GRE Scores when applying to philosophy programs

[D-NixRT]

Hi everyone! This is only my second post here so if I'm posting in the wrong section, apologies in advance.

I just got my GRE scores back and while my verbal was not what I preferred to see (only 67 percentile), my analytic tests scored in the 93 percentile. Aside from "as high as you can aim for," what are good percentiles to shoot for when applying to philosophy Ph.D programs for each section? I know quantitative isn't really looked at much, and I've heard stories of 80 percentile in verbal being the cutoff some places. Does my analytic section compensate for my verbal?

For background information, I'm applying to most programs in Wisconsin, then IU Bloomington, Bowling Green, and some miscellaneous programs in Illinois.

Thanks in advance to anyone that replies!

[sidebysondheim]

Here is a good, recent post on GRE: http://forum.thegradcafe.com/topic/68262-fall-2016-applicants-introduce-yourselves/?do=findComment&comment=1058296522

 

If I were you, I'd definitely consider retaking it. The quantitative or analytic (I guess people in philosophy don't care about the analytic writing? I've never heard anyone on an ad com. say that, but it seems to be commonly believed on here) can't "make up for" or "balance" your poorer score, since your poorer score is the one considered "more important" for philosophy. 

[jjb919]

I agree with what sidebysondheim says above. I'd like to add one more thing. I remember reading on a philosophy blog (I think it was a post on Leiter's blog but I'm not positive and can't find it at the moment) a professor stating that he doesn't pay much attention to the analytical writing section much--unless there's a big divergence between the AW score and the applicant's writing sample. In other words, if the writing sample is excellent, and the AW score on the GRE is really poor, he may take a closer look; it could be that the applicant is not great at writing strong analytical essays in a short amount of time, but it also could be an indication that the writing sample isn't the applicant's own work. Again, take this with a grain of salt as I can't find the source.

[philstudent1991]

so, low 150s? Ya unfortunately I think that means a retake is probably necessary. But, most ad comms will say that the GRE is the least important factor in admissions. 

Then again, I don't know much about "miscellaneous schools in Illinois." For Wisconsin or Indiana though, I'd shoot for 160+ for sure. 

Edited September 24, 2015 by philstudent1991

[overoverover]

Here is a good, recent post on GRE: http://forum.thegradcafe.com/topic/68262-fall-2016-applicants-introduce-yourselves/?do=findComment&comment=1058296522

 

If I were you, I'd definitely consider retaking it. The quantitative or analytic (I guess people in philosophy don't care about the analytic writing? I've never heard anyone on an ad com. say that, but it seems to be commonly believed on here) can't "make up for" or "balance" your poorer score, since your poorer score is the one considered "more important" for philosophy. 

I believe the idea is that ad coms don't care about the writing score because your sample is more indicative of your writing.

[Dialectica]

so, low 150s? Ya unfortunately I think that means a retake is probably necessary. But, most ad comms will say that the GRE is the least important factor in admissions. 

Then again, I don't know much about "miscellaneous schools in Illinois." For Wisconsin or Indiana though, I'd shoot for 160+ for sure. 

I'm curious: even though Wisconsin doesn't require the GRE in admissions, you still think it's especially important that he retake to raise his score? For Indiana, sure, but do you have reason to think Wisconsin assigns some non-negligible weight to the GRE, despite their not requiring it? 

[philstudent1991]

I'm curious: even though Wisconsin doesn't require the GRE in admissions, you still think it's especially important that he retake to raise his score? For Indiana, sure, but do you have reason to think Wisconsin assigns some non-negligible weight to the GRE, despite their not requiring it? 

No, I just had in mind Wisconsin as a T25 department, with nothing specific in mind about whether they require the GRE or not. If they do not require it, then it seems like retaking it would not be a priority, though of course almost all reputable programs do (for better or worse) require it, so Wisconsin's not wanting it might not matter. 

[ianfaircloud]

D-NixRT:

In my view, the ### score is more helpful than the % score. A lot of professors are pretty ignorant about how to use scores. They see 160+, and they think that's a good score. So in my view, shoot for 160 or better.

The 67% could be a liability. Hard to say. Though schools don't say so, they do often use scores as a way to filter applications. They receive so many applications and have less time to consider them than they would like. Some individual professors have their own ways of evaluating scores. I know a few professors who think standardized test scores are worthless as an indicator of philosophical potential.

Think of the score as just the way you get your foot in the door. It doesn't matter that you got a 165 instead of a 170 on Verbal. What might matter is that you got a 155 on Verbal, which might put you below the cut-off for some programs. Again, schools never say they have a cut-off. It's not a formal cut-off. But there are cut-offs. Once you survive the initial cut, the importance of the score goes away. Professors turn their attention toward the substantive pieces, like the writing sample and letters.

If I were you, I'd study the Verbal a bit more and retake. We just don't know how your score will affect you, so in the interest of avoiding unnecessary risks to your application, I'd retake.

[Brudo713]

Hey guys, another question on GRE scores. I did as well as I wanted in verbal and quant (164 and 158, respectively) but I sucked in the writing. I got a 4 (56th percentile) and I'm worried that this might mean being discarded before they take a look at my actual work. I'm a very slow writer but also a very good one (or so my professors tell me) so it would be a shame to be shafted because of a shitty AW score. 

Anyone here have a success story with a low AW score?

[ianfaircloud]

Hey guys, another question on GRE scores. I did as well as I wanted in verbal and quant (164 and 158, respectively) but I sucked in the writing. I got a 4 (56th percentile) and I'm worried that this might mean being discarded before they take a look at my actual work. I'm a very slow writer but also a very good one (or so my professors tell me) so it would be a shame to be shafted because of a shitty AW score. 

Anyone here have a success story with a low AW score?

