Would YOU turn down Harvard?

[Gvh]

If you end up admitted and are thinking about attending, feel free to PM me! Happy to answer any other questions I can

[Vulpix]

Well, I am now in this fortunate position, of having to choose between Penn and Harvard.  Pending more critical scholarship information.  Anyone else in a similar boat?  I have to say, my family's reaction, and the reaction of Facebook, of my Harvard acceptance vs. Penn, is notable.  People were happy for me when I got into Penn, but every person I know freaked about Harvard.  That does say something to me about perhaps how powerful that degree could be, in terms of employment and networking down the road.  

[pterosaur]

I'm also considering Harvard as one of my options, though for an engineering PhD. I haven't widely distributed news of my acceptances on social media partly because I don't want these sort of influences do have an undue effect.

[EpiGirl2016]

8 minutes ago, pterosaur said:

I'm also considering Harvard as one of my options, though for an engineering PhD. I haven't widely distributed news of my acceptances on social media partly because I don't want these sort of influences do have an undue effect.

Same^ Though not for engineering, for me it is public health. I'm trying to limit the influence people who have no bearing on my decision will provide. I get asked multiple times a day how my grad school decision making process is going and I always say "I'm choosing between PhD programs at UNC and Harvard" and people outside of the field ALWAYS say "how is that even a question?" and people from inside the field either say "you can't make a wrong decision" or if anything they steer me more towards UNC (Harvard and UNC are both ranked #2 for schools of public health). I always keep in mind that yes it would be cool to be able to say "I got my PhD from Harvard," the only people I need to truly impress are those in my field and that is what matters the most. It's easy to get fixated on a name.

[Vulpix]

Yes, most "outsiders" have already assumed I will pick Harvard, but everyone else just says "there's no wrong choice."  I just don't want to have any regrets.

[bicsy]

I'm choosing between Harvard and some other programs as well. I'm torn because the other programs I'm considering are also top 5 in my field, and I think I fit better with these other programs than I do at Harvard's. But everyone I've talked to is so awestruck at Harvard that it makes me feel like I'll make the wrong decision by turning it down. 

Fortunately I also have avoided announcing anything about my admissions on social media, and am only planning on posting something when I finally commit to a program. 

[GlobNomad]

Harvard and Penn are my top choices. But since I'm still abroad, I've decided not to apply until I can visit both places. Harvard is Harvard - I mean, their name is so big it's all anyone thinks about. Penn's IEDP just seems like such a great program - and it's pretty impressive what they've achieved given how young the program is (compared to Harvard and TC etc). It's as if they've really thought things through and looked at what the competitors offered and tried to one up them all. It's the perfect program for me and the internship sounds amazing! So given its 10 courses plus an internship (which they fund!), I think that sort of makes up the cost difference (okay not really, am trying to talk myself into this). Actually, Philly is a lot cheaper than Cambridge so there's that too. Anyway, I'm glad I don't have to make this decision this year! Who knows, maybe I'll feel differently about Harvard after I visit... I guess I don't want to be one of those people who thinks about the name only...

Edited March 11, 2016 by GlobNomad

[Vulpix]

1 hour ago, GlobNomad said:

Harvard and Penn are my top choices. But since I'm still abroad, I've decided not to apply until I can visit both places. Harvard is Harvard - I mean, their name is so big it's all anyone thinks about. Penn's IEDP just seems like such a great program - and it's pretty impressive what they've achieved given how young the program is (compared to Harvard and TC etc). It's as if they've really thought things through and looked at what the competitors offered and tried to one up them all. It's the perfect program for me and the internship sounds amazing! So given its 10 courses plus an internship (which they fund!), I think that sort of makes up the cost difference (okay not really, am trying to talk myself into this). Actually, Philly is a lot cheaper than Cambridge so there's that too. Anyway, I'm glad I don't have to make this decision this year! Who knows, maybe I'll feel differently about Harvard after I visit... I guess I don't want to be one of those people who thinks about the name only...

I think the costs are just about even (Cheaper HGSE program + Cambridge = Pricier Penn program + Philly).  I'm still waiting on funding from Harvard now that I've been accepted.  I met with a coworker who went to Harvard, and she was also deciding between Penn and HGSE (for a closely related, but not identical, program).  She said she visited both schools and left feeling that Harvard's vast network of opportunities just seemed far greater than Penn's.  I will see if I feel similarly when I visit.  I have felt very personally invested in Penn (because it was my first acceptance in January, so I had two months of nothing but Penn to bask in), and one of the main professors reached out, and we have a mutual colleague who we talked about.  A Harvard student just called me last night from my program to answer questions and give advice, and she was also in the same position.  She gave me so many examples of the ways in which HGSE students just seem to have unlimited opportunities for such cool projects, so it was very reassuring talking to her about it.

