University of British Columbia

[bcoheran]

Does anybody know what the University of British Columbia's and the University of Alberta's Political Science PhD reputation are?  I've applied to both and am wondering which has the better post graduate work prospects?

[ultraultra]

UBC by a long shot

[twinsora]

17 hours ago, ultraultra said:

UBC by a long shot

Second that. 

 

[bcoheran]

That's what I thought.  Though from what I've heard, Alberta has better funding.

[puddle]

UBC... There are better funding packages elsewhere but some part of this is that UBC expects you to come in with SSHRC. If you don't hold one already, they will make you apply each year you are there.

[Determinedandnervous]

Also, Alberta may have better funding, but UBC will be more likely to get you a job. In the long run, this is more important.

[PoliticalOrder]

^

Even UBC's placement record is fairly poor though, less than 50% of Ph.D. graduates get placed in TT, and the most notable ones listed....well are not that notable at all:

McMaster University

York University

University of Western Ontario

Queen’s University

National University Singapore

University of Tokyo

University of Queensland

University of Southern Denmark

University of South Florida

Memorial University

University of Manitoba

University of Victoria

 

[PoliticalOrder]

Honestly, I would think long and hard about doing a Ph.D. at either of these schools. 

[ultraultra]

5 hours ago, PoliticalOrder said:

^

Even UBC's placement record is fairly poor though, less than 50% of Ph.D. graduates get placed in TT, and the most notable ones listed....well are not that notable at all:

McMaster University

York University

University of Western Ontario

Queen’s University

National University Singapore

University of Tokyo

University of Queensland

University of Southern Denmark

University of South Florida

Memorial University

University of Manitoba

University of Victoria

 

If your frame of reference is top US research universities, sure. But some of these are top Canadian universities. It depends what OP wants at the end of the day.

[PoliticalOrder]

18 hours ago, ultraultra said:

If your frame of reference is top US research universities, sure. But some of these are top Canadian universities. It depends what OP wants at the end of the day.

That wasn't my frame of reference.

But when you go to a Ph.D. program that in its entire history has their best placements at Carleton, York, and Queen's, you need to really consider how to improve your options.

Basically you are looking at a >50% chance of not being placed and a 5% change of getting placed at a decent university in Canada. And essentially a 0% chance of having any penetration internationally at renowned political science research universities.

Edited January 19, 2016 by PoliticalOrder

[TakeruK]

2 hours ago, PoliticalOrder said:

That wasn't my frame of reference.

But when you go to a Ph.D. program that in its entire history has their best placements at Carleton, York, and Queen's, you need to really consider how to improve your options.

Basically you are looking at a >50% chance of not being placed and a 5% change of getting placed at a decent university in Canada. And essentially a 0% chance of having any penetration internationally at renowned political science research universities.

Yes, but as ultraultra says, it depends on the OP's goals. If you want to just work at any school in Canada, then the placement record is pretty good. I agree with you that since top Canadian schools are not competitive with top US schools (across almost all fields---at UBC Physics, almost all of the professors have PhDs from top US schools), if your goal is to end up on the TT at top international schools, then there are many choices better than UBC. But this isn't everyone's goal!

[PoliticalOrder]

That argument makes zero sense. We can all assume that the goal of anyone going into a Ph.D. program in political science is to attain a TT job (because there is not really much else as far as value for a Ph.D. in political science)...then you are best to go to programs that give you the best chances of that. 

Saying, well not everyone's goal is to get a TT from a top international school then going to mediocre X program is fine is not logically consistent. Regardless of goals, the most important thing is to reduce risk, one way (and perhaps the most reliable) is to go to the best ranked programs and get the best training. 

For example, a Ph.D. graduate from University of Toronto has a much greater ability to reach any goal they might wish as far as TT goes than someone who graduates from UBC. So why wouldn't you try to maximize your potential by applying more widely and to the best programs?

All I am saying, and this is based on limited information, is that if your only choices (or if the only two programs you applied to) are UBC and U of A, then I would think twice about going to either of these programs because neither (although UBC is clearly superior) is going to give you significant prospects for getting a TT job anywhere. Just a word of caution, especially since the question the OP asked is directly related to placement.

[TakeruK]

57 minutes ago, PoliticalOrder said:

That argument makes zero sense. We can all assume that the goal of anyone going into a Ph.D. program in political science is to attain a TT job (because there is not really much else as far as value for a Ph.D. in political science)...then you are best to go to programs that give you the best chances of that. 

