History MA opinions needed

[french fri25]

Hey all,

I currently have a BS in History with a minor in Military Science. I am an officer in the Army National Guard and work full time at an okay job. It is definitely not my career, however. I have recently been considering going back to school for a MA in History. Although I have been interested in possibly teaching at the high school level, I am mostly interested in pursuing the MA for personal enrichment. Because of this, and because of the fact that my schedule is crazy, I was planning on going to school through an online program. Right now I am looking into Slippery Rock University, which is a smaller college in Pennsylvania. In your opinion, is it worth it to get an MA online? I have only looked into traditional brick & mortar schools that also offer fully online programs. In addition, I have no interest in pursuing a PhD. I have also always been interested in employment at a museum as well but I know how hard that work is to come by. But volunteering is something I think I would enjoy as well. I guess the question is simply, is it worth it? To get a MA from Slippery Rock would cost about $17,000, which isn't too bad compared to many other programs. It is a nice chunk of change though. What do you all think? Would any of you go back to school for a MA simply for personal enrichment, or would it always have to be career-oriented for you?

[kotov]

My advice is that you absolutely do not pay for a graduate degree out of pocket no matter what. 

[Neist]

8 hours ago, french fri25 said:

What do you all think? Would any of you go back to school for a MA simply for personal enrichment, or would it always have to be career-oriented for you?

Well, considering I'm probably going to end up doing it, yup, personal enrichment.  Of course that doesn't mean additional education is bad for anyone's career, but I'd definitely weigh if you want to take on loans. I can only speak for myself, but if I had no existing student loans, and if I had to pay for my masters, I think I'd at least strongly consider it. However, I do have student loans from my undergraduate, so I wouldn't personally consider a masters degree without funding. I don't think it's a good decision for me.

It's no small matter taking out 17k in loans, but if it will enrich your life, it might be worth doing.

My two cents.

[KLZ]

If you are possibly interested in museum studies, you might consider going for a MA in Public History, or at least enrolling in a school that offers both history and public history degrees. In general, you'll get better training and career advice from schools that have strong connections with the public history sector. 

I would not personally take on debt for an MA, nor would I do an MA online. Its certainly possible to attend a grad program on a part time basis while working full time to offset the cost of tuition, and its also possible to take those classes during the evening hours on campus. If you are doing the MA for self enrichment, you will get more out of the program if you go to class with other students. I would not trade in-class seminars and discussion for anything. 

If you are not interested in pursuing a PhD, you might focus on schools that offer a non-thesis option for the MA. Unless you are passionate about research and writing and perhaps already have a project in mind, you might enjoy the MA more if you just take the classes and do the coursework. Public History MA programs are typically non-thesis track programs, at least the program at my alma mater is. 

[Josh J.]

A few questions: what is your area of interest? 

If if you are interested in military history, have you looked at Norwich's online MA? 

Also, is there any chance you could switch to active duty Army and have them pay for your MA? Possibly at one of the military colleges?

Edited February 17, 2016 by Josh J.

[french fri25]

8 hours ago, KLZ said:

If you are possibly interested in museum studies, you might consider going for a MA in Public History, or at least enrolling in a school that offers both history and public history degrees. In general, you'll get better training and career advice from schools that have strong connections with the public history sector. 

I would not personally take on debt for an MA, nor would I do an MA online. Its certainly possible to attend a grad program on a part time basis while working full time to offset the cost of tuition, and its also possible to take those classes during the evening hours on campus. If you are doing the MA for self enrichment, you will get more out of the program if you go to class with other students. I would not trade in-class seminars and discussion for anything. 

If you are not interested in pursuing a PhD, you might focus on schools that offer a non-thesis option for the MA. Unless you are passionate about research and writing and perhaps already have a project in mind, you might enjoy the MA more if you just take the classes and do the coursework. Public History MA programs are typically non-thesis track programs, at least the program at my alma mater is. 

Thanks for the reply. I had been considering the public history track but ultimately since I would be doing this mostly for personal enrichment I feel as though I would enjoy a regular history track more. My interests include the Colonial American and American Revolutionary periods and so I want to take as many classes as I can involving these time periods.