This data may be helpful: https://faircloudblog.wordpress.com/philosophy-admissions-survey/.

[PorchlightPhilosopher]

I think the GRE just gets you past the first cut...  I don't think it can help you, I think it can only totally fuck you in the sense that it can eliminate you off the bat. 

 

That being said, I got a 160 on my verbal, 155 quantitative (still waiting on AW score) and I'm not worried about being cut anywhere because of my GRE.  

[gughok]

I think the GRE just gets you past the first cut...  I don't think it can help you, I think it can only totally fuck you in the sense that it can eliminate you off the bat. 

I happened to talk to my department's Director of Graduate studies, who's on the graduate admissions committee, last week about my own application plans. He advised me that even with a committee, "if you gather three people together, they aren't going to agree on what is most important". He said he personally valued GRE over GPA, "but that may just be because I had a poor GPA and great GREs". In his case, GREs could both help and hurt - others may only heed GREs if they're particularly poor, as you suggest. I would avoid making sweeping claims about GREs and, nerve-wracking as it may be, simply say that you try to do your best on them and leave it at that.

That being said, I got a 160 on my verbal, 155 quantitative (still waiting on AW score) and I'm not worried about being cut anywhere because of my GRE.  

Nice - when did you take it? I took mine last Saturday (10th), waiting on AW nervously.

[philapgirl]

For what it's worth, I wouldn't worry about your scores at all. A ton of professors on the Leiter reports have said that no decision will be made based only on a GRE score and it only really works as a point against or for you if your scores are significantly low or high. Even if that isn't entirely correct, I doubt they would use such a high cutoff score as 160. (For instance, one professor noted that his department does a GPA cutoff at 3.0.)

Last year, my friend applied to Ph.D programs and got into three top 20 schools (according to philosophicalgourmet.com), two of which were top 10, with a great writing sample, great grades, excellent work experience and letters, and a quant score of 152 (48th percentile). Before him a few years before, there was a student who scored about a V157 and got into a top 20 school. 

Of course, they were excellent candidates, but again, I would not worry about your score. 

[philapgirl]

Hey guys, another question on GRE scores. I did as well as I wanted in verbal and quant (164 and 158, respectively) but I sucked in the writing. I got a 4 (56th percentile) and I'm worried that this might mean being discarded before they take a look at my actual work. I'm a very slow writer but also a very good one (or so my professors tell me) so it would be a shame to be shafted because of a shitty AW score. 

Anyone here have a success story with a low AW score?

Yes, the student (talked about above) with the low quant score (Q152---48th percentile) got a 4AW score. There's lot of consensus that no one cares at all about it.

[gughok]

There's lot of consensus that no one cares at all about it.

I met with one of my professors a few days ago and asked him at one point, "is it true that GREs can only hurt?"

He glanced around surreptitiously as though to make sure nobody was listening (we were alone in his office), leaned his head forward like he was about to tell me some damning secret, and answered in a low voice, "the truth is, when the admissions committees go over their applications, some people don't even look at the GRE at all."

So yeah.

[thatsjustsemantics]

For what it's worth, I wouldn't worry about your scores at all. A ton of professors on the Leiter reports have said that no decision will be made based only on a GRE score and it only really works as a point against or for you if your scores are significantly low or high. Even if that isn't entirely correct, I doubt they would use such a high cutoff score as 160. (For instance, one professor noted that his department does a GPA cutoff at 3.0.)

Last year, my friend applied to Ph.D programs and got into three top 20 schools (according to philosophicalgourmet.com), two of which were top 10, with a great writing sample, great grades, excellent work experience and letters, and a quant score of 152 (48th percentile). Before him a few years before, there was a student who scored about a V157 and got into a top 20 school. 

Of course, they were excellent candidates, but again, I would not worry about your score. 

Adding to this:

96% Verbal, 46% Quant, 93% writing here. I'm not worried at all. Some schools might have a cut-off, but I'm confident that such a cut-off also considers Cumulative GPA and GPA in one's major(s). Moreover, to put this into philosophical perspective: if an admissions committee composed of professors who will shape your potential career is superficial enough to be more than implicitly biased against an applicant solely based on their GRE scores, then that is a university you probably do not want to attend. Too bad we can't get refunds.

Edited October 24, 2015 by thatsjustsemantics
woops grammar

[Chrysippus'Doge]

I met with one of my professors a few days ago and asked him at one point, "is it true that GREs can only hurt?"

He glanced around surreptitiously as though to make sure nobody was listening (we were alone in his office), leaned his head forward like he was about to tell me some damning secret, and answered in a low voice, "the truth is, when the admissions committees go over their applications, some people don't even look at the GRE at all."

So yeah.

Well that's probably the last thing you wanted to hear, given your scores.

My guess though is that there are at least some ad com members who know a thing about GRE scores and would give yours a double take. 

[D-NixRT]

I'm super late to the discussion, but I was astonished to see so much feedback (I was new to the site, so coming back didn't set into habit yet). I just wanna post and say thank you all for the insight. I took the GRE again and did better (but not much), so the people that are saying GRE doesn't matter really reassure me! haha.

Really though, thank you all for your thoughtful comments. I regret not getting back to you guys sooner.

[AnotherKantFan]

I've scored rather badly in my GRE and decided not to retake it due to lack of time to actually study for it more. My score was affected by a very upsetting personal situation - I simply couldn't focus on the test immediately before it or during it. I've emailed some departments asking about the importance of it, and most of them replied that the GRE isn't a cut-off mark or that important in general, and that it's only the case that an exceptionally good GRE score may positively affect your application, not the other way around. Brown was the only US department that suggested I retake the test upon learning about my scores (oh well...).

[D-NixRT]

Honestly, that is exceptionally reassuring. Thank you for that! I just regret accidentally sending my scores to places that didn't require them. :|