Private vs. State. Is it worth it?

[nathancotephoto]

Cost of SVA: 80k. Cost of U of Arizona if i get full stipends, ta and tuition waver: 0$ (I have not applied yet) Is education invaluable? Are the educators, opportunities and being in NY worth 80k? (I state 80k with living expenses, school expenses and tuition for two years with no scholarships, I had a low gpa in undergrad)

I am posting this question as I am unable to justify the expense that is associated with private graduate schools. Does work not speak for itself? Or do we need our past instructors to speak for us and open doors? If the work is uninteresting i doubt there is anything they can do about it. I will be out of my undergrad debt this coming summer and really have no desire to enter debt again. How can one be free to work if they have a massive loan payment every month? If instructors 'open doors' to shows, galleries and editorial work(im a photographer) will it be at least a grand a month in 'open doors'? I see a lot of good work coming out of risd, Academy of Art S.F, sva and ICP but i see it out of other state schools as well. I looked into many of the professors at those schools and many of them came from state schools. From my perspective going to a state school and possibly a accruing 10k in debt i will be free to move anywhere, work anywhere and pursue any project i desire with very little financial burden. If i dont have to hold down an extra job or take on commercial work that doesn't benefit my art work wont that get me a head faster? Im tired of doing weddings just to get ahead. I'd like to teach after graduating and so i am looking for TA positions. These are just all thoughts and possibilities as i have not gone through this process before. I welcome any advice or comments!

-nathan

[DaisyO]

Hi there

What about Ohio State, or for that matter UCLA? Those are public and very good. I have to say, I went to a fancy MFA program, it was even comparitively cheap, and now I am deeply in debt and confused about why I didn't apply to those places (well, UCLA is super hard to get into but it's worth a shot). There is also Hunter (where I didn't get in), can't remember if you mentioned that...also you can apply to expensive places with the idea that you will go if you get a scholarship and not if you don't (though sometimes it would be hard to pass up I guess). The full scholarship at the Chicago Art Institute would be nice, for example.

So anyway, you don't have to go to the University of Arizona only, there are very good public places out there and other places may give you lots of money. The public places are also better for TA positions too, at my private MFA program the TAs just mostly made jokes with the professor and the undergrads and never got to plan any lessons or even take a glance at a syllabus. Might not seem important right this second, but it will later.

[nathancotephoto]

Well i think the TA position is really important. I feel if im going to give up another 2-3 years of my life to school and give more money rather than making it, i had better get something incredible in return. I.E. TA position, experience making a syllabus, experience teaching and the influence of working artists who are also instructors at the school. It has seemed in the past that many artists in the past would work outside of the standard "system" and now there are so many MFA programs churning out artists like Wisconsin churns butter. I think I just answered my own question.

If I went to a private school and only accrued 60k in debt minus the 30k I currently make a year and after 2 years that equals -120,000 dollars i would potentially have the ability to make. Ouch.

Maybe its just late and that all makes sense now.

[brianmc]