Now that I've been accepted, all anyone I mention it to just says "Without a doubt I'd go to Harvard."  Obviously they know nothing of my program or goals, which most logical people would say is the key factor.  That being said, these are also smart peers who work with me in education and are saying "It's so rare to get the opportunity to go there, get that degree. You don't pass up that chance.  Penn is an amazing school, but..."

There is something to be said for the Harvard name working in the international field, which is what I'm going into.  Not going there for the name itself, but for the purposes of what the name can do to provide me with the most amazing opportunities imaginable.  The student I talked to on the phone said, for example, that for one of her classes, part of the class itself was to be a paid consultant for UNICEF.  How incredible.  Another class, they got to design a curriculum for Iraq's ministry of education and several of them got to travel to different countries to advise governments.  Some students were guests at a palace in South America with their professor over spring break.  I just feel like the possibilities are endless there, and even though I like a lot of components about Penn's program specifically, I don't want to always wonder what I could have been missing out on at Harvard.

These are just my current musings!  I'm hoping my visits to both at the end of the month will bring clarity!

[Vulpix]

On 3/6/2016 at 8:07 PM, bicsy said:

I'm choosing between Harvard and some other programs as well. I'm torn because the other programs I'm considering are also top 5 in my field, and I think I fit better with these other programs than I do at Harvard's. But everyone I've talked to is so awestruck at Harvard that it makes me feel like I'll make the wrong decision by turning it down. 

Fortunately I also have avoided announcing anything about my admissions on social media, and am only planning on posting something when I finally commit to a program. 

When I met with my coworker who is a Harvard alum, while she was effusive in her praise of the school and support for me to go there, she was quick to say, "Listen, there's nothing wrong with saying NO to Harvard.  In fact, it's kind of badass."  

[BeaLaCuriosa]

 

Guys I am back again

I am in an equally tougher position. I've been accepted by my 2 top choice schools same program different countries but one Master and the other PhD

What makes it complicated is that the Master's level program is from Harvard and the other one is a PhD with full funding. 

Even though I wanted the Ph.D from Harvard the idea of a 1 year masters is also appealing because I am switching disciplines and it'd be nice to test the ropes to know what i am getting myself into. But I wish I could defer the PhD from Toronto and go to Harvard for a year and then attend the other one. Wishful thinking? 

What do I do? As for Upenn I don't care much for them anymore because they apparently won't review my application without receiving official transcripts from WES. I  am not willing to spend money on finding out their decision because: not to sound pompous, if i got into Harvard and Toronto I know what the answer is going to be and i'm ok with the dilemma of 2 decisions. I am so grateful to God for

giving me the opportunity to choose  and I am praying for wisdom to choose between these 2 or make an exception for me to go to both: because guess what Nothing is impossible with God.

[blacknighterrant]

48 minutes ago, BeaLaCuriosa said:

 

Guys I am back again

I am in an equally tougher position. I've been accepted by my 2 top choice schools same program different countries but one Master and the other PhD

What makes it complicated is that the Master's level program is from Harvard and the other one is a PhD with full funding. 

Even though I wanted the Ph.D from Harvard the idea of a 1 year masters is also appealing because I am switching disciplines and it'd be nice to test the ropes to know what i am getting myself into. But I wish I could defer the PhD from Toronto and go to Harvard for a year and then attend the other one. Wishful thinking? 

What do I do? As for Upenn I don't care much for them anymore because they apparently won't review my application without receiving official transcripts from WES. I  am not willing to spend money on finding out their decision because: not to sound pompous, if i got into Harvard and Toronto I know what the answer is going to be and i'm ok with the dilemma of 2 decisions. I am so grateful to God for

giving me the opportunity to choose  and I am praying for wisdom to choose between these 2 or make an exception for me to go to both: because guess what Nothing is impossible with God.

Well if you really want to, it may be possible to defer entry for a year if you contact the program, so then you could do the year masters then go to the PhD program. Honestly though, it is a waste of time. Honestly, this is an easy decision, the general rule is always choose PhD program over masters if that a PhD is your final goal (assuming that the PhD program is not significantly worse than the school where you would get the masters, remember though that adviser reputation and research fit is more important than school reputation at PhD level).

