Oxbridge history departments

[Concordia]

Has anyone here found reasons to look into the history departments of Oxford & Cambridge for postgrad study?  I would be generally interested in US History (or perhaps an Atlanticized version).  My reasons for looking there rather than the US are (a) I have a potential easier entry in those programs [given some master's degree work at one that is going well right now, and contact with a supportive potential supervisor at the other], and (b) I am too old to look forward to seven years of indentured servitude in the US programs, irrespective of how much more thorough that training might be.  This would be a second career and I don't especially need to worry about hopping on the tenure-track.

I have some contacts in each, but not much context to judge them.  Cultures, political issues, stars or black holes I might not be aware of, etc.?

[prosopographer]

I have offers to both for PhD study, both with the supervisors I've wanted to work with. The biggest issue for me to make the choice right now between the UK, US, and another overseas university is all about money. You have to pay tuition (~ 19k pounds/year for overseas students) and some other fees as well. UK schools do make offers to a lot of students each year but only very few get scholarships, and it's these people who go -- generally speaking, one would feel a little uncomfortable being the only person in a department who isn't getting any funding because that could potentially negatively affect job prospects. 

Re. other differences: less teaching requirements, little to no coursework, and much LESS politicised than the US universities. 

[Concordia]

My question had more to do with differences between the two.  The US/Oxbridge divide you covered well.

[prosopographer]

Oxford: bigger cohorts, but about half the pricetag for an overseas student trying to attend (and paying full fees) as compared to Cambridge. 

[Cpt Jo]

On 24/3/2016 at 2:06 AM, Concordia said:

My question had more to do with differences between the two.  The US/Oxbridge divide you covered well.

At Oxford they say DPhil, at Cambridge they say PhD. 

 

Otherwise, Oxford has MPhil programs that are two years long, from which you can embark in a 2-year DPhil (2+2 route). Both Mst in US History are only one year long though.

The application form for Cambridge is way longer to fill than Oxford's. 

International Fees:

Oxford: £18.5K for DPhil, £20.5K for Masters.

Cambridge: £20K for PhD, £20.5K for Masters.

You should also consider the fact that housing is very expensive there (Cambridge being a bit cheaper). Count at least £6K per year - if you're willing to commute and share, otherwise it's much more.

 

As Prosopographer said above, they send quite a lot of offers. However the real selection is made through funding as they only give 30 PhDs scholarships per year on average (I think it's the same figure for Cambridge).

Funding is almost impossible to get for international students, unless you're one of those crazy guys who can get a Gates or Rhodes scholarship.

 

Note: I found the admission statistics for 2014 entry:

There were 268 applications for a PhD in History (+Art and Medicine) and 167 offers. Admission rate: 62%.

There were 667 applications for a Master in History (+Art and Medicine) and 338 offers. Admission rate: 51%.

 

However:

30 PhD offers were funded; funding/offers=18%

24 masters were funded; funding/offers=7%

 

 

See the number of applications for each program last year:  https://weblearn.ox.ac.uk/access/content/group/e862de08-70ab-4873-8dec-f493382c969a/noticeboard/gjcc_latest_minutes.pdf

[Averroes MD]

On 3/26/2016 at 7:42 AM, Cpt Jo said:

30 PhD offers were funded; funding/offers=18%

So, I'm set on applying to Oxbridge this coming year... Everyone keeps telling me that funding is incredibly difficult to get. However, if you say 30 funded positions were offered, and there were 268 applications total, then 30/268 = 0.11. So, 11% of people are accepted with funding. Isn't that similar to the acceptance rate for US PhD programs?

Or have I misunderstood something here?

[Concordia]

Sounds about right.  

From what I understand, the main difference is that Oxbridge are less fussy about taking self-funded candidates as long as they meet the (not trivial) standard.  The best US programs, I gather, just won't accept you if you're not going to get funding. Probably not making everyone fit into two years of classwork and find employment as a TA gives the English schools more room to maneuver.  The usefulness of hard currency might not be decisive, but that also can't hurt.

 People on the board here will-- usefully-- advise never taking on debt to do a humanities degree and have alluded to snobbery in the profession about people who don't get funding.  But as to how non-scholarship status affects your life on the ground while studying, I have no real idea.  It would seem that about half of the PhD/DPhil candidates enrolled in each place are not getting the full financial package.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Concordia

[Cpt Jo]

10 hours ago, Averroes MD said:

So, I'm set on applying to Oxbridge this coming year... Everyone keeps telling me that funding is incredibly difficult to get. However, if you say 30 funded positions were offered, and there were 268 applications total, then 30/268 = 0.11. So, 11% of people are accepted with funding. Isn't that similar to the acceptance rate for US PhD programs?

Or have I misunderstood something here?

The problem is that everybody doesn't have the same chance for funding. It depends on your fee status.

The main funding scheme for History is the AHRC, which only gives full awards to UK residents; EU residents are only awarded fee waivers, and must therefore complete the scholarship at another source (usually the university finds something for them). I think there are something like 8-10 AHRC PhD scholarships in History, for which you are therefore ineligible.

