Georgetown McCourt 2016

[LLCoolJ1585]

Anyone else still waiting for their (rejection) letter like me? LoL Seems that way. Thought we'd hear today. Even worse, my application shows 'incomplete' now even though 3 weeks ago it showed complete. *Sigh* not my year. 

[ek545]

After realizing that I never delivered my official transcripts to Gtown more than a month after I submitted my application (particularly annoying b/c the portal doesn't make it very obvious if you have missing materials), I fiiiiinally got my decision! 

For those of you who were accepted, do you know how to check for financial aid?

And does anyone know how generous the McCourt School is with their aid package?

Thanks!

 

[a.khalid]

I have been accepted for the MPP, but am tilting towards SAIS. How does the McCourt school's MPP compare with the MA program  at SAIS in terms of quant rigor, placements, reputation?

[SenNoodles]

15 hours ago, a.khalid said:

I have been accepted for the MPP, but am tilting towards SAIS. How does the McCourt school's MPP compare with the MA program  at SAIS in terms of quant rigor, placements, reputation?

This was actually my dilemma exactly. It'll depend largely on 1) your area of interest and 2) the amount of work experience/connections you already have.

That said, here's my generic answer: I think on these boards you'll generally hear that SAIS has the better placements and reputation in DC, and I think that's probably accurate. It definitely is better known and there are so many SAIS alumni in this city (I work in DC now, but only going to grad school this fall) that finding jobs in high-profile government agencies and multilaterals will be easier.

That said, I actually ended up choosing the Georgetown MPP over the SAIS MA. I have the good fortune of working in DC now and knowing a number of people who went to SAIS and to Georgetown for the MPP (when it was GPPI) as well as a lot of people who hire for the World Bank, USAID, etc. Almost unanimously, the answer was that if you have the work experience, the school won't really make much of a difference because you'll get the connections at either school and that I should choose the school based on the program and how good a fit the coursework, institutes, RA/TA positions, etc. are. If you don't have any DC connections and/or little work experience in your chosen field, it might be a different issue - SAIS may have slightly better connections, but not by much if you look at job placement and average starting salary stats.

On the quant rigor: I think if you seek it out, Georgetown has more options. While SAIS is very economics-focused and requires a substantial number of econ courses, the list of offered courses makes it pretty apparent that Georgetown has more variety. It's extremely data-driven so you have all the stats courses you could dream of to a level not offered by SAIS (I spent a lot of time going through the list of courses offered at both schools haha). Additionally, you have the benefit of the other Georgetown schools being right there so you can take classes in the math/econ/whatever department if McCourt doesn't happen to have the specific material you're looking for. Through the DC consortium of schools, you can also take courses at GW, American, and George Mason. These opportunities simply don't exist at the same level at SAIS - it isn't part of the DC consortium, and all the other JHU schools are up in Baltimore. Additionally, if you want more IR courses, Georgetown's SFS is on par with SAIS and you can take courses there to fulfill your MPP.

In the end, I chose Georgetown because I think it simply offers more opportunities in terms of the types of quant courses I can take, the ability to take courses across Georgetown and DC, and also because of all the institutes and centers on campus. In particular, because McCourt has no PhD students, the MPP students get first dibs on all the RA/TA positions and you have more access to research opportunities in general. But again, all that said, it comes down to 1) what your area of interest is and 2) how concerned you are about job placement after grad school and whether you have significant work experience in your field and/or DC connections. You can always make very good connections at McCourt and at SAIS and both schools' job placement stats indicate similar starting salaries and job placement rates, but I think connections may be slightly more of a sure thing at SAIS.

[a.khalid]

9 hours ago, SenNoodles said:

This was actually my dilemma exactly. It'll depend largely on 1) your area of interest and 2) the amount of work experience/connections you already have.

That said, here's my generic answer: I think on these boards you'll generally hear that SAIS has the better placements and reputation in DC, and I think that's probably accurate. It definitely is better known and there are so many SAIS alumni in this city (I work in DC now, but only going to grad school this fall) that finding jobs in high-profile government agencies and multilaterals will be easier.

That said, I actually ended up choosing the Georgetown MPP over the SAIS MA. I have the good fortune of working in DC now and knowing a number of people who went to SAIS and to Georgetown for the MPP (when it was GPPI) as well as a lot of people who hire for the World Bank, USAID, etc. Almost unanimously, the answer was that if you have the work experience, the school won't really make much of a difference because you'll get the connections at either school and that I should choose the school based on the program and how good a fit the coursework, institutes, RA/TA positions, etc. are. If you don't have any DC connections and/or little work experience in your chosen field, it might be a different issue - SAIS may have slightly better connections, but not by much if you look at job placement and average starting salary stats.

