Thesis vs. Research Track

[FemmeFatale]

The moment of decision has come.  My program offers two options: write a traditional thesis, or do a research track.  The latter consists of taking three high-level courses for more credit hours, and writing substantially longer papers.  It all depends on whether you want to demonstrate depth of knowledge, or breadth of knowledge.

I have two questions...

1) My advisor, being a very practical man, thinks that it's only worth doing a thesis if you're going to continue on to a PhD program.  Otherwise, any job you can land with an MA isn't going to care whether or not you wrote a thesis.  Is he right?  Are there any other practical reasons why I should consider one over the other?  

2) If I end up deciding to get a PhD in a focus totally unrelated to my Masters thesis, is it even worth it to do one at this point?  Wouldn't I just need to start from scratch in a new program, anyway?

[GradSchoolTruther]

Answer to #2 is a thesis still matters. It shows you can finish a long-term project.

[TMP]

If your thesis can include archival research experience, all the better.  You need to demonstrate that you can carry out a research project that includes primary and secondary sources (and many, many, many revisions ).

[FemmeFatale]

thanks for the feedback everyone.  all of our professors encourage archival research in even our term papers, especially if they're on a local topic.  

after speaking with another professor, i am leaning more toward the research track.  he said that professionally, i'd be better off spending my time presenting at conferences and/or trying to publish a few of the many papers i've written that he thinks are quite stellar.  since PhD programs don't demand a thesis in particular (just a writing sample), it's only worth doing a thesis if i'm really contributing something new to the historiography and am really passionate about it.  The latter isn't really true.  

[knp]

If you don't want to do a PhD, the research track sounds like a great option! I can't think of a practical reason to write a thesis as preparation for almost any job in the workforce. (Advanced museum work would be one exception, but you don't mention the field(s) you're considering. You mention "professionally" at one point, but do you mean professionally within academia, or in another field, or potentially for both?) But since you say you're considering a PhD, I do think a master's thesis will prepare you for that better than a series of essays will, even if your PhD topic ends up being on a different subject/theme, region, and time period than your master's thesis was. As a writing teacher, I've found that writing papers of different lengths have something of an exponential effect as preparation for writing even longer papers. Back in college, writing two-page papers was a good preparation for writing five-page papers. Writing five-page papers was good preparation for writing 20-page papers. Writing 20-page papers was good preparation for writing 100-page theses/senior projects, etc. Each "level" scales up as good preparation for the next one. I'm pretty sure that a student can write five-page papers ad infinitum, and even if they write a hundred of them, that's still not going to prepare them for a hundred-page thesis as well as having written two twenty-page papers would have. Depending on the lengths we're talking about, a master's thesis might therefore provide much better PhD preparation than a greater number of shorter papers—although there are lengths that would make this not true, e.g. writing two 10,000 word+ papers might be just as good or better than a 15,000 word thesis.

But although I can't think of a way to ask this gently, but I think it needs to be asked since you are considering the PhD—if you can't find something you'd be really passionate to work on for the months required for a master's thesis, how do you think you will find something you can work passionately on for the 4+ years of writing a PhD dissertation?

[TMP]

20 hours ago, FemmeFatale said:

since PhD programs don't demand a thesis in particular (just a writing sample), it's only worth doing a thesis if i'm really contributing something new to the historiography and am really passionate about it.  The latter isn't really true.  

This is exactly the purpose of the MA thesis-- to test your stamina, level of passion, and willingness to finish such a big project.  If you can't imagine sticking to one topic for 9 months, then there will be doubts whether or not you can do a dissertation.  You will be married to your dissertation topic for at least 5 years.  The PhD is a research degree and it's the dissertation that makes it different from the MA.  It is very hard to write a 250 page dissertation when you lose passion for your topic, which can lead to leaving the program (by choice) or prolonging the finishing time.

Do you want to write a dissertation?  That's the big question you need to ask yourself when you choose which track you want to do.  While it is true that some of the PhD students move away from their MA thesis topic, they didn't get to their dissertation topic without their undergrad/MA thesis as a starting point.  Our intellectual journeys are a series of connecting dots.  That written, your MA thesis might very well be a springboard for your PhD dissertation, topically or methodologically.

[ashiepoo72]

My MA didn't have a thesis option, we only had comps and had to do at least two research-based courses (along with a bunch of colloquia). You don't need a thesis to do a PhD, to which I can attest. However, if you want to do a PhD and have the option to do a thesis, it's likely going to serve you well. Like TMP and knp pointed out, a thesis is longer than anything you'll write in the research track, which is excellent practice for a longer project. Spending that much time with a thesis will either confirm you have the stamina and interest level to do a PhD or it'll show you that longer-term projects aren't for you. You can split your thesis into one or more potential articles for publication. 

