really no rush.

[koalalover1]

Yeah I mean there's pros and cons to both sides. If I took the year off, I know I'd try to get an assistantship, and/or do shadowing with the three connections I know, on top of keeping my behavioral therapist job. Get money and experience to pay for grad school.  However, taking the year off makes me nervous with finding academic letters of rec, if I'm not taking classes for a year.My application letters wouldn't be as strong then. I know I am capable of better on both scores considering I scored better on all of my practice exams. It just kills me because I know I'm capable, but I'm just not performing. My anxiety has been pretty bad lately with tests, too. Maybe I just need to learn to manage that during tests. I also talked to one of the faculty at our school who is one of the members in charge of admissions at my school, and she said they can see how many times you take it. I don't get why you get the option to only send your highest scores then? That's why I'm even questioning taking it because taking it three times to get a decent score seems like it would look bad. You know?

[katiescarlett]

My scores were roughly similar to yours.  I will be taking the test again, because I know I am capable.  I am also not in school right now since I graduated last December, so that will help, not having other classes to prepare for.  However, I feel like I have test anxiety, which is why my scores were that low.  I, too, scored better on practice tests.  I always did well on exams in class, so the test anxiety seems limited to tests like the GRE.

[koalalover1]

My scores were roughly similar to yours.  I will be taking the test again, because I know I am capable.  I am also not in school right now since I graduated last December, so that will help, not having other classes to prepare for.  However, I feel like I have test anxiety, which is why my scores were that low.  I, too, scored better on practice tests.  I always did well on exams in class, so the test anxiety seems limited to tests like the GRE.

Hey, we're not alone! I know I have test anxiety. I also have general anxiety and have to go through therapy for it, because I react badly to medication. That is another reason why I have not shown my full potential it seems with the GRE. The anxiety just started up when I quit running, so it's all new to me. I just know I'm capable of more and can do well on the things that I am interested in. Speech Pathology is something I am really into, but taking math tests and verbal stuff just isn't easy for me to be good at, I guess. I can write really well, but I guess my vocab isn't up to par. I'm going to take the GRE one more time. If my results are the same, I guess there's always that one year off for me to gather myself and really apply myself. I just feel stupid, but I do try the best I can. It just is a shame because I know a test like the GRE doesn't show my character, yet it's going to be my make or break. 

[mr479]

I also talked to one of the faculty at our school who is one of the members in charge of admissions at my school, and she said they can see how many times you take it. I don't get why you get the option to only send your highest scores then?

Interesting. Yea, ETS people make it seem completely different, i.e., you have control over who gets to see your scores. Call ETS and ask them how that works. 

Still, you shouldn't worry about how many times is too many because you will not get in with your current scores. Your concern about the number of times you should or shouldn't take it is pointless. 

[mr479]

I also talked to one of the faculty at our school who is one of the members in charge of admissions at my school, and she said they can see how many times you take it. I don't get why you get the option to only send your highest scores then? That's why I'm even questioning taking it because taking it three times to get a decent score seems like it would look bad. You know?

No, I don't know. What you are saying makes absolutely no sense. You shouldn't worry about how many times are too many because you will not get in with your current scores. You need to retake the GRE no matter what. Your concern about the number of times you should and shouldn't take it is rather pointless and a waste of time.

That's interesting what your faculty had to say, but I think they are wrong. According to ETS, "The schools you designate will only see the scores that you selected to send them. There will be no special indication if you have taken additional GRE tests." https://www.ets.org/gre/revised_general/about/scoreselect/

 

Edited August 28, 2015 by Pennsatucky

[koalalover1]

No, I don't know. What you are saying makes absolutely no sense. You shouldn't worry about how many times are too many because you will not get in with your current scores. You need to retake the GRE no matter what. Your concern about the number of times you should and shouldn't take it is rather pointless and a waste of time.

That's interesting what your faculty had to say, but I think they are wrong. According to ETS, "The schools you designate will only see the scores that you selected to send them. There will be no special indication if you have taken additional GRE tests." https://www.ets.org/gre/revised_general/about/scoreselect/

 

Maybe I am explaining it badly, but I heard it, face to face conversation, with a professor in my department. She is one that helps decide who gets admitted. She put on a specific meeting for us to come talk to her if we had questions about admissions. She said typically (at least at our University) that after two times of taking the GRE, scores start being averaged. I am confused by this, too, because everywhere I look says differently. I know what I heard, and that's why I'm even asking if you or anybody has heard that.  I also know that you can choose whether or not to send all your scores considering I took the test, so I don't even know how schools could see all of your admissions.  That's why I am worried. Maybe she was saying this because she didn't know about the option to select whatever scores you want to send. I probably am over paranoid. 