On the quant rigor: I think if you seek it out, Georgetown has more options. While SAIS is very economics-focused and requires a substantial number of econ courses, the list of offered courses makes it pretty apparent that Georgetown has more variety. It's extremely data-driven so you have all the stats courses you could dream of to a level not offered by SAIS (I spent a lot of time going through the list of courses offered at both schools haha). Additionally, you have the benefit of the other Georgetown schools being right there so you can take classes in the math/econ/whatever department if McCourt doesn't happen to have the specific material you're looking for. Through the DC consortium of schools, you can also take courses at GW, American, and George Mason. These opportunities simply don't exist at the same level at SAIS - it isn't part of the DC consortium, and all the other JHU schools are up in Baltimore. Additionally, if you want more IR courses, Georgetown's SFS is on par with SAIS and you can take courses there to fulfill your MPP.

In the end, I chose Georgetown because I think it simply offers more opportunities in terms of the types of quant courses I can take, the ability to take courses across Georgetown and DC, and also because of all the institutes and centers on campus. In particular, because McCourt has no PhD students, the MPP students get first dibs on all the RA/TA positions and you have more access to research opportunities in general. But again, all that said, it comes down to 1) what your area of interest is and 2) how concerned you are about job placement after grad school and whether you have significant work experience in your field and/or DC connections. You can always make very good connections at McCourt and at SAIS and both schools' job placement stats indicate similar starting salaries and job placement rates, but I think connections may be slightly more of a sure thing at SAIS.

Thank you for that incredibly insightful answer. I am an international student so I think SAIS will suit my needs better, even though judging by my interaction with current McCourt students, significant quant rigor can be inculcated into the program.

But please, tell me this:

I am torn between SAIS and HKS (MPP) currently. The MA (Intl Dev concentration) from SAIS (with a 30k annual waiver) will cost me $70k over two years (incl living), while the MPP from HKS will cost me $145k over two years (with 0-30k in loans, I am yet to figure this bit out). Do you think investing the additional for the HKS MPP would be worth it?

To give you some context, I am broadly interested in the research side of international development policy. Therefore, ideally, I would like to work in one of the multilateral agencies (World Bank, UNDP, ILO etc.) or in think tanks. But i would also like to keep the option of pursuing a PhD or joining the private sector open as well. 

Edited April 11, 2016 by a.khalid

[SenNoodles]

8 minutes ago, a.khalid said:

Thank you for that incredibly insightful answer. I am an international student so I think SAIS will suit my needs better, even though judging by my interaction with current McCourt students, significant quant rigor can be inculcated into the program.

But please, tell me this:

I am torn between SAIS and HKS (MPP) currently. The MA from SAIS (with a 30k annual waiver) will cost me 70k over two years (incl living), while the MPP from HKS will cost me 145k over two years (with 0-30k in loans, I am yet to figure this bit out). Do you think investing the additional for the HKS MPP would be worth it?

To give you some context, I am broadly interested in the research side of international development policy. Therefore, ideally, I would like to work in one of the multilateral agencies (World Bank, UNDP, ILO etc.) or in think tanks. But i would also like to keep the option of pursuing a PhD or joining the private sector open as well. 

I don't think it is if you're talking about job placement. Several of my coworkers are from SAIS and several others did the HKS MPP. I work in international development, and the SAIS people had a far easier time finding a job in DC (especially at the Bank - I swear half the Bank is run by SAISers who aggressively recruit other SAISers). It's just easier because of location - you just email someone and set up coffee and that very often leads to a job interview and sometimes a job, whereas you can't really do that from Boston. That said, if you ever want to move to your home country, Harvard may be more easily recognized. I also know a few people who went to SAIS for the MA and then went on to do PhDs at a variety of schools, including HKS. Plus, I personally am very risk-averse and so I'd go with the lower cost.  In general, I've found with the DC job market and with international development in general that there are so so so many people trying to break in that there's nothing quite like networking to give you the leg up. And for networking, you have to be here.

Edited April 11, 2016 by SenNoodles

[a.khalid]

Just now, SenNoodles said:

I don't think it is if you're talking about job placement. Several of my coworkers are from SAIS and several others did the HKS MPP. I work in international development, and the SAIS people had a far easier time finding a job in DC (especially at the Bank - I swear half the Bank is run by SAISers who aggressively recruit other SAISers). It's just easier because of location - you just email someone and set up coffee and that very often leads to a job interview and sometimes a job, whereas you can't really do that from Boston. That said, if you ever want to move to your home country, Harvard may be more easily recognized. I also know a few people who went to SAIS for the MA and then went on to do PhDs at a variety of schools, including HKS. Plus, I personally am very risk-averse and so I'd go with the lower cost.  In general, I've found with the DC job market and with international development in general that there are so so so many people trying to break in that there's nothing quite like networking to give you the leg up. And for networking, you have to be here.

Thank you for that answer, SenNoodle. 

I have heard great things about SAIS, and going through these pages and other threads, I have not come across too many negative comments about SAIS.

But, I am thinking of getting swayed by HKS prestige and all, esp since I plan to return to my home country after getting working for a few years in the US post graduation.

[kd7432]

Hi all. Georgetown just increased their financial offer significantly, bringing it back into contention. So now I'm confused between Duke Sanford and McCourt. Can anyone help explain the pros and cons between the two based on prestige, quantitative rigor, placements? Also, I will potentially do a PhD later on, so how does it fare on that count as well? 

@SenNoodles perhaps you can help out. Thanks

[ek545]

1 hour ago, kd7432 said:

Hi all. Georgetown just increased their financial offer significantly, bringing it back into contention. So now I'm confused between Duke Sanford and McCourt. Can anyone help explain the pros and cons between the two based on prestige, quantitative rigor, placements? Also, I will potentially do a PhD later on, so how does it fare on that count as well? 

@SenNoodles perhaps you can help out. Thanks

@kd7432 hey there,

I was curious as to whether you appealed for increased financial aid at Gtown!

Also, I'm on a similar boat as you are (I read some of your other posts).

I'm interested in economic development and am thinking pursuing a PhD in political science or economics afterwards.

I'd love to see what your thoughts are

[mls0325]

I personally appealed my financial aid at Georgetown and they more than doubled their previous offer  Now I'm also having difficulty deciding between this and another program as well...

Edited April 20, 2016 by mls0325

[SenNoodles]

20 hours ago, kd7432 said:

Hi all. Georgetown just increased their financial offer significantly, bringing it back into contention. So now I'm confused between Duke Sanford and McCourt. Can anyone help explain the pros and cons between the two based on prestige, quantitative rigor, placements? Also, I will potentially do a PhD later on, so how does it fare on that count as well? 

@SenNoodles perhaps you can help out. Thanks

 

 

 

 

 

Haha not sure how much I can help since I think a lot of it depends on what you're interested in and since I'm not actually a student in either program. But my 2 cents on the issues you raised on prestige, quant rigor, and placements:

• In terms of prestige, I'd say overall Sanford wins in most of the country/world. However, if you're talking specifically about DC and how people perceive the two, it'd be about even. I think as a general rule, it's hard to beat the name recognition of the local school. So, where would you ideally work and live after graduation?
• Quant rigor: as far as I'm aware, McCourt is among the most quant heavy programs out there. I went through the public policy undergrad major at Sanford and didn't apply to the MPP (nothing on Sanford - I just wanted a change), so I don't know much about the MPP curriculum. But if it's anything like the undergrad major, there are a few quant courses, but it's not quant heavy unless you seek it out.
• Placements: if you are staying within the US, you'll probably be fine either way. You'll definitely have a slight advantage in DC just because it's so much easier to grab coffee with prospective employers because you're here vs. when you're in Durham. However, you'll definitely also be fine with placements if you're at Sanford - you'll just have to work a bit harder for it. I noticed that was a challenge when applying for jobs out of undergrad. But if you are interested in being in DC after graduation, the Duke alumni network here in DC is huuuuge. However, as you might imagine, I've also run into plenty of Georgetown affiliates and I think just going to McCourt gets you in with the broader Georgetown network (as going to Sanford can help you with the broader Duke network). Outside of DC, I'm less sure of placement potential and would suggest looking at placement stats.

But again, what are you actually interested in? While I may not know much about the MPP curriculum at Sanford, I do have a pretty good idea of what focus areas Sanford is and isn't good for since I interacted with all the same faculty the MPP students will interact with, took MPP electives at Sanford, and took classes across Duke University.

One thing to remember, though, is that your overall career trajectory isn't determined by where you went to school so much as what you do after. So if you get a really great job immediately after graduation, you'll be much better placed to get a fantastic job after that regardless of where you went to school. So in my mind, among the biggest factors to consider after debt is job placement in the specific positions within the organizations I'm interested in.

Another really helpful thing is to just go through the course offerings in each program. Which one has more classes you're really excited about? Often, I think the general feel of the classes gives a good sense of what might be a better programmatic fit.

If you remain unsure, a final piece of advice I got a lot that I'll pass on to you is to think about where you want to actually live for two (or more) years. By the time you're in grad school, you may be at a point in your life where you truly care about whether you're in a city or a smaller town and what the overall vibe is like. I lived in Durham for four years and absolutely loved it and would go back in a heartbeat. But I've lived in DC for three now and absolutely love it here as well and am thrilled to continue being here for at least two more years. Additionally, many programs have the best placement in the area where they are located for obvious reasons. So if it came down to it, where would you want to be going forward? For many state and local issues, Durham and the Triangle more broadly are really fantastic. For international issues (except global health - Duke and the Triangle in general are actually pretty high up there for global health issues), DC is the obvious place. Obviously, all this is voided if your goal is to work elsewhere in the US or internationally, though. In that case, just focus on where you want to be for 2 years!

Best of luck to you! And again, if you want more thoughts on Durham life, let me know. While I can't speak to the MPP curriculum at Sanford, Durham and Duke more broadly as well as life in DC are definitely things I can speak to  And if it was any program but Sanford, I'd end this by saying that I hope to see you in the fall, but I know first-hand that Sanford and Duke in general is pretty fantastic and definitely a great choice!

Edited April 21, 2016 by SenNoodles

[MD guy]

25 minutes ago, SenNoodles said:

But again, what are you actually interested in? While I may not know much about the MPP curriculum at Sanford, I do have a pretty good idea of what focus areas Sanford is and isn't good for since I interacted with all the same faculty the MPP students will interact with, took MPP electives at Sanford, and took classes across Duke University.

 

What are the particular strengths of Sanford from your knowledge? We've all heard that education and social policy are the biggies, and you mentioned global health. What about domestic health policy?

[kd7432]

21 hours ago, ek545 said:

@kd7432 hey there,

I was curious as to whether you appealed for increased financial aid at Gtown!

Also, I'm on a similar boat as you are (I read some of your other posts).

I'm interested in economic development and am thinking pursuing a PhD in political science or economics afterwards.

I'd love to see what your thoughts are

Haha hey! Man it's so confusing as you can tell from my posts. Yes, Georgetown increased my offer after I appealed. What schools are you considering?

2 hours ago, SenNoodles said:

But again, what are you actually interested in? While I may not know much about the MPP curriculum at Sanford, I do have a pretty good idea of what focus areas Sanford is and isn't good for since I interacted with all the same faculty the MPP students will interact with, took MPP electives at Sanford, and took classes across Duke University.

 

Thanks for your detailed and insightful answer! That helps. I'm broadly interested in international development - more specifically, i'm interested in the political economy of development, service delivery, governance, poverty alleviation etc in a South Asia context. My impression is that there is more faculty working on development issues in South Asia at Duke than at Georgetown. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Following the MPP, I would like to dabble in research (at think tanks or one of the multilateral agencies like the World Bank, UNDP etc) and if not that then maybe in consulting in international development - while obviously considering/applying fro a PhD. 

So, yes, it seems like DC would probably be the place to work for me. But your point on the choice of place to live is interesting. I'm from a mega city (we have almost 20 million here) and so the idea of living in a smaller place like Durham is really appealing to me. And like you said Duke has a good network in DC, which obviously is not a replacement for actually being in DC, but  that would be helpful. Finally, given that I may end up moving back to my home country at some point in the future, the greater prestige of Duke might be beneficial as well.

So I guess I am leaning towards Duke. Does my reasoning make sense? Please find holes in it if you can. Again, thanks so much!

[MidByMidwest]

On 4/20/2016 at 4:07 AM, kd7432 said:

Hi all. Georgetown just increased their financial offer significantly, bringing it back into contention. So now I'm confused between Duke Sanford and McCourt. Can anyone help explain the pros and cons between the two based on prestige, quantitative rigor, placements? Also, I will potentially do a PhD later on, so how does it fare on that count as well? 

@SenNoodles perhaps you can help out. Thanks

I'm in this exact boat. Which way are you leaning?

[baysf2016]

Hi, congrats recent admits.

A family member is choosing McCourt MPP w/ some tuition discount over HKS/Goldman/Duke etc to build DC/federal agency connections. Is this a common choice and are there any mccourt/dc young professional development groups they can get started with?

We found some student intern programs like the SEC student honors program that new admits could apply to. Are there any lurkers with advice for getting releveant internships for fall or the summer beforehand. More CFPB/SEC/Fed similar things I think.

Edited April 21, 2016 by baysf2016

[SenNoodles]

21 hours ago, MD guy said:

What are the particular strengths of Sanford from your knowledge? We've all heard that education and social policy are the biggies, and you mentioned global health. What about domestic health policy?

