Lots of false starts ...

[multifaceted]

(This isn't meant to be a sob story so I hope it doesn't sound like one.)

I have a Bachelor's degree in the arts from 2002. During an attempt at graduate school in music I realized that while I loved academia, the arts are not right for me. As cliche and as corny as it sounds, I love the idea of the open exchange of ideas and learning. For the next several years, I attempted to get started on a graduate degree in Computer Science at two different schools. Finances finally caught up with me and I had to leave almost 3 years ago at the age of 30. This devastated me and I have always been looking back over my shoulder wondering "What if?" The only jobs I have been able to get are working in small businesses who know nothing about software development. They only got into the business because someone threw some money at them to make a website. My academic and research mindset does not work well with this and I have been fired from the last two jobs I have had.

The internet has let me be an academic somewhat vicariously. iTunes University and MIT OpenCourseWare are what keep me sane sometimes. The mathematical rigor of Computer Science provides the structured environment that I thrive off of. I often quote Bjarne Stroustroup "I prefer to know when a system works, and why." This is again different from the world of small business IT which says "just get it working and if it breaks we'll deal with it." My areas of interest is programming languages (namely domain specific languages and virtual machines) and I also am interested in software systems development methods. I order used textbooks off of Amazon and EBay for low prices so that I can at least keep my academic side busy but it's not enough.

Basically, I am 33 years old (approaching 34) and I have finally realized that I want to return to academia and not leave. I think that I need to get a Ph.D. and become a researcher and/or professor. I could theoretically do this by the time I am 40 if I were to get started in the fall of 2010 and that includes a year of prerequisites. I am not married, have no children, and very few financial commitments outside of previous student loans which will be suspended if I re-enroll.

First off, am I nuts? I have these thoughts about pursuing my dream and then I also have visions of being the oldest person there trying to recapture my youth. I don't want to be the odd person out because most other students my age will likely be married. The school I want to go to is the one I had to leave before. I didn't leave with the greatest academic record but the last 3 years have made me more focused because I know what is waiting for me if I don't do it. How do I get this across to them? It's not an A-list school but it is up and coming. They are the best public school in the state probably. I really want to go back and finish what I started where I started it.

Any thoughts are comments someone might have would be appreciated.

Thanks.

[karl_marx_jr]

You should definitely apply but your chances seem minimal for a cs phd admit because you dont have formal strong cs background to prove that you would be succesfull in phd. And since phd students are mostly funded by profs you will need to have good qualifications. Also some profs dont want to work with people in thirties. A phd in usa is not a booked seat for an academic position and its very competitive to get one.

I would suggest you take GRE CS subject test and get a percentile above 90 and then you will have very good chances at good schools. Unless you have been admitted to a phd program you will be to a MS program and then continue your way with a phd with convincing profs during your MS.

[gray]

I can relate to some of the things you write. I'm 31..and a mom to a toddler. I'm applying for PhD for fall 2011...and I have the same apprehension...that I'll be the old kid on the block. Plus, I don't know how the heck I'll be a mom and make time for everything else (yes, everything else comes second... But, I really want to do this....and have wanted to for a long time. But I needed to work and bring the money....and could not do this before. But now I'm taking a year out of my life to strategize and apply to the schools I want. I figure if I don't get in, then I go back to what I was doing which was also good....just tougher to get research projects....had to earn it by product development on the side.

So, my advice to you is....if you're serious....think about doing research on your own or collaborating even with phd students at a local univ and getting some research experience. Sell whatever skill you've got in exchange for some research opportunity. Alternatively, at your work place, put some extra time to work on some related research work. I worked as a s/w engineer on the product development side for several years and I used to do this...and had to prove my worth and slowly gained more research time. Unfortunately for me...I could not publish anything because of IP....and I got tired being pulled away from it. I've found in my experience that if you become invaluable to a company, they'll let you do something that you want...even if it's for a small percentage of your time.

I know it's tough...but if you really want it....go for it. When you're old and you think back on your life....you'll always wonder why you didn't go for it. Try for it...and if you don't get in....hey atleast you tried your best right..?