 

I am basically questioning it because I know I don't make sense, but I heard two different answers from pretty reliable sources. Sorry I do not know any better because I find both ETS and my professor who has dealt with actual admissions pretty reliable.

[mr479]

Gotcha. Have you sent your scores to them before? Maybe she means if you send more than one set of scores, they average them. Because according to ETS, you should be able to control which test scores the department can see. However, once the scores are in their system, they stay there. That's all I can think of. But doing better on the next test will raise your average, if that is indeed what they do. That's why I suggested that November/December might be too soon. Back in the day when I took the SAT, after taking a prep course, my scores actually fell by 400 points. I am sure you do not want that to happen! So if averaging is what they do, you need to be very careful.

[koalalover1]

I sent my first two scores to two of the same places twice, but since taking the first one, my ideal colleges have changed. I decided to wait on sending my scores right away to my top four colleges, because I was not sure of this. I know I can always send them there later.  

[jmk]

koalalover1- she (the professor) must be referring to the old GRE. The "new" GRE on a /170 scale came out in I believe 2012.  With the old GRE, your scores were averaged, and if I recall properly all scores were shown. I know this as my significant other started his PhD program in 2012, and took the old version of the GRE in 2011, and had similar questions himself back then. 

With the new GRE, you have ScoreSelect and only select what sittings you want to send. If you took the test 7 times, you could select from 1-7 exams to send the school. The scores are all from one sitting, you can't take a verbal from one and math from another, but you get to choose what scores "sets" you send. There is absolutely no way a university can access your personal GRE records unless you release them. You would have to ask individual programs if they average, or take the highest, etc GRE score you send. 

Taking the GRE multiple times is a total waste of money unless you are well prepared for the retake. I took the GRE in August. Did poorly on quant. Was distraught. Registered to take the test again in September. Realized what a poor move that was, had to pay 50 bucks to reschedule it to next summer. I plan on prepping for quant for 6 months, and already (10 months before) am doing some minor practice a few times a week. Any part of the GRE you have a deficit in is, as I believe another user put it, is like learning another language. 

Edited August 28, 2015 by jmk

[koalalover1]

That makes sense, jmk. I think she was referring to, also, if you send three scores to the same school, the particular school I go to will start averaging your scores based off your three results, and assume that is closer to your real result. I just know if I want to stand a chance this year, I'll need to retake it. I'm just nervous that three times looks bad to schools, but at the same time it might also show how much I want to improve. Every school is different. It is a toss up. I'm just not ready to throw the towel in yet and give up. My professor also told me this in the Spring of this year, so I'm not sure if she would be referring to the old GRE.

[koalalover1]

Also, two of the schools I want to apply to received my first two scores (on of them is my #3), but my top two choices right now have none of my scores.  I don't have an intention to stay at my particular school for a few reasons, but obviously if it comes down to it, I would. I'll just be happy to get in somewhere. I know the places I want to apply to have averaged around a 151V 147Q and 4 writing. (My Q is right on that, could be higher if I retake, and my writing is a 4.5 right now, could be higher if I retake). My verbal goal is just to get close to a 151 if not better (which is a stretch, but worth the mindset), GPA's around a 3.6 (which I will have) major GPA a 3.7 (which I will have). So I can understand that the verbal section is extremely tough and I will have a lot of work to do to be competitive, but just because of one low score I do not want to throw in the towel and give up on this whole process. If I can take it again, I will. The money is worth it to me. Despite that verbal score, I think my other stats could have a shot at some of the places I have emailed and looked at. If I could even improve it slightly, it would make me feel better. I know I am never going to be able to attend a top notch program, which is fine with me. I just know I have it in me and I don't want to just walk away. 

[jmk]

Have you thought about taking a prep course, or private tutoring? That is what I'm looking at. It's costly (a grand for a prep course) but if you do well with an additional motivator/ a lot of structure, I would consider it. 

