So....I didn't do so well on the 2015-2016 application cycle. Now what?

[kelris]

I felt like I was a strong candidate, but I didn't have much success on this year's application cycle. What gives? Will I try again? Will I move into my parent's house? Will I be a barista? Get an MBA instead? Adjunct at community college? Now what?

I think my strategy was off. I did not network with POIs prior to, I was not an *excellent* fit at all of my departments, and I probably aimed too high. I should have taken the GRE again.

It's not over til it's over I guess, but rejection reigns pretty heavy as of late. What's up with everyone else?

[macadamia tea]

All I can offer is that in my experience, fit is everything. I had read this many times on thegradcafe, and believed it to an extent, but it seems to have been absolutely the most important aspect of my applications.

I have four offers from 'top-20s'. Rejected from four, waiting on a couple more. My GREs were fine but not exceptional, my letters of recommendation were from international professors in non-sociology disciplines. I did not network at all, I didn't even know that was a thing. I really don't know how to judge my writing sample but I'm convinced it wasn't crucial to any of the decisions.

I got offers from the places where I was obviously a better fit, and all of the communications I have had with the schools since has emphasized my fit. Places where I had to stretch or tweak or otherwise try and fit my interests to slightly different faculty research, no offers. Professors from the programs I have gotten into are interested in talking about their research, and how my interests fit theirs.

As far as I can tell, it really is all about fit.

[pi515]

@macadamia tea That's really interesting to know: would you mind elaborating a bit on how you conveyed the fit with the department in your SOP? For example, did you mention the research of specific faculty members and then talked about how your proposed project fit with it? Did you pitch your project as an extension of the faculty research agenda? Did you focus on just one faculty member or several? Any advice in terms of how to best approach demonstrating good fit would be greatly appreciated it. Like @kelris (thank you for starting this thread), I haven't had any luck this application season, and in retrospect, I don't think I've made the links between my project and the research agendas of the faculty members explicit enough -- in my head, I thought those links would be obvious when reading my project description but given that the admissions committees read hundreds of applications, I should have been more direct. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this, it's very helpful.

[any5]

@kelris, what were your stats so we can give better advice?

[kelris]

1 minute ago, any5 said:

@kelris, what were your stats so we can give better advice?

I was just starting the thread for the community. I don't think I need any pointed advice right now--I'm getting a lot from my personal network. I wanted to see how other people who didnt have success were thinking of moving forward and how they are reflecting back on their process. I appreciate your offer tho!

[ts1493]

@kelrisJust wanted to drop in and say I'm sorry that this year didn't work out for you so far, but a year can make a big difference and next year you could find yourself with multiple offers.  This has been the case for several of my close friends, including one who was rejected from all his programs last year and this year is at his top choice.                                                                                                                                                                           I'm sure you're getting lots of good advice from people who know you well, I'll just chime in to say it sounds like what are thinking about will probably help a lot (GREs again, networking into the department you want to study with to assess the fit, and starting to think early about it).  Good luck! 

Edited February 17, 2016 by ts1493

[HopefulSocPhD]

1 hour ago, pi515 said:

@macadamia tea That's really interesting to know: would you mind elaborating a bit on how you conveyed the fit with the department in your SOP? For example, did you mention the research of specific faculty members and then talked about how your proposed project fit with it? Did you pitch your project as an extension of the faculty research agenda? Did you focus on just one faculty member or several? Any advice in terms of how to best approach demonstrating good fit would be greatly appreciated it. Like @kelris (thank you for starting this thread), I haven't had any luck this application season, and in retrospect, I don't think I've made the links between my project and the research agendas of the faculty members explicit enough -- in my head, I thought those links would be obvious when reading my project description but given that the admissions committees read hundreds of applications, I should have been more direct. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this, it's very helpful.

 

1 hour ago, any5 said:

@kelris, what were your stats so we can give better advice?