Same for college scholarships, there are often restricted to EU/UK students (example here). Last year (as far as I remember), colleges gave about 8 full PhD scholarships in History, of which perhaps two were given to internationals.

The remaining funding schemes are the Clarendon, the Ertegun and the Rhodes scholarships; they are open to internationals, but the competition is really tough.

So in fact, the chance of getting funding for a British resident is (schematically) about 20%, 10% for EU students, and 5% for internationals.

[Averroes MD]

10 minutes ago, Cpt Jo said:

The problem is that everybody doesn't have the same chance for funding. It depends on your fee status.

The main funding scheme for History is the AHRC, which only gives full awards to UK residents; EU residents are only awarded fee waivers, and must therefore complete the scholarship at another source (usually the university finds something for them). I think there are something like 8-10 AHRC PhD scholarships in History, for which you are therefore ineligible.

Same for college scholarships, there are often restricted to EU/UK students (example here). Last year (as far as I remember), colleges gave about 8 full PhD scholarships in History, of which perhaps two were given to internationals.

The remaining funding schemes are the Clarendon, the Ertegun and the Rhodes scholarships; they are open to internationals, but the competition is really tough.

So in fact, the chance of getting funding for a British resident is (schematically) about 20%, 10% for EU students, and 5% for internationals.

Damn, I knew I was missing something here. I didn't think about this (i.e. factoring in EU residents)! Thank you for your post/clarification.

OK, the Cambridge Gates scholarship success rate is 5%... I'm assuming Clarendon is a bit higher... How different is that from the percent success rate of getting into a TT US PhD program?

Or have I misunderstood something again here?

Edited March 28, 2016 by Averroes MD

[Averroes MD]

Also, can UK PhD programs offer funding from their bursaries to international students, or does that never happen?

[Cpt Jo]

Just now, Averroes MD said:

Damn, I knew I was missing something here. I didn't think about this (i.e. factoring in EU residents)! Thank you for your post/clarification.

OK, the Cambridge Gates scholarship success rate is 5%... How different is that from the percent success rate of getting into a TT US PhD program?

Or have I misunderstood something again here?

I've no idea about US programs as I haven't applied to any of them, but since you come from Harvard, you should still apply to Oxbridge.

The Cambridge Gates is so selective because it considers all nationalities and all subjects, whilst Rhodes and Ertugun schemes are more selective (USA+Commonwealth for the former, Humanities for the latter); they also require additional application materials where you can make a difference.

[Averroes MD]

2 minutes ago, Cpt Jo said:

I've no idea about US programs as I haven't applied to any of them, but since you come from Harvard, you should still apply to Oxbridge.

The Cambridge Gates is so selective because it considers all nationalities and all subjects, whilst Rhodes and Ertugun schemes are more selective (USA+Commonwealth for the former, Humanities for the latter); they also require additional application materials where you can make a difference.

 

Thank you, my friend. I can't imagine how frustrating it must be to get accepted to a program but not get funding. You may want to consider applying to US PhD programs as well next time around. Good luck!

Edited March 28, 2016 by Averroes MD

[Cpt Jo]

13 minutes ago, Averroes MD said:

Also, can UK PhD programs offer funding from their bursaries to international students, or does that never happen?

Not sure of what you mean, but if by "bursaries" you mean giving scholarships from their own departmental funds, the answer is no.

They don't have recurrent funds like US top programs. The university pays their salaries and then all their money comes from grants.

7 minutes ago, Averroes MD said:

 

Thank you, my friend. I can't imagine how frustrating it must be to get accepted to a program but not get funding. You may want to consider applying to US PhD programs as well next time around. Good luck!

I haven't updated my sig, it's from last year, but yes rejecting an offer from Oxford hurts.

I've already been unsuccessful at Cambridge. Now I'm waiting for the results at Oxford this week. I'm not confident. 

Edited March 28, 2016 by Cpt Jo

[Averroes MD]

3 minutes ago, Cpt Jo said:

Not sure of what you mean, but if by "bursaries" you mean giving scholarships from their own departmental funds, the answer is no.

Yes, that's what I meant.

Quote

I haven't updated my sig, it's from last year, but yes rejecting an offer from Oxford hurts.

Yes, I am scared of this myself.

Quote

I've already been unsuccessful at Cambridge. Now I'm waiting for the results at Oxford this week. I'm not confident. 

Have faith. In the career before this, I received a million and a half rejections and then one acceptance at an excellent program. After half a million rejections, I could barely get up in the morning. But, then alas, success.

Good luck, and please let me know how it goes!

Edited March 28, 2016 by Averroes MD

[Concordia]

8 hours ago, Cpt Jo said:

 

 Now I'm waiting for the results at Oxford this week. I'm not confident. 

Best of luck!  Someone there obviously thinks well of you, so something may break.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Concordia

[elinen]

17 hours ago, Averroes MD said:

Also, can UK PhD programs offer funding from their bursaries to international students, or does that never happen?

It does happen. The LSