How negatively will this impact my applications?

[Ilikekitties]

Hi all. One of my recommenders will be commenting on how she thinks that I would benefit from spending 1-2 years outside of academia before entering grad school in order to get more life experience (I'm a senior). In other words, she's gonna tell them that I'm not ready. Is this a major red flag? My other two recommenders will not have this caveat.

Edited October 14, 2015 by CostaRita

[fuzzylogician]

If it were me on the adcom, I would consider it a red flag. How much of a red flag will depend at least partially on the wording -- for example, if she says you're not ready for grad school, that sounds different than that you could use more time to refine your interests. We can't really know how much this will hurt you. My guess is that if I saw such a thing in a LOR I would look extra carefully at the SOP to make sure that the applicant seems mature and ready for grad school, because admitting someone who isn't a good fit or who is likely to drop out will just waste time and money that could be spent on someone who is likelier to make it. No one wants to admit someone who will be unhappy and drop out--it's bad for the person, and it's also bad for the cohort this person is in. I'd also read the other LORs to see not only that they don't also raise this concern, but that they explicitly express the opinion that you are ready for school. If your other LORs and SOP all give the impression that you're ready, then this one LOR stands out. If not, then I'm afraid I would have some reservations. (And this of course is just my opinion. The shortest answer to your question is that no one here can know.)

Edited October 14, 2015 by fuzzylogician

[Ilikekitties]

Sure. Thanks!

[knp]

I don't want to beat a dead horse, but why do you disagree with her? What are your reasons for thinking that her argument is wrong?

[Ilikekitties]

I never said that I disagreed with her or that I thought that she was wrong...taking time off is a personal choice. I don't know what's "right" for me - I'll probably never know until I try things out. She's told me many times that she went straight to grad school and she wished that she hadn't. She's been telling me this for years.

 

She did tell me that I'm the hardest worker she's ever seen.

Edited October 14, 2015 by CostaRita

[nevermind]

Honestly, if a potential LOR told me that they would write for me with caveats, I would thank them but decline their offer. I asked one professor (with whom I took a graduate-level seminar and TA'd for...but was outside my field/didn't really know my work because his TA graded the seminar), if he would write me a letter--and he declined (he's retired now), with the caveat of "if you can't get anyone else to, I'll do it." I inferred that this letter would be mediocre at best, so I found another professor instead who (1) knew my work better (2) I met with a couple of times outside of class to discuss research opportunities (3) I started a study group for the class that benefited multiple students. At the time, we also discussed taking time off to assess if a PhD would be a good move (given the current academic climate / the nature of the discipline), and I took his advice and then was able to come back and say, "yes, this is what I still want to do"--which I also think is beneficial. He wasn't my immediate choice, but I feel like my applications will be much stronger with him as a writer as opposed to the other professor. 

Likewise, I think you should stretch your imagination a bit to see who else might be a strong writer for you. In your current situation, it sounds like the current professor's letter will hurt more than help. Writers are supposed to write glowing letters, so anything on the contrary would stand out (and not in a good way). In addition, emphasizing things like "hard worker" can some times be misinterpreted for "she's not bright, but she'll make an effort". 

Think about it--compared to people in an imaginary applicant pool:

"This student is the best I've ever had."

"I worked closely with this student on project X and without reservation support their application..."
"This student works hard, but could take some time off to mature academically." 

Which one would you cut out? Sure, the deck is a little stacked (in that there are no other measures to quantify), but you get the idea. Don't give them reasons to doubt your success.

 

[Ilikekitties]

She thinks that I'm mature academically, or why else would she want me to spend time outside of academia? Another potential recommender said that I am very intellectually mature for a BA, but she thinks that I need some time to be an adult outside of a school setting. Makes sense. She said that the vast majority of undergrads are not ready for PhD programs, so it's nothing personal.

The 3rd recommender that I did ask (with the caveat) knows my work the best, so that's why I chose her. I have a very high GPA and I've done very well in her classes.

[nevermind]

To be honest, I've never really heard of professors telling promising students to leave academia. Usually, it's the opposite--they try to funnel them into programs where they know they'd succeed so they can realize their potential. If two separate professors have advised you to take time off--that's not insignificant. Sure, it might be a kick to the ego. Sure, you can "prove them wrong" and try to gain admittance and do well, but I would strongly encourage you to seek out alternatives that will supplement future PhD applications--especially if you don't get in this round. 

[Ilikekitties]

Yes, I will be applying for jobs as well and I have already applied for a Fulbright. I will have plans A B and C.

[Bschaefer]

I would take it as a red flag. On the receiving end, it would come off as unprepared and unfocused. Thought it may be the best choice for you right now, I would decline and ask that it wasn't included or at least seek another LOI. They can advise you that leaving academia is an alternate pathway but ultimately it's your choice. Since they are writing a letter for you, they also have the control to make or break your application. 

[rising_star]

To me, that's a major red flag. If multiple professors have recommended that you take time off, CostaRita, then there probably is something to what they're saying. As tmt503 has said, you'll be competing against people who have three overwhelmingly positive recommendations. Because of that, someone suggesting you take time off, rather than begin grad school right away, will definitely stand out to members of the adcom. If I were on the adcom and saw such a letter, I probably wouldn't consider you as an applicant unless everything else was absolutely stellar, particularly the SOP and writing sample. I would need to be able to see from what you've submitted that you are indeed ready to start grad school in a few months, so I'd expect to see evidence of research ability, background knowledge in anthropological theory and history, and intellectual and personal maturity in what you submit. Is that asking for a lot? Absolutely! I tend to put a fair bit of weight on the assessment of faculty (so the LOR portion of an application) because they provide a picture that we can't otherwise know. So, when something is suggesting that the picture is less than perfect, everything else has to convince me that the problem is in the recommender's head, rather than with the applicant. 