Well I am in a similar boat to @kelris. I didn't have any success with the Ph.D. programs I applied to. My upper div. undergrad GPA in Criminology was 3.84, GRE 160V 161Q 4.5AW. I am not sure if my GRE is just not enough to stand out and if I should have retaken it. My quant score (80th%ile) seems higher than the averages published at many departments, but my verbal is lower (85th%ile). I had a checkered past, including abusive relationship early in my undergrad career, so my cumulative GPA is sub. 3.0. I had a three year gap between the tumultuous past and returning to school and graduating with honors. I have been a high school teacher in underprivileged schools for the past two years, and tailored my writing sample and SOP to social inequality and reproduction of inequality etc. in schools. I didn't have any traditional undergraduate research experience with a faculty member but I did have an undergraduate thesis project. My LORs were from two former professors, including the director of the program, and a supervisor at the high school where I work. I, too, thought that I had a reasonably strong application but I suppose not.... sigh

Edited February 17, 2016 by HopefulSocPhD
sp.

[pi515]

@HopefulSocPhD Thank you for sharing. I'm sorry to hear about your difficulties. I've applied to five programs and it looks like I have been rejected by four of them already. I also thought I had a decent chance but it seems I hugely underestimated how competitive PhD admissions are. My undergrad GPA was 3.90, with honors and I won a distinguished honors award for my thesis; my GREs are 168/159/6.0; I have a social science-related master's degree from an ivy league school and LORs from well-regarded professors in related fields; and prior experience in both quantitative and qualitative analysis. But I'm much older than most applicants and my topic isn't one that very many programs would find a close fit so I think I needed to have made a much stronger case for myself in my SOP (which I thought I did but apparently it wasn't enough). After reading advice from others here on grad cafe, I think I could improve my writing sample and get some additional research experience in the coming year but I'm not sure it would be enough to get into a top-20 program, or rather I think that it would still be a long shot given how arbitrary this process seems at times. Because I'm really passionate about my research project, I most likely will give it another try next year. Hope we all have a lot more luck next time! <hugs> 

[Shamon]

I would not see a gap year as a setback. I took a year off after my Masters, devoting those few months toward putting my application together - and these "idle" months apparently did not deter adcomms. I realize not everyone can afford this luxury but if living with family or some other unemployed arrangement is your only option at the time, please don't despair. Take this opportunity to do some self-study in the discipline, read sociological journal articles and just familiarize yourself with the discipline's vocabulary and trends. I also volunteered at a non-profit and began to teach myself a foreign language during my gap year, which I may never have been able to do if I did not have this much free time. Be ready to articulate how you spent your gap year in your statement for the next cycle. In short, a gap year can be a blessing in disguise, as it was for me.

[macadamia tea]

On 17/02/2016 at 7:02 PM, pi515 said:

@macadamia tea That's really interesting to know: would you mind elaborating a bit on how you conveyed the fit with the department in your SOP? For example, did you mention the research of specific faculty members and then talked about how your proposed project fit with it? Did you pitch your project as an extension of the faculty research agenda? Did you focus on just one faculty member or several? Any advice in terms of how to best approach demonstrating good fit would be greatly appreciated it. Like @kelris (thank you for starting this thread), I haven't had any luck this application season, and in retrospect, I don't think I've made the links between my project and the research agendas of the faculty members explicit enough -- in my head, I thought those links would be obvious when reading my project description but given that the admissions committees read hundreds of applications, I should have been more direct. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this, it's very helpful.

I mentioned specific faculty members, but not at length. My statements were about equally balanced between research experience, substantive interests, methodological outlook & experience, and faculty.

I only applied to places where I was sure I could pursue my research interests, but I felt like faculty didn't need to study the exact topics I am interested in, so long as there was enough substantive overlap that I could e.g. imagine coauthoring with them. I could have gone to greater lengths to adjust the interests and methodological bits to fit the places I applied, but found I couldn't really make a convincing case for an agenda very different to my actual interests. I think that was because I didn't feel confident/informed enough to do so.

Instead, I used the faculty section to talk about specific elements of around 3 people's research that I thought had significant overlap with my interests. It looks like places with the biggest overlap - i.e. the closer my interests & methods sections were to past and current faculty research - were where I was admitted. I think that if I had taken the time to really tailor those sections to more places, I might have a few more offers, though obviously I can't know for sure. At least this way I won't be worrying about fit when I make my decision.