[Vulpix]

I agree in general that the PhD with full funding (at presumably a good school) is a better option.  However, I found myself in a similar mindset about a year ago regarding "testing the ropes" and knowing what I'm getting into.  I have a masters degree, but am switching fields.  I was originally going to apply straight to doctoral programs, because I didn't see the point in having a second masters/thought it would be weird to do.  However, I quickly realized that, even if I got accepted to the doctoral programs, I wouldn't really know what I was getting myself into, having never exactly studied it before (international ed. development, like you).  So I decided I should get a second masters as a means of entering the workforce in this field, gaining more relevant experience, gauging my interest in it, and then re-evaluate my passion/PhD goals much further down the line.  If you aren't 100% positive that this is something you would enjoy studying with the intensity of the PhD, then that would be the primary reason I might say to opt for the masters. 

Edited March 12, 2016 by Heather1011

[cwr]

I suppose I'm in a similar situation to the OP, since I'm trying to weigh all sorts of factors (fit, advisor/research compatibility, quality of life, prestige, etc.) in a really tough decision. At the moment, I'm most torn between Princeton and Chicago for a (high-energy physics) PhD. Certainly, one is a more recognizable name, but – like Penn and Harvard – they're both prestigious schools with a "name brand." 

The worst part about a "problem" like these is that you can't really convince any reasonable person that it's a problem.

Any idea which way you're leaning at this point, OP?

[juilletmercredi]

To the OP, I want to come back to the obvious point that others have alluded to, but haven't explicitly said: You're comparing Penn and Harvard. Penn and Harvard. It's not like you're comparing, let's say, UGA and Harvard or Binghamton and Harvard - both very good schools, not quite the same name recognition. Penn is an Ivy League school with an excellent reputation, especially in education - they're both top 10 programs in that field. Yes, Harvard will give you connections, but so will Penn. You'll still have that elite, connected network that you want. That said, I do agree that for a one-year master's I would probably value post-graduation connections more than the experience itself (especially since both Philadelphia and Boston could lead to a good experience), but I doubt there will be significant differences in the level of your connections and ability to land a job after graduation - not at a level that would hold you back at Penn.

People react crazily when you say "Harvard" because Harvard has managed to do a really good job in promoting its name and its usually the school people associate with top prestige. That doesn't mean anything, though. It's like saying you drive a Tesla instead of a Fisker - more people are familiar with the former but they're both luxury electric cars. That, in and of itself, is not a good reason to choose a Tesla over a Fisker - or Harvard over Penn.

Honestly, I chose not to even apply to Harvard when I was applying for public health programs. They didn't have what I wanted.

[Vulpix]

7 hours ago, cwr said:

I suppose I'm in a similar situation to the OP, since I'm trying to weigh all sorts of factors (fit, advisor/research compatibility, quality of life, prestige, etc.) in a really tough decision. At the moment, I'm most torn between Princeton and Chicago for a (high-energy physics) PhD. Certainly, one is a more recognizable name, but – like Penn and Harvard – they're both prestigious schools with a "name brand." 

The worst part about a "problem" like these is that you can't really convince any reasonable person that it's a problem.

Any idea which way you're leaning at this point, OP?

Right now I'm leaning Harvard.  It's hard to say why.  Mostly because they're pretty equal programs, so why not go to Harvard?

4 hours ago, juilletmercredi said:

To the OP, I want to come back to the obvious point that others have alluded to, but haven't explicitly said: You're comparing Penn and Harvard. Penn and Harvard. It's not like you're comparing, let's say, UGA and Harvard or Binghamton and Harvard - both very good schools, not quite the same name recognition. Penn is an Ivy League school with an excellent reputation, especially in education - they're both top 10 programs in that field. Yes, Harvard will give you connections, but so will Penn. You'll still have that elite, connected network that you want. That said, I do agree that for a one-year master's I would probably value post-graduation connections more than the experience itself (especially since both Philadelphia and Boston could lead to a good experience), but I doubt there will be significant differences in the level of your connections and ability to land a job after graduation - not at a level that would hold you back at Penn.

People react crazily when you say "Harvard" because Harvard has managed to do a really good job in promoting its name and its usually the school people associate with top prestige. That doesn't mean anything, though. It's like saying you drive a Tesla instead of a Fisker - more people are familiar with the former but they're both luxury electric cars. That, in and of itself, is not a good reason to choose a Tesla over a Fisker - or Harvard over Penn.