Nathan, I really don't think shelling out a ton of money for a private education in art is worth it. There are some good public universities that take their art programs very seriously and they pay pretty well to get good faculty. It is far too big of a risk to go deeply in debt for a private college, when you run the risk of getting there and finding out that you don't like your instructors at all. I graduated from MICA as an undergrad. I transferred in as a junior and had a great junior year and made some good breakthroughs as we had the opportunity to do independent work and it was my fourth year of art school and second doing my own work. My senior year was a whole different story. I had faculty who I found kind of discouraging because they didn't "get" what I was trying to do. I edited my work so much for them, that by mid-year I didn't enjoy making it anymore and didn't even consider graduate school. I didn't paint for almost a year after school and then only sporadically for about six years. I did eventually renounce everything they said to me and adopted a "who cares what anybody thinks, it's my art" attitude and have been painting regularly for a couple of years now. I am thinking about grad school after ten years off, and for some reason I feel resistant to the idea of applying to Yale or any other top programs because I don't want to go somewhere that has an attitude that they know what good art is. I don't claim to, but I do know when I go gallery hopping or look at work online, that about 90% of what I see doesn't interest me at all. That doesn't make it bad. I, like most people, tend to gravitate towards work similar to my own, but I am terrified of landing in a grad program where they try to change me. The instructors are the artists of today, and they may be in tune with what is going on in galleries and museums, but we are the artists of tomorrow. If our generation is going to make important art then we can't really place too much importance on what the status quo thinks. You could go to the cheapest college you can find and as long as there are other students there that are passionate about creating and the facilities are adequate, you can have a wonderful grad experience. At least that is how I feel. As far as business contacts and referrals from faculty, I don't know how that works. Essentially, you are competition to your faculty members for all of the jobs and exhibition opportunities. Sure curators and gallery owners come into some of the top programs and occasionally choose to represent grad students that they find, but if your work is what they are looking for there are other ways to put it in front of them. I don't think that opportunity is worth $100,000. You wouldn't spend $100,000 on a lottery ticket. And then there are the TA positions, which are just a joke at private art colleges. I had TAs and they didn't do anything. They may chime in during critique, but that is about it. Parent's who are paying over $30,000 a year in tuition don't want students teaching their spoiled children. Major universities will utilize you as a TA much more. You may even find yourself teaching your own courses. What state are you a resident of anyway? I would consider the larger universities there for in-state tuition. Of course, still apply to your dream schools, you never know, you might get a full ride, but don't just apply based on what U.S. News and World Report says. What the hell do they know? And keep in mind that private colleges are a business. The more they give in scholarships, the less profit they make. Most businesses don't like less profit. I'm sure they have to give away some in order to ask for donations from alumni and to get grants from the states and federal government. Just something to chew on.

[~*~]

This is a link to a great discussion on Joanne Mattera's blog about the MFA degree and financing it ...

http://joannemattera.blogspot.com/2006/05/marketing-mondays-mfa.html

[nathancotephoto]

I had found out a couple of the private schools in NY weren't non-profit and decided not to apply to them. Im not supporting that system of exploiting young people who have no understanding of 100 thousand dollars of debt. It seems like they are taking advantage of students. Anyway, i am a resident of North Dakota. There are VERY little opportunities here for artists. Any grants to be found are in the region of 2-10,000 dollars. Career artists of 20 years have opportunities for larger grants. There isnt an MFA program in our state and the closest i would consider is Minneapolis and i do not enjoy the work that comes out of their program. I 'think' i would love to go to Yale. I havent taken the time to go visit, but if i get accepted with a lot of aid ill make the trip. I am going to apply to Notre Dame, ASU, possibly UNM, U of Nevada Las Vegas, U con and a couple others because they tend to offer good funding and TA opportunities. I feel its a necessity as i have very little connection with the 'art world', being from north dakota. I dont care to move to NY and work just to pay for my apt and have very little time to work my art and then try in the spare time that wont exist meet with gallery owners. I have no network of artists i know(save a few in the city i did my undergrad in, Fargo), i am showing in a gallery in Fargo and that is the only gallery i am exhibiting my work. I dont feel like i have a better option and i am sure my work would greatly benefit from an MFA program where i am getting paid to go as well as a TA position even if i dont end up teaching for years down the road. I have a show coming up in a week and im stoked, im just tired of showing in No Dak. Most folks around here are sheltered. if you want to check out my work go to www.flickr.com/nathancotephotography

[nathancotephoto]

one other note: I was accepted to rutgers, with no funding. Why would like to ask them why i would consider them with out funding? It would probably be taken offensively but its an honest question. I find no reason and i will be applying again for funding or scholarships for this next fall. I deferred it just so i could reapply for funding.