[Katastrophe]

1 hour ago, macadamia tea said:

Instead, I used the faculty section to talk about specific elements of around 3 people's research that I thought had significant overlap with my interests. It looks like places with the biggest overlap - i.e. the closer my interests & methods sections were to past and current faculty research - were where I was admitted. I think that if I had taken the time to really tailor those sections to more places, I might have a few more offers, though obviously I can't know for sure. At least this way I won't be worrying about fit when I make my decision.

I agree with you here. I didn't spend much time on the specific faculty sections of my statement, and maybe I should have. I wish I knew when I started the process what I know now. I think I might have saved myself a lot of stress (and some $$$ on things like the GRE)

Even though honestly, I am still not sure how exactly this whole process works. I didn't contact any faculty at all during this process. I had no idea people did that until I joined Grad Cafe in January. Also, I got accepted to the places I put one faculty member in my statement and rejected from some where I listed four. I don't have publications or crazy gre scores...so who knows!

The one good thing about it being a little bit of a crapshoot is that everyone has a shot!

[kelris]

I'm starting now reapplying--today made a list of schools to look into and professors' work to get to know. I know what I want! I'm retaking my GRE. I scored in 80th and 70th percentile last time but it's just not enough to be competitive. I'm plan on getting my applications in well before the due date this time around--too much stress meeting deadlines in the process last time, completely avoidable with proper planning. I'm also focusing on expanding my interest area. I'm looking into profs as theorist instead of profs who studied the same topic or case that I'm interested in. I also plan on networking and working on making contact well before application season heats up. Finally, I'm expanding my application pool. I applied way too high in the rankings this year. There's plenty of middle-ranked programs with great professors who will help me on my way.

[MaxWeberHasAPosse]

1 hour ago, kelris said:

I'm starting now reapplying--today made a list of schools to look into and professors' work to get to know. I know what I want! I'm retaking my GRE. I scored in 80th and 70th percentile last time but it's just not enough to be competitive. I'm plan on getting my applications in well before the due date this time around--too much stress meeting deadlines in the process last time, completely avoidable with proper planning. I'm also focusing on expanding my interest area. I'm looking into profs as theorist instead of profs who studied the same topic or case that I'm interested in. I also plan on networking and working on making contact well before application season heats up. Finally, I'm expanding my application pool. I applied way too high in the rankings this year. There's plenty of middle-ranked programs with great professors who will help me on my way.

Your GRE score is plenty high. Don't waste anymore time on it. I got into really good programs with a very low GRE score: 149 (q) 155 (v). 

[krispykreme]

On February 22, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Katastrophe said:

I agree with you here. I didn't spend much time on the specific faculty sections of my statement, and maybe I should have. I wish I knew when I started the process what I know now. I think I might have saved myself a lot of stress (and some $$$ on things like the GRE)

Even though honestly, I am still not sure how exactly this whole process works. I didn't contact any faculty at all during this process. I had no idea people did that until I joined Grad Cafe in January. Also, I got accepted to the places I put one faculty member in my statement and rejected from some where I listed four. I don't have publications or crazy gre scores...so who knows!

The one good thing about it being a little bit of a crapshoot is that everyone has a shot!

did you attend a top institution (either liberal arts or uni) for undergrad?

 

I have very average gpa, GRE, and  I'm sure my writing sample and sop was just ok. I think previous institution helped in this case bc everything else was average. Which means reputable professors who can attest to your potential too 

 

edit: by average I mean edging towards low lol 

Edited February 25, 2016 by krispykreme

[Katastrophe]

49 minutes ago, krispykreme said:

did you attend a top institution (either liberal arts or uni) for undergrad?