Honestly, I chose not to even apply to Harvard when I was applying for public health programs. They didn't have what I wanted.

I know that both programs are phenomenal and will award be great opportunities.  As cwr said, "you can't really convince any reasonable person that it's a problem."  It's still a worthy debate.  I know the difference is oranges and oranges.  That being said, I think you did get at what I'm getting at---for a one year master's, night as well get the biggest bang for your buck, which might be Harvard.

[juilletmercredi]

Well, my counter is that you can say the same thing about Penn - they're pretty equal programs, so why not go to Penn?

I think you just have to examine your own reasoning. If it's because you're absolutely delighted by the idea of being able to tell people you went to Harvard, I think you should probably spend a little more time thinking and making a decision. If it's because you truly believe that the connections and opportunities out of Harvard will be better than out of Penn, then you've made your choice.

[Vulpix]

10 minutes ago, juilletmercredi said:

Well, my counter is that you can say the same thing about Penn - they're pretty equal programs, so why not go to Penn?

I think you just have to examine your own reasoning. If it's because you're absolutely delighted by the idea of being able to tell people you went to Harvard, I think you should probably spend a little more time thinking and making a decision. If it's because you truly believe that the connections and opportunities out of Harvard will be better than out of Penn, then you've made your choice.

At this point I think it's both.

[charlemagne88]

Most "success" now-a-days depends on who you know and prestige. I'd choose Harvard. (and I verbalized that end punctuation).  

Edited March 12, 2016 by charlemagne88

[svent]

Going to school is the beginning of your career, not the end. If the name of your school is your biggest accomplishment by the time you die, you had a sad life.

[Vulpix]

5 hours ago, svent said:

Going to school is the beginning of your career, not the end. If the name of your school is your biggest accomplishment by the time you die, you had a sad life.

I think you're missing the point about the importance of making this decision, or any decision.  I don't want the name of my school to be my accomplishment at all, I just want to consider what doors the name of my school might open for me.  And in talking with alums of Harvard, it seems like... unlimited doors.  That is worth considering.

[GlobNomad]

So, is your sense that Penn won't give you similar opportunities? I know Harvard is a big name, but Penn stands pretty well on their own too...

[GlobNomad]

Also, have you spoken to any Penn alums?

[svent]

Whatever. I think they're both good schools that also happen to have extremely overpriced Master's programs in many fields that are basically $50k/year networking events. I'd never pay for something like that. There's a reason half their programs are substantially easier to get into than their undergrad program.

[Vulpix]

1 hour ago, GlobNomad said:

So, is your sense that Penn won't give you similar opportunities? I know Harvard is a big name, but Penn stands pretty well on their own too...

 

1 hour ago, GlobNomad said:

Also, have you spoken to any Penn alums?

My sense in talking to Harvard students who were choosing between the two schools is that they felt Harvard had more opportunities available.  Penn students seem pleased with their situation as well.  I have spoken to alums, and both seem pleased with their experiences.  Some Penn people seemed a little unsure about their prospects after graduation, whereas Harvard students said they had many leads/interviews for jobs lined up.

53 minutes ago, svent said:

Whatever. I think they're both good schools that also happen to have extremely overpriced Master's programs in many fields that are basically $50k/year networking events. I'd never pay for something like that. There's a reason half their programs are substantially easier to get into than their undergrad program.

OK, if you have such negative feelings or think these schools are not worth it, then maybe you are in the wrong thread.  I happen to be making a choice between them.  And the last point is irrelevant, comparing undergrad to graduate programs.  Personally, I saved up money for several years in order to pursue the study of something I am enormously passionate about, and want to get the best education possible.  I worked for three years since college, have saved up more than the cost of tuition at either school, so I will not need to go into any debt (or very little) to achieve my goals.  I recently finished a masters (in something I'm not passionate about) at a financially cheap, public CUNY, and found the education wildly unfulfilling.  I don't want to replicate that experience for a field I care so deeply about, which is why I personally want to go to the best schools.  Now that I am choosing between two great schools, I have to figure out where all that $$ will get me the furthest.  Since you think it's a $50k/year networking event, then please help me figure out which event has the better party  

Edited March 13, 2016 by Heather1011

[GlobNomad]

I think you've already made up your mind (even though you're not admitting it) to go to Harvard. Nothing wrong with that. If I were in the same situation, I would choose the school that puts me in less debt since they're both good schools.