I know exactly what you mean about missing in-class seminars and discussions as I enjoyed them immensely as an undergrad. However, my schedule simply does not allow me to attend on-campus classes at this time. In addition, I feel as though online discussions still allow for a great amount of learning as long as there is good class/instructor participation. However, I must admit that I've never taken an online class so this is all speculation.

As for thesis vs. non-thesis options I am only really considering the non-thesis option at this point. As I said, I am not looking to get a PhD in the future and feel as though my enrollment as a part-time student and full-time worker would inhibit my ability to conduct the amount of research required for such a project.

[french fri25]

6 hours ago, Josh J. said:

A few questions: what is your area of interest? 

If if you are interested in military history, have you looked at Norwich's online MA? 

Also, is there any chance you could switch to active duty Army and have them pay for your MA? Possibly at one of the military colleges?

I am interested in the Colonial American and American Revolutionary periods. I have looked into Norwich's online MA and they do offer degrees in Military History and History as well and I am keeping them in mind. As for the Army, they paid for my bachelors degree. I do not have the option of going active at this time but my unit is scheduled to deploy next year, at which point I would get the GI Bill. So I am keeping this in mind as well.

[GradSchoolTruther]

For personal enrichment, I'd find graduate-level reading lists and skip paying tuition for a MA that likely would not help down the road.

[Neist]

1 minute ago, GradSchoolTruther said:

For personal enrichment, I'd find graduate-level reading lists and skip paying tuition for a MA that likely would not help down the road.

This is definitely something to consider.

I find that communities of peers significantly enhance the quality of my education, but I'm not sure how much interaction an online program involves.

[french fri25]

5 minutes ago, Neist said:

This is definitely something to consider.

I find that communities of peers significantly enhance the quality of my education, but I'm not sure how much interaction an online program involves.

Exactly. Since I've never taken online classes I'm not entirely sure what to expect in regards to class interaction. I would hope there would be a good amount of online discussions.

[GradSchoolTruther]

16 hours ago, french fri25 said:

Exactly. Since I've never taken online classes I'm not entirely sure what to expect in regards to class interaction. I would hope there would be a good amount of online discussions.

Online discussions leave much to be desired. Most often, students will do the minimum to pass. An online MA program from a smaller state university is not attracting the best and the brightest in the field. Most often, the students are educators looking for a master's to get a bump in pay or those enrolling with a false hope they will be competitive for jobs in the field.

[sixgunguerilla]

Your mileage will vary.

In most cases it is probably not smart to pay for a Masters degree, but I would not say in all cases. I paid to pursue a Masters degree because I knew I intended to later pursue a PhD and my undergraduate record was not strong enough on its own for me to be competitive (2.75 GPA). I also knew that I wanted to be a part of a program that required a Masters degree in order to apply because I was seeking a more mature environment. 

Taking on that debt means that in a few years and for a handful of years I'll have fewer choices and more anxiety as a result of taking on that debt, but I exchanged that for taking the opportunities I have now. There is nothing wrong with doing that if you are aware of the decision you're making and what it potentially means for you down the road.

Also, I took my degree online at the previously mentioned Norwich University MA program (American, not Military History). Among online programs it has a fairly decent reputation because of its connection to the historic private military school. There is a one week residency at the conclusion of your program, which is 6 semesters, one class each worth 6 credits. There are slight variations from class-to-class, but generally speaking you have assignments due on Tuesdays, Fridays and Sundays. Your classes have about a dozen people, and Tuesdays and Fridays usually involve responding to discussions. A minimum of four responses by Tuesday and four by Friday. About half of each class really goes above-and-beyond in their discussions (sometimes it can even get a little heated), and the other half of students do the bare minimum. Sundays are individual, larger assignments. Usually an essay, or having to develop some sort of presentation or curriculum. There is little in the way of Public History. 

 There are administrative problems like at any school, and most of the professors you work with will be adjuncts, so they are not completely connected to the University. You should know that going in. On the other hand, in my experience professors are not only helpful, but aggressively so in trying to get to their students to achieve their desired outcomes. When they knew I was interested in a PhD they each went above and beyond in helping me through the process. I'm told the same is true for those looking to extend their teaching career or start a career with the terminal degree.