[datamineguy]

I can relate to some of the things you write. I'm 31..and a mom to a toddler. I'm applying for PhD for fall 2011...and I have the same apprehension...that I'll be the old kid on the block. Plus, I don't know how the heck I'll be a mom and make time for everything else (yes, everything else comes second... But, I really want to do this....and have wanted to for a long time. But I needed to work and bring the money....and could not do this before. But now I'm taking a year out of my life to strategize and apply to the schools I want. I figure if I don't get in, then I go back to what I was doing which was also good....just tougher to get research projects....had to earn it by product development on the side.

So, my advice to you is....if you're serious....think about doing research on your own or collaborating even with phd students at a local univ and getting some research experience. Sell whatever skill you've got in exchange for some research opportunity. Alternatively, at your work place, put some extra time to work on some related research work. I worked as a s/w engineer on the product development side for several years and I used to do this...and had to prove my worth and slowly gained more research time. Unfortunately for me...I could not publish anything because of IP....and I got tired being pulled away from it. I've found in my experience that if you become invaluable to a company, they'll let you do something that you want...even if it's for a small percentage of your time.

I know it's tough...but if you really want it....go for it. When you're old and you think back on your life....you'll always wonder why you didn't go for it. Try for it...and if you don't get in....hey atleast you tried your best right..?

its very respectful. pursuing phd somewhat late.

i hope both of you succeed.

[grotesqueidols]

Hi all!

First, let me say I am a hanger-on at the moment. My fella is currently applying to CS PhD programs and I am the one following this site and the forums. Why? Mostly because I am in the final year of my own PhD (Archaeology/South American Politics at Cambridge) and it is the only distraction that I am allowing myself.

Anyhow:

Also some profs dont want to work with people in thirties.

Who on earth could you be talking about? I have never once in my graduate carrier come across a prof that preferred absurdly young students to more mature students. Mature students are safe, so to speak: they are more likely to know what they want and to be able to exist in a less structured graduate environment without freaking out, cracking under the pressure, or producing research that is mediocre or immature. This is all things equal, mind, but I'd accept a 31 one year old over a 21 year old any day. Furthermore, 33 is quite young. In my department we have a small pocket of people who clearly went straight on through and are in their mid 20s, the rest skirt around 30 or older. A 33 year old shouldn't feel weird.

For the poster: if you are worried about PhD admission, consider doing a one year masters in Computer Science at a UK university. It is easier to get accepted, you will display your research potential, earn a recommendation from an academic or two, and be able to apply back to US PhDs in only a year. Chances are you will not get funded for the masters but you will qualify for US student loans etc.

[katie katie katie]

A concern I didn't see expressed in other replies to this is about, well, what after grad school?

From a family of academics in sciences, it's my understanding that the older the applicant for a faculty position, the less likely. Indeed, I have been told of the "postdoc limbo," a situation where basically older grads and folks with international phds have postdoc positions for decades, in some cases not moving on to faculty.

This is just something I heard about, and have no first-hand experience with (except friends/family in the international phd case), but it seems like something that would be helpful to clarify before proceeding in this major thing.

But I think you should go for it, regardless of the risks, if that is what you really want. Part of academia is that titles and positions aside, the idea is that you love to do what you do, and if that's the case, and you're willing to sacrifice (potentially) higher pay (postdocs get very little money, and if you get stuck in the limbo, it is not the happiest thing, but people get by and everything is fine), then everything will work out fine.

[grotesqueidols]

From a family of academics in sciences, it's my understanding that the older the applicant for a faculty position, the less likely. Indeed, I have been told of the "postdoc limbo," a situation where basically older grads and folks with international phds have postdoc positions for decades, in some cases not moving on to faculty.

My phd supervisor started his undergrad at 33, became a lecturer at Cambridge heading his own research center by around 40 and at 50ish is a full prof at Stanford. Clearly he is wicked awesome but what I am trying to say is that you cannot box anyone in here. If you are awesome your age will be meaningless.

My 33 year old boyfriend was just told by a potential supervisor that he had placed every single advisee who wanted to teach in stellar university positions and that the boyf would be no different.

[OH YEAH]

My 33 year old boyfriend was just told by a potential supervisor that he had placed every single advisee who wanted to teach in stellar university positions and that the boyf would be no different.

"don't get suckered"

[grotesqueidols]

"don't get suckered"

Well...there is a list of them online