[brianmc]

Rutgers has a pretty healthy reputation. Definitely see if you can get some money out of them this year. I am thinking of applying there for painting. The Tyler School of Art at Temple University in Philadelphia is a public school as well, that you may want to consider. Philly is only about two hours from NYC and is a really cool town and somewhat cheaper than NY. Also, I've heard that the University of Delaware funds about 70% of their grad art students with either tuition remission or TA positions that offer a stipend. U of D is about 45 minutes from Philly and an hour from Baltimore, about two hours to NY and DC. I'm probably applying to those three along with the University of Maryand and Towson University in Baltimore, both of which would be in-state tuition for me. Your photos look great. The landscapes are beautiful. You guys have an amazing view of the sky out there. Love the photo of the Zipper too.

[John Transue]

I went to University of Delaware for undergrad. The facilities aren't very large, but some of the professors there are really wonderful. Also, they just opened a gallery annex in Philadelphia. I must say however, part of what you are paying for at those expensive schools are networking opportunities. Not too much of that going on in Delaware.

[brianmc]

John, I would love more feedback on Delaware. By the size of the facilities, do you mean overall, or the actual grad studios? Also what faculty do you like? I've heard great things about Lance Winn, and I've met Bob Straight before. Did you ever work with Peter Williams? I'm wondering what he's like as faculty. I know he's been in the Whitney Biennial, but is he a good teacher? I'm kind of excited by Delaware because they've made efforts to build their program in recent years by recruiting guys like Peter Williams and opening the space in Northern Liberties in Philly. Newark will never be the center of the Art world, but neither will any of the other towns where other programs I'm interested in are located. I'm only about 20 miles from U of D now. It would be an easy transition. I could keep my bartending gig one night a week for a little spending money.

[nathancotephoto]

I think i like the idea of going to school outside of a major metropolitan area with the hopes that it i easier to work. Maybe less distraction. U of Del is only 45min from Philadelphia and so that is easy enough to get to any show. My 'plan' as of right now is to go to a smaller state school, get out with zero-little debt and then if i decide to move to Art Mecca, NY, then i will do so with that little or no debt. I am planning on being free from the burdens of massive school debt to work. I think my mind is made up unless SVA offers me a full ride with 1000$ a month stipend.

[nathancotephoto]

I think i like the idea of going to school outside of a major metropolitan area with the hopes that it i easier to work. Maybe less distraction. U of Del is only 45min from Philadelphia and so that is easy enough to get to any show. My 'plan' as of right now is to go to a smaller state school, get out with zero-little debt and then if i decide to move to Art Mecca, NY, then i will do so with that little or no debt. I am planning on being free from the burdens of massive school debt to work. I think my mind is made up unless SVA offers me a full ride with 1000$ a month stipend.

After rereading that last post and noticing all of the typos, a full ride to SVA might be out of reach.

[luar de ouro]

Rutgers has a pretty healthy reputation. Definitely see if you can get some money out of them this year. I am thinking of applying there for painting. The Tyler School of Art at Temple University in Philadelphia is a public school as well, that you may want to consider. Philly is only about two hours from NYC and is a really cool town and somewhat cheaper than NY. Also, I've heard that the University of Delaware funds about 70% of their grad art students with either tuition remission or TA positions that offer a stipend. U of D is about 45 minutes from Philly and an hour from Baltimore, about two hours to NY and DC. I'm probably applying to those three along with the University of Maryand and Towson University in Baltimore, both of which would be in-state tuition for me. Your photos look great. The landscapes are beautiful. You guys have an amazing view of the sky out there. Love the photo of the Zipper too.

I wonder if it's too late to caution you against applying to Mason Gross School at Rutgers...the school's been making tons of cuts during my time there, and I feel like it's a program that's being slowly abandoned

[brianmc]

Thanks for the heads up on Mason Gross. I ended up only applying to Towson this year. It's not a U.S. News top pic for art, but the head of the Grad Program there used to teach printmaking at MICA when I was there and students in that department really seemed to think a lot of her. Also, I really really want to move back to Baltimore. I'm sort of marginal in how I fit into the art world and there is no better place on Earth to be marginal than Baltimore, MD.