The program also helped me obtain a spring internship last year at one of the largest history museums in the U.S., which was an experience that both doctorate programs and employers said was an impressive "get". I've been accepted to a PhD program and am awaiting a few other applications. I also was offered a State Park job with a salary that I am considering against the doctorate programs.  

This certainly isn't all because of Norwich; I worked hard and took some gambles in presenting myself, but I just wanted to note that paying for a graduate degree and doing so online will not automatically disqualify you from any future academic pursuits or employment; and I don't agree that it doesn't necessarily help because I certainly have opportunities now that I would not have two years ago. There are still places and people who are interested in how you present yourself and the skills you can demonstrate as opposed to what's on paper. The most important thing any fair employer is going to want to see is commitment. And you will get rejected along the way, but so is everyone, so there's no real reason to immediately attribute that to your graduate degree. 

Good luck. 

 

Edited February 20, 2016 by sixgunguerilla

[johnnycomelately]

On February 18, 2016 at 5:25 PM, GradSchoolTruther said:

For personal enrichment, I'd find graduate-level reading lists and skip paying tuition for a MA that likely would not help down the road.

^This, all day.

Seriously though, skip the tuition and find reading lists in your area of interest. 

Edited February 20, 2016 by johnnycomelately

[xypathos]

If you are looking for an online MA program and being in the military, I'll add that you should consider American Military University (part of the APUS system, http://www.apus.edu/). It's a regionally accredited school and AMU specifically caters to military individuals and their spouses. I know of a Ph.D. student at Syracuse University in History and another in Sociology that did a Masters through AMU, both former active duty officers (Army and Navy as I recall). So while not much, it would seem that their online M.A., at least, didn't hurt them. It's also slightly cheaper at $12,600 tuition for the whole program.

Looking at their website, they offer concentrations in American, Global, Ancient and Classical, European, and Public History. They also offer a separate M.A. in Military History.

[french fri25]

On ‎2‎/‎20‎/‎2016 at 11:46 PM, xypathos said:

If you are looking for an online MA program and being in the military, I'll add that you should consider American Military University (part of the APUS system, http://www.apus.edu/). It's a regionally accredited school and AMU specifically caters to military individuals and their spouses. I know of a Ph.D. student at Syracuse University in History and another in Sociology that did a Masters through AMU, both former active duty officers (Army and Navy as I recall). So while not much, it would seem that their online M.A., at least, didn't hurt them. It's also slightly cheaper at $12,600 tuition for the whole program.

Looking at their website, they offer concentrations in American, Global, Ancient and Classical, European, and Public History. They also offer a separate M.A. in Military History.

Looking into the AMU program, I was certainly interested, especially due to the affordability. I also like the looks of the programs offered. The classes in the history and military history programs cover the topics I am most interested in. What worries me is the reputation of the school itself. As far as within the academic community I don't know how respected AMU is, but the fact that you know of two people who attended that are in PhD programs in SU is certainly a good sign. As far as within the government sector and probably even private employers, anything affiliated with the military is usually perceived in a positive light. But I remain caught up on the fact that it is a "for-profit" school, which tend to get a bad rap, and the fact that it is a fully online school and not a traditional brick and mortar school. So I am still on the fence about this one.

[french fri25]

On ‎2‎/‎20‎/‎2016 at 9:46 PM, sixgunguerilla said:

Your mileage will vary.

In most cases it is probably not smart to pay for a Masters degree, but I would not say in all cases. I paid to pursue a Masters degree because I knew I intended to later pursue a PhD and my undergraduate record was not strong enough on its own for me to be competitive (2.75 GPA). I also knew that I wanted to be a part of a program that required a Masters degree in order to apply because I was seeking a more mature environment. 

Taking on that debt means that in a few years and for a handful of years I'll have fewer choices and more anxiety as a result of taking on that debt, but I exchanged that for taking the opportunities I have now. There is nothing wrong with doing that if you are aware of the decision you're making and what it potentially means for you down the road.