Saying, well not everyone's goal is to get a TT from a top international school then going to mediocre X program is fine is not logically consistent. Regardless of goals, the most important thing is to reduce risk, one way (and perhaps the most reliable) is to go to the best ranked programs and get the best training. 

For example, a Ph.D. graduate from University of Toronto has a much greater ability to reach any goal they might wish as far as TT goes than someone who graduates from UBC. So why wouldn't you try to maximize your potential by applying more widely and to the best programs?

All I am saying, and this is based on limited information, is that if your only choices (or if the only two programs you applied to) are UBC and U of A, then I would think twice about going to either of these programs because neither (although UBC is clearly superior) is going to give you significant prospects for getting a TT job anywhere. Just a word of caution, especially since the question the OP asked is directly related to placement.

I agree with you that getting a PhD from a better school maximizes your potential for any goal. But I am sure you would agree that there are such things as diminishing returns and that there are other costs to attending a better ranked school as well.

For example, let's say for an example applicant, attending School A increases your chances of getting a TT job by X% compared to attending School B. But, for this same applicant, they have a lot of other personal reasons to prefer to be at School B. Maybe a partner has a job in that city. Maybe they prefer the weather. Maybe they have family nearby. Maybe they prefer living in B rather than A. So, then whether the X% increase in chances is worth the whatever decrease in happiness is worth it is dependent on each applicant. It's a personal decision---I don't think it's correct to generally say it's always better for the applicant to attend the school that maximizes their chances of acheiving their career goal. In my opinion, it's better to attend the school that maximizes your overall happiness (and yes, achieving career goals contributes to happiness, but I personally would take a decrease in TT chances in order to avoid living in certain areas, for example).

And by "diminishing returns" I mean that X% is a number that also changes based on what kind of jobs you're looking at. For example, using the same names as above, when it comes to placement at the very best schools, X% might be a large number, but if you are looking at small schools that aren't as well ranked, then School A and School B might look more similar to a hiring committee. 

In regards to your last paragraph, yes I agree that we don't know any of this other information about a person's goals and motivations. However, if we only use the limited information (i.e. the only two choices are UBC and U of A) then I would still say picking any one of the two choices will have a higher chance of getting a TT job than picking none of them (since this would be 0% chance). 

In addition, the original question is not "how do I best maximize my chances of getting a TT job?" (if this were the question, then I'd agree that a better ranked school would further increase the chances) but it is "out of these two options, which one has the better placement rate?". So, I don't think "none of the above" is a good answer to a question that asks to pick one out of two. 

[PoliticalOrder]

1 hour ago, TakeruK said:

For example, let's say for an example applicant, attending School A increases your chances of getting a TT job by X% compared to attending School B. But, for this same applicant, they have a lot of other personal reasons to prefer to be at School B. Maybe a partner has a job in that city. Maybe they prefer the weather. Maybe they have family nearby. Maybe they prefer living in B rather than A. So, then whether the X% increase in chances is worth the whatever decrease in happiness is worth it is dependent on each applicant. It's a personal decision---I don't think it's correct to generally say it's always better for the applicant to attend the school that maximizes their chances of acheiving their career goal. In my opinion, it's better to attend the school that maximizes your overall happiness (and yes, achieving career goals contributes to happiness, but I personally would take a decrease in TT chances in order to avoid living in certain areas, for example).

I don't disagree with this. You are correct that some people have 'other' preferences when deciding on graduate schools.

However, I do not agree with this:

"In regards to your last paragraph, yes I agree that we don't know any of this other information about a person's goals and motivations. However, if we only use the limited information (i.e. the only two choices are UBC and U of A) then I would still say picking any one of the two choices will have a higher chance of getting a TT job than picking none of them (since this would be 0% chance)."

There is really no downside to applying to graduate schools next year besides marginal costs. Grad school applications are not a zero-sum game, you can always partake in another cycle. 

"In addition, the original question is not "how do I best maximize my chances of getting a TT job?" (if this were the question, then I'd agree that a better ranked school would further increase the chances) but it is "out of these two options, which one has the better placement rate?". So, I don't think "none of the above" is a good answer to a question that asks to pick one out of two."

Yeah, but my point is that if you are concerned about placement, which the OP is, then you should be weary of attending either of these programs. That's all.

Regardless, I don't think we can really continue this discussion without more information from the OP...so I'll leave it at that.

Edited January 20, 2016 by PoliticalOrder