This is sort of an aside but I really don't understand why you think they see you as academically mature if the very same people are recommending you take time off to gain perspective and maturity. 

[Ilikekitties]

One of them told me that I was very intellectually mature for a BA. It has to do with social/life skills. I don't really have other faculty who know my work.

Edited October 15, 2015 by CostaRita

[Coatlicue]

I think it would be a major red flag. Everything else in your application would have to be stellar to offset a faculty member saying she doesn't think you're ready. Having said that, I strongly advise paying attention to what your professors are telling you; it is probably for a good reason. Going to grad school because you aren't sure what to do next year, or because you're afraid of the unknown aren't good enough reasons. You have to be sure about your research interests, what you want out of a grad program, and that you're ready for the rigors of grad school, otherwise you risk burning out. This is especially true if you go right out of undergrad. Your professor is right that most undergrads are not ready for grad school right after graduating- this is because many undergrads aren't yet sure about their goals and interests and, as a result, end up struggling.

I'm sure you're intelligent and perfectly capable of performing well in grad school, but if the people who know you academically are telling you to take a break, you should consider why they are telling you this. I, and your professors I'm sure, don't write/say this to dissuade you from ever going to grad school, but it sounds like you still have to figure out your ultimate aims and research questions before embarking on such a long and difficult path. Sorry if my response sounds harsh, but grad school is something you have to be really sure about, and at the moment you sound a bit ambivalent.

Either way, good luck. I hope everything works out well for you, whichever route you take.

Edited October 15, 2015 by Coatlicue

[Ilikekitties]

I think that I'm ambivalent mostly because faculty are suggesting that I take time off. Six months ago I was deadset on going straight in. I asked another faculty member to write and she said that she would have to be a last resort because she's very busy. The department is very small and there's no one else.

Edited October 15, 2015 by CostaRita

[Ilikekitties]

With most of my programs requiring three recs, would it be an even worse idea to just have two?

[Ilikekitties]

With all of this being said, I am required to apply this year because I am in the McNair Scholars program. That's the one thing about it that sucks.

[Coatlicue]

If you have no choice but to apply, the only thing you can do is prepare your application materials the best that you can. Definitely submit three letters of recommendation and spend some time thinking about the research you'd like to do and your ultimate career goals before writing your statement. I'm wondering if you want to apply to grad school this round or if you're only doing it because of the stipulations of the McNair. If it's the latter and you're admitted to a few schools, perhaps they would let you defer (deferrals are rare, however). If anything, it would be good practice for future applications.

[Ilikekitties]

No, I do want to apply this round. I have a statement draft written for one school. As for ultimate career goals, I have some ideas, but only time will tell. I have gotten some very positive responses from potential advisors, so we'll see.

Edited October 15, 2015 by CostaRita

[nevermind]

I might also suggest looking into the Peace Corps, if you can swing it (and for whatever reason, don't get the Fulbright). It will give you a chance to get international work experience and likely pick up a foreign language. The Peace Corps' reputation is also quite good and everybody that I've known who has done it has gotten into exceptional graduate programs. 

[Ilikekitties]

Both of the profs with the caveats suggested Americorps or Peace Corps. One said that Fulbright would be perfect. I hope that they have rolling deadlines because I won't be able to start anything like that until after all of my grad school apps are in. And Fulbright's hella competitive, so I'm not counting on it.

Edited October 15, 2015 by LittleCritterB

[rising_star]

With most of my programs requiring three recs, would it be an even worse idea to just have two?

Having only two recommendation letters when you're required to submit three will basically guarantee a rejection. You have to do everything they ask for in the application!

[Ilikekitties]

^Yeah I figured that lol

[Ilikekitties]

Just a thought: the other day at the doctor the nurse asked me if I am ever mistaken for a younger person. She said that I looked like a teenager...do you think that my appearance could be affecting what my profs are saying, or is that way off?

[farflung]

Both of the profs with the caveats suggested Americorps or Peace Corps. One said that Fulbright would be perfect. I hope that they have rolling deadlines because I won't be able to start anything like that until after all of my grad school apps are in. And Fulbright's hella competitive, so I'm not counting on it.

Americorps positions are all rolling. Peace Corps usually has a late winter / early spring deadline, which you can certainly apply to after finishing your grad apps in the fall. 

[farflung]

Just a thought: the other day at the doctor the nurse asked me if I am ever mistaken for a younger person. She said that I looked like a teenager...do you think that my appearance could be affecting what my profs are saying, or is that way off?

Could be. But I think most Anthro professors are skeptical of ANYONE going straight from undergrad to graduate school. It's quite difficult to gain entrance into Anthro PhD programs right after completing a BA, to be honest. This is particularly true in Anthropology, where social maturity & substantial experience in one's field site (including fluency in field languages) are crucial to successfully completing the PhD. Also keep in mind that PhD programs involve a large undergraduate teaching component (in other words, you will be teaching college students), so they really want PhD students who are mature enough to take on the role of university instructor. 

Everyone in my cohort (a well-regarded Cultural Anthro program) took at least 1-2 years off after college to work, travel, read, and have fun. I also have cohort mates who didn't return to graduate school in their late 20's, and now that I'm nearing the end of the program, many of us are now married with children of our own. I only say this to emphasize that grad school is a professional setting, and you'll be surrounded by and treated like an adult colleague. Grad programs want doctoral students who will enter this role seriously.