 

There's definitely quite a focus on domestic health policy, and Don Taylor stands out immediately as someone who's involved in that - he had something to do with health care reform when I was a student. However, I got the sense that the focus is more through a racial/SES-based disparity lens. If you're looking more at health systems objectively, you're not going to be too successful (unless something has changed significantly in the past few years). That said, IMHO you'd be better off with a health policy and management MPH if you're that honed in on systems.

19 hours ago, kd7432 said:

Thanks for your detailed and insightful answer! That helps. I'm broadly interested in international development - more specifically, i'm interested in the political economy of development, service delivery, governance, poverty alleviation etc in a South Asia context. My impression is that there is more faculty working on development issues in South Asia at Duke than at Georgetown. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Following the MPP, I would like to dabble in research (at think tanks or one of the multilateral agencies like the World Bank, UNDP etc) and if not that then maybe in consulting in international development - while obviously considering/applying fro a PhD. 

So, yes, it seems like DC would probably be the place to work for me. But your point on the choice of place to live is interesting. I'm from a mega city (we have almost 20 million here) and so the idea of living in a smaller place like Durham is really appealing to me. And like you said Duke has a good network in DC, which obviously is not a replacement for actually being in DC, but  that would be helpful. Finally, given that I may end up moving back to my home country at some point in the future, the greater prestige of Duke might be beneficial as well.

So I guess I am leaning towards Duke. Does my reasoning make sense? Please find holes in it if you can. Again, thanks so much!

3

Glad you found it helpful! Honestly, it sounds like your gut is telling you Duke and I think you should go with your gut. However, I would point out that the number of faculty working on any one issue is pretty immaterial at the MPP level in that if you're seeking out a research position, the number of faculty doesn't matter so much as whether MPP students can get those RA jobs. If you're focused research options, I think McCourt offers more options because it doesn't yet have PhD tudents and all RA positions are given to MPP/MIDP students. I don't know the situation at Sanford, but I know I and many of my friends at the undergrad level had RA jobs within Sanford through our work study, and I rarely ran into MPP students doing that kind of research - it seemed it was either the undergrads or the PhD students. But of course, I may be mistaken as this is quite anecodtal!

Another issue to mention is that if you plan to be in DC immediately after graduation, you may have a slightly easier time networking since you can meet up with prospective employers whenever you want. But as I said, it should be okay coming from Duke as well. I still think, though, that your first few jobs out of grad school will be bigger determinants of your career trajectory in your home country than the name of the school you went to (different story if you are heading back immediately upon graduation).

But all that said, I think there's really no wrong answer here - the fact that nothing jumps out as clearly the right "rational" choice indicates that. And in that case, I say you should go with your gut, and it sounds like that's Duke.

[MD guy]

On 2016年4月22日 at 10:51 PM, SenNoodles said:

There's definitely quite a focus on domestic health policy, and Don Taylor stands out immediately as someone who's involved in that - he had something to do with health care reform when I was a student. However, I got the sense that the focus is more through a racial/SES-based disparity lens. If you're looking more at health systems objectively, you're not going to be too successful (unless something has changed significantly in the past few years). That said, IMHO you'd be better off with a health policy and management MPH if you're that honed in on systems.

Ok thanks, good to know. I'm not interested in health systems that much. I wanna work at a health agency (state or HHS) doing implementation work ideally. Never thought Duke was the right place to be for this stuff anyway but every website wants to say they've got so and so concentration so I had to ask

[MD guy]

On 2016年4月21日 at 5:58 PM, baysf2016 said:

Hi, congrats recent admits.

A family member is choosing McCourt MPP w/ some tuition discount over HKS/Goldman/Duke etc to build DC/federal agency connections. Is this a common choice and are there any mccourt/dc young professional development groups they can get started with?

We found some student intern programs like the SEC student honors program that new admits could apply to. Are there any lurkers with advice for getting releveant internships for fall or the summer beforehand. More CFPB/SEC/Fed similar things I think.

Yes, follow the money when it's choices among almost equal top programs. From what I've seen, it's not common to do something like that the previous summer since most are either working in their regular job or taking time off for vacation before school. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but a fall internship is weird if s/he's not in the executive program bc classes are in the morning? Unless McCourt provides help this early, you're likely on your own. If s/he is free this summer, hit up all the internship websites ASAP and start spamming out resumes with McCourt on it and see if anyone bites. I assume s/he's got work experience but the summer is getting close and likely most programs are filled already, especially at the big places that you named.