 

I have very average gpa, GRE, and  I'm sure my writing sample and sop was just ok. I think previous institution helped in this case bc everything else was average. Which means reputable professors who can attest to your potential too 

 

edit: by average I mean edging towards low lol 

I attend a state school that I love dearly

Edited February 25, 2016 by Katastrophe

[proctorvt]

Are you good at what you do? How much have you read? I don't mean "how well do you know Durkheim, or X theorist/concentration." I mean: How sophisticated is your approach and how well do you know the territory in which you're interested? I don't mean to question your intelligence, at all, but I generally see such a strong emphasis on publications and conferences and that's well taken, but I didn't go from a near college dropout (flunk out) to getting multiple offers at my dream schools (and dream supervisors) by trying to turn an above average term paper into a publication; rather I dove headfirst into the literature and debates, as well as politics and history, in general. I really don't mean to question your intelligence, because--hell, I'm not that smart. But I've spent 4-5 years in between degrees (BA then MA) reading my ass off and it's paid tremendous dividends. I really do believe that a premature emphasis on publications and presentations narrows one's intellectual sights far too greatly. Once you've mastered the literature (or, at least know it) and you've developed a sophisticated, uniquely synthetic approach, the publications will just start flowing like water. 

I genuinely hope nothing I've said is taken in a condescending or presumptuous way. Everyone here is smart and accomplished by virtue of their status as a grad school applicant. I'm just venting, honestly, because I see so many of my struggling colleagues and classmates and they're putting the cart before the horse by not putting the work in. Aim to read something good for 10-20+ hours a week (if you're not doing that already). That's my advice. The rest will come naturally. Obviously this will depend on one's life circumstances. But I spent 4-5 years throughout my 20s broke and in awful jobs because I refused to take on a situation that would prevent me from reading on the side. It hasn't been easy, but if you want it badly enough, you'll find a way. Good luck!

Edited February 25, 2016 by proctorvt

[MaxWeberHasAPosse]

1 hour ago, proctorvt said:

Are you good at what you do? How much have you read? I don't mean "how well do you know Durkheim, or X theorist/concentration." I mean: How sophisticated is your approach and how well do you know the territory in which you're interested? I don't mean to question your intelligence, at all, but I generally see such a strong emphasis on publications and conferences and that's well taken, but I didn't go from a near college dropout (flunk out) to getting multiple offers at my dream schools (and dream supervisors) by trying to turn an above average term paper into a publication; rather I dove headfirst into the literature and debates, as well as politics and history, in general. I really don't mean to question your intelligence, because--hell, I'm not that smart. But I've spent 4-5 years in between degrees (BA then MA) reading my ass off and it's paid tremendous dividends. I really do believe that a premature emphasis on publications and presentations narrows one's intellectual sights far too greatly. Once you've mastered the literature (or, at least know it) and you've developed a sophisticated, uniquely synthetic approach, the publications will just start flowing like water. 

I genuinely hope nothing I've said is taken in a condescending or presumptuous way. Everyone here is smart and accomplished by virtue of their status as a grad school applicant. I'm just venting, honestly, because I see so many of my struggling colleagues and classmates and they're putting the cart before the horse by not putting the work in. Aim to read something good for 10-20+ hours a week (if you're not doing that already). That's my advice. The rest will come naturally. Obviously this will depend on one's life circumstances. But I spent 4-5 years throughout my 20s broke and in awful jobs because I refused to take on a situation that would prevent me from reading on the side. It hasn't been easy, but if you want it badly enough, you'll find a way. Good luck!

exactly what I did. 

[proctorvt]

12 minutes ago, MaxWeberHasAPosse said:

exactly what I did. 

It sucked, didn't it? Haha. But the payoff is something your "coasting through their elite undergrad with a 4.0" colleagues will never be able to appreciate.

[MaxWeberHasAPosse]

2 hours ago, proctorvt said:

It sucked, didn't it? Haha. But the payoff is something your "coasting through their elite undergrad with a 4.0" colleagues will never be able to appreciate.

I mean that I became intimately familiar with American sociology and in the theoretical and empirical debates in my subfield over the last five years. This way, I situated my research project in such a way that I was a collaborator with the professors and not simple someone "who can learn a lot from you." 

[proctorvt]

12 hours ago, MaxWeberHasAPosse said:

This way, I situated my research project in such a way that I was a collaborator with the professors and not simple someone "who can learn a lot from you." 

Bingo. This is more important than all the publications and conferences in the world, IMHO.

[Roll_Right]

You should be writing publications while you're reading. Reading through the debates and publishing are not mutually exclusive activities....