[mr479]

Are you familiar with EdFind? EdFind has admissions statistics for all the SLP programs in the US. You can use this resource , to see how many applicants there are to a particular school, what portion of those applicants were offered admission, and what their credentials were. Koalalover, I'm getting a bit frustrated with you because I don't think you grasp how competitive this field is. Right now as you stand, you are not competitive for even a waitlist. I'm curious what your top 3 are. You might want to take a look at less competitive schools (there is thread somewhere out there). I'm not trying to be harsh, but I'd hate for you to waste a bunch of $$$$$$$$$$$$$ this application season knowing you have a long way to go.

[koalalover1]

I know what EdFind is. I'm well aware of how competitive the schools are. I have emailed schools this entire summer, and I went to a clinic on my campus about graduate school admissions. I'm well aware of what I am doing. Sorry for trying to be optimistic. When schools email me and say the AVERAGES for GPA are the same, if not lower than mine, and two of my GRE scores are better than/the exact same as the school's averages, I thought that would be SOMEWHAT competitive. I thought I would stand SOMEWHAT of a chance if I retook it to get my last score at that average mark. Maybe not, I guess. 

Edited August 29, 2015 by koalalover1

[koalalover1]

I've looked at: Grand Valley State, Indiana State, Michigan State, Eastern New Mexico, UW Stevens Point, UW Whitewater, UW River Falls, Arkansas State, University of South Carolina, Georgia State, Southeast Missouri State, Northern Illinois, Mizzou, and those are only SOME. I also want to do more research on Ohio Schools, andt the two Dakotas. I haven't narrowed my list down, but right now I have fourteen I know for sure I want to apply to, (because we have a $56 fee to apply to all Wisconsin schools since I am in school there, and there are 6 not counting Marquette). I am still researching for more.

 Indiana State has told me their average stats for people admitted are a 3.6 overall, 3.7 major (I have both), 147 quantitative (I have that) 3.9 writing (I have a 4.5, waiting on my second score which I feel is better), 151 verbal (which, I KNOW my score is not competitive, so I want to re take the test, which is why I even brought this forum up in the first place) 22 people a year with about 38% acceptance rate. I also went and visited this campus and chatted for a bit with the faculty and a graduate student. It is my top choice at the moment, along with Point and either Grand Valley State, or Michigan State. I also am looking at Arkansas State due to my boyfriend, but I am well aware that I cannot choose because of him, so I have many options to think about right now, and that is why that school is not in my top three. Eastern New Mexico averages are lower than that, and the application is free, so definitely applying there, Steven's Point is the exact same as Indiana State but with a 4 (50th percentile) on the writing instead, and they admit 36 people a year, 39% admittance rate. Michigan State GPA average was a 3.52 (I have that), and range of applicants went from a 3.0-3.92.  They have a little higher quantitative (149), and they admit 32 with a 40% admittance rate. I did not find their major GPA average last year, though.

I've emailed the majority of these places and they've given me stats. Some of them are a stretch, but I have been told to always apply to schools that are a stretch to get into (although I know I will be extremely fortunate to even get in anywhere). I also did look at that less competitive forum, which is how I found a few of those, so I have not emailed those departments yet. It is summer, and I will be finding more schools out throughout the year. I would not have even started this forum or joined this website if I didn't know anything. Basically I did because I feel like my school hasn't given me enough information at this point (I will obviously get more this year) and I am just trying to get ahead of the game to prepare myself for both winning and losing. Sorry if this doesn't seem like I have at least a shot to get wait listed SOMEWHERE and hopefully get that acceptance. It would just be silly in my eyes to give up already without even TRYING. My resume also involves a behavioral therapist position, observing two separate school speech pathologists, I am waiting to hear back from one of my professors about shadowing in a hospital for pediatric feeding, to spread my horizons, I have observed graduate students at my program, I have taught Spanish to elementary school kids, volunteered in Costa Rica, I have volunteered throughout my application, I am on NSSLHA, intramural sports (four of them) and I did track and field for my first two years, where I was the representative for my class in the athletics club at my school for two years. I have five teachers in mind to ask for a letter of recommendation. I have one of the speech therapists I have observed before, because she is my neighbor and I have ran and been in school with her daughter as well. I also am well aware that many people out there are 10X more competitive than me, and I have a lot of work to do (which is awesome for them, and I wish everybody the best), but sorry that I thought this type of stuff would at least get me wait listed at the schools I am looking at. Maybe not. Not trying to be rude, or talk myself up, but I know what I am doing and I am asking for feedback to have some support because I feel as though I have done a lot on my own, and it is new to me. I appreciate everybody's support and comments on this, and I wish everybody the best of luck this coming cycle! 

Edited August 29, 2015 by koalalover1