Also, I took my degree online at the previously mentioned Norwich University MA program (American, not Military History). Among online programs it has a fairly decent reputation because of its connection to the historic private military school. There is a one week residency at the conclusion of your program, which is 6 semesters, one class each worth 6 credits. There are slight variations from class-to-class, but generally speaking you have assignments due on Tuesdays, Fridays and Sundays. Your classes have about a dozen people, and Tuesdays and Fridays usually involve responding to discussions. A minimum of four responses by Tuesday and four by Friday. About half of each class really goes above-and-beyond in their discussions (sometimes it can even get a little heated), and the other half of students do the bare minimum. Sundays are individual, larger assignments. Usually an essay, or having to develop some sort of presentation or curriculum. There is little in the way of Public History. 

 There are administrative problems like at any school, and most of the professors you work with will be adjuncts, so they are not completely connected to the University. You should know that going in. On the other hand, in my experience professors are not only helpful, but aggressively so in trying to get to their students to achieve their desired outcomes. When they knew I was interested in a PhD they each went above and beyond in helping me through the process. I'm told the same is true for those looking to extend their teaching career or start a career with the terminal degree.

The program also helped me obtain a spring internship last year at one of the largest history museums in the U.S., which was an experience that both doctorate programs and employers said was an impressive "get". I've been accepted to a PhD program and am awaiting a few other applications. I also was offered a State Park job with a salary that I am considering against the doctorate programs.  

This certainly isn't all because of Norwich; I worked hard and took some gambles in presenting myself, but I just wanted to note that paying for a graduate degree and doing so online will not automatically disqualify you from any future academic pursuits or employment; and I don't agree that it doesn't necessarily help because I certainly have opportunities now that I would not have two years ago. There are still places and people who are interested in how you present yourself and the skills you can demonstrate as opposed to what's on paper. The most important thing any fair employer is going to want to see is commitment. And you will get rejected along the way, but so is everyone, so there's no real reason to immediately attribute that to your graduate degree. 

Good luck. 

 

Hey thanks for the response. I was looking into the programs at Norwich. It seems a little pricey and there isn't any wiggle room as far as picking what classes you want to take, so that sort of put me off. As you said though, Norwich does have a good reputation, especially due to its affiliation with the military. It's definitely great to hear that you got an internship through your program as well as a job offer and acceptance into a PhD program. That definitely makes it more appealing to me. The biggest thing remains the price though. For a program like AMU at around 13k or Slippery rock at 17k I don't know if Norwich would really be worth it at close to double the money.

[sixgunguerilla]

23 hours ago, french fri25 said:

Hey thanks for the response. I was looking into the programs at Norwich. It seems a little pricey and there isn't any wiggle room as far as picking what classes you want to take, so that sort of put me off. As you said though, Norwich does have a good reputation, especially due to its affiliation with the military. It's definitely great to hear that you got an internship through your program as well as a job offer and acceptance into a PhD program. That definitely makes it more appealing to me. The biggest thing remains the price though. For a program like AMU at around 13k or Slippery rock at 17k I don't know if Norwich would really be worth it at close to double the money.

Hey,

No problem, thanks for the reply as well. Yeah, Norwich is far more expensive, you're right. Going through the school now, I can't tell you if it's worth it versus what you get out of AMU or Slippery Rock. I spent a few weeks in AMU's history program like six years ago and was really unimpressed. It felt like a diploma mill to me. They have some cool popular history seminars, but I don't think they train you to become a professional historian and I know that doctorate programs consider AMU a sibling of for-profits, so.... 

Stony Brook I don't know anything about. And you're right, you don't really get very much choice in your classes at all at Norwich. Basically, what they do is limited but they do it very well. The program is specifically designed to empower you to have something to show for your degree. If you are intended to go for a doctorate you'll get a lot of instruction on doing historiography and writing a thesis. If you are advancing a secondary school teaching career you will have resources to cater your experience to that.

I think in large part you'll get out of it what you put in. Because I was driven to make something of the experience (and because I had a substantial monetary investment), the professors I've worked with have all seemed really motivated to work with me. If you just do the bare minimum, I'm sure they'll let you do that without comment, too. 

Also, in the Americanist tract at Norwich you're going to get exposure with all the works and materials doctorate programs would expect you to be familiar with coming in the door. I can't say the same for AMU but again also don't know about Stony Brook to that end.