But, if you aren't sure about the PhD, I'd follow your professor's advice. Like I said, doing a research track isn't going to kill your chances at getting into a doctoral program. I worried about it when I first applied, but it didn't hurt me in the end because I showed sustained interest that would get me through a PhD by taking many research courses and always choosing paper topics that connected to my field in some way, even when the course was geographically or temporally outside of what I do. That's an option, too.

[Professor Plum]

My own experience: When I'm reviewing files and I find an applicant with an MA who had the option to do a thesis but chose some other track, it sends up a medium-sized red flag for me. At every program I've been involved with, the thesis track is the most difficult, and the other tracks are slightly less demanding. I'm a little skeptical of a prospective PhD student who did not choose the most rigorous option available in the MA program. (If you were reading the files, and had a choice between two students who were otherwise very closely matched, who would you choose--the student who had opted for the most challenging track, or the one who had elected to do something somewhat less difficult? Accepting a new student is like placing a big and costly bet, so most advisors will take many factors into account in trying to ascertain who's likely to finish and to do good work.)

This isn't a complete deal-breaker, and if the student is coming from an MA program that doesn't offer a thesis I don't treat it in the same way. But if you're fairly serious about applying for the PhD sometime down the road, a thesis strikes me as an important step. Doctoral admissions are incredibly competitive; why not give yourself every edge?

[FemmeFatale]

On 1/19/2016 at 3:57 PM, knp said:

But although I can't think of a way to ask this gently, but I think it needs to be asked since you are considering the PhD—if you can't find something you'd be really passionate to work on for the months required for a master's thesis, how do you think you will find something you can work passionately on for the 4+ years of writing a PhD dissertation?

It's not that I cannot find anything... I can think of several topics.  But none of them are well-covered by any professors in my department, and so it was discouraged.  I chose the topic I did because I've already written several papers on it.  I'm interested in it, and I think I could write a good paper.  But saying I'm passionate about it is a bit of a stretch.  I'm also not going to pursue a PhD until after a few years working.  If my track record thus far is any indication, my interests will probably change drastically after that time anyway.  

[FemmeFatale]

On 1/20/2016 at 10:56 AM, TMP said:

Do you want to write a dissertation?  That's the big question you need to ask yourself when you choose which track you want to do.  While it is true that some of the PhD students move away from their MA thesis topic, they didn't get to their dissertation topic without their undergrad/MA thesis as a starting point.  Our intellectual journeys are a series of connecting dots.  That written, your MA thesis might very well be a springboard for your PhD dissertation, topically or methodologically.

I'm still on the fence about pursuing a PhD.  I would only turn to it in the future if it'd benefit me professionally.  I don't have a real interest in teaching, although I did get a certificate in university teaching as something of a backup.  At this point, I'm interested in public history.  

But if I did a PhD, I know for a fact it'd have nothing to do with the thesis I had in mind.  The program I am currently in really doesn't have much of an emphasis in any of the topics I would want to spend years on.  

[FemmeFatale]

On 1/20/2016 at 0:48 PM, ashiepoo72 said:

I worried about it when I first applied, but it didn't hurt me in the end because I showed sustained interest that would get me through a PhD by taking many research courses and always choosing paper topics that connected to my field in some way, even when the course was geographically or temporally outside of what I do. That's an option, too.

I think that would apply to me.  I've written a total of three papers on cholera in St. Louis, which is the same subject I would have considered doing a thesis in.  I should also add that my advisor wasn't opposed to my topic... he just didn't think I could finish in the time I have left in the program (my TA position ends in December of this year, and that's when I'd want to graduate).  I've already been in the program a while, since some semesters I was only part-time.  He did say that if I still wanted to pursue the topic on a smaller scale, he'd help me prepare something for publication.  

[FemmeFatale]

On 1/21/2016 at 9:10 PM, Professor Plum said:

This isn't a complete deal-breaker, and if the student is coming from an MA program that doesn't offer a thesis I don't treat it in the same way. But if you're fairly serious about applying for the PhD sometime down the road, a thesis strikes me as an important step. Doctoral admissions are incredibly competitive; why not give yourself every edge?

Good point.  I suppose my advisor's train of thought is that I don't plan to jump into a PhD program right after receiving my MA.  He would rather have me focus on things that are going to get me hired, namely good exposure through conferences and publication.  As it stands, I have 3-4 different papers I am planning to edit for submission.  And that's not including doing what my advisor suggested: taking my proposed thesis topic and doing a journal article, instead.  Since I plan to graduate in December, it's more doable.  Based on where I'm at in research, a thesis would take me another semester to do.