Help! Concerns regarding clinical psychology offer

[Aminoacidalanine]

I received an offer from an US clinical psychology PhD program and I have some areas of concern. Any constructive advice is highly appreciated!

 

1) POI has been an associate professor for a long time, and I know people who are full professors but have been in the field for a shorter time, because promotion depends on productivity in research and teaching, I was wondering how important this is and how this might affect my career. 

 

2) The average graduation time for the program is more than 7 years, I was told that this is due to funding and clinical hours. How big is this an issue and is it common for clinical psychology? Could there be other reasons?

 

3) The POI currently has no research grants, and I was wondering why this might be and if this will reduce my research and publication opportunities.

 

Please don't hesitate to ask me to clarify anything! Good luck in your graduate applications!

 

[Applicant 1746]

Congrats on the offer!

I can't speak much to point #2, but to point #1, I would consider other metrics besides the professor's rank. To assess research productivity, you could take a look at # of publications put out by POI/POI's lab in recent years (and whether grad students are often co-authors on these papers), as well as any recently-received grants. In terms of teaching, talking candidly with current grad students about POI's mentorship would be a good source of info. Good luck!

[Aminoacidalanine]

3 minutes ago, Applicant 1746 said:

Congrats on the offer!

I can't speak much to point #2, but to point #1, I would consider other metrics besides the professor's rank. To assess research productivity, you could take a look at # of publications put out by POI/POI's lab in recent years (and whether grad students are often co-authors on these papers), as well as any recently-received grants. In terms of teaching, talking candidly with current grad students about POI's mentorship would be a good source of info. Good luck!

Thank you for your advice! I forgot to mention that the POI currently has no grants (I edited my original post to include this). I have also checked out his publications, but it looks like his 5th year student only has 1 publication so far. So I'm concerned that the lack of grants has negatively impacted his students' publication opportunities. None of his students had greater than 4 publications while working with him.

[Applicant#1000]

Speak to his current grad students. See what they have to say about the POI and their experience with him

[Aminoacidalanine]

2 minutes ago, Applicant#1000 said:

Speak to his current grad students. See what they have to say about the POI and their experience with him

Thanks, but I've already spoken with them and only heard positive things. I am considering talking to these graduate students again but I would probably have to make up some more specific questions. Most graduate students are very reluctant to say anything negative about their mentor. 

[MarineBluePsy]

My responses are from the perspective of an applicant researching POIs to apply to.....

1)  Is this a Canadian or a US program?  I ask only because there may be a difference in the "usual" time to gain full professorship.  Also did this professor take some time off.....maternity/paternity leave, illness, sabbatical to work on a project outside of academia, caring for child/parent/spouse, etc?  Does this professor also run a private practice?  If so maybe they don't want full professorship and like the balance they currently have.  It is very appropriate for you to ask a POI where they see their career going in the next 5-10 years.

2)  This would be a huge negative for me, probably bigger than the other concerns you've expressed.  If you won't be going on internship until your 7th or 8th year that's a lot of years you're not out establishing your career, paying into retirement, etc.  If clinical hours are being sited as a reason for the lengthy stay then what is the program doing to remedy this?  Are they working to create additional opportunities for students to earn hours?  Are they modifying the existing curriculum so that students can start their hours in their 1st year rather than waiting until a later year?

Regarding the funding, I'd also want to know what's being done to remedy this.  Are the professors not applying to enough grants or just not earning enough grants?  Are students expected to apply for some grants on their own and might be struggling with this process?  Are there outside fellowships or externships that aren't being taken advantage of?  Is the department open to establishing externships in the community since those could provide both hours and funding? 

3)  If the POI has no current grants, doesn't appear to have done much publishing recently, and their most recent students haven't published much then what exactly have they been doing?  Were they funded to write a book?  Did they take on a heavier courseload?  Were they consulting in the community?  Your primary question here should be how will this POI fund you?

[Aminoacidalanine]

1 hour ago, MarineBluePsy said:

My responses are from the perspective of an applicant researching POIs to apply to.....

1)  Is this a Canadian or a US program?  I ask only because there may be a difference in the "usual" time to gain full professorship.  Also did this professor take some time off.....maternity/paternity leave, illness, sabbatical to work on a project outside of academia, caring for child/parent/spouse, etc?  Does this professor also run a private practice?  If so maybe they don't want full professorship and like the balance they currently have.  It is very appropriate for you to ask a POI where they see their career going in the next 5-10 years.

2)  This would be a huge negative for me, probably bigger than the other concerns you've expressed.  If you won't be going on internship until your 7th or 8th year that's a lot of years you're not out establishing your career, paying into retirement, etc.  If clinical hours are being sited as a reason for the lengthy stay then what is the program doing to remedy this?  Are they working to create additional opportunities for students to earn hours?  Are they modifying the existing curriculum so that students can start their hours in their 1st year rather than waiting until a later year?

Regarding the funding, I'd also want to know what's being done to remedy this.  Are the professors not applying to enough grants or just not earning enough grants?  Are students expected to apply for some grants on their own and might be struggling with this process?  Are there outside fellowships or externships that aren't being taken advantage of?  Is the department open to establishing externships in the community since those could provide both hours and funding? 

3)  If the POI has no current grants, doesn't appear to have done much publishing recently, and their most recent students haven't published much then what exactly have they been doing?  Were they funded to write a book?  Did they take on a heavier courseload?  Were they consulting in the community?  Your primary question here should be how will this POI fund you?

Thanks for your amazing advice!

1) This is a US program (I've updated this in the post). There doesn't seem to be a break in his academic position, but I don't know and don't know how to ask about paternity leave, illness and sabbaticals. I am definitely considering asking him where he is headed in terms of career pursuit. 

2) Those are great questions! I will construct some questions and ask my POI or the department.

3) The funding will be mostly TA and tuition remission. I can definitely ask what he has been up to and if he has applied for any grants and maybe ask the students about this as well. 

[MarineBluePsy]

25 minutes ago, Aminoacidalanine said:

1) This is a US program (I've updated this in the post). There doesn't seem to be a break in his academic position, but I don't know and don't know how to ask about paternity leave, illness and sabbaticals. I am definitely considering asking him where he is headed in terms of career pursuit. 

Maybe you could ask generally about the length of time it takes to gain full professorship.  As in say from your observation it seems like most faculty reaches full professorship in 7-8 years and you're wondering if this program is different or if other personal choices might change that timeframe and you wonder what the advantages might be.  This could be part of your own research regarding your possible career path rather than you simply being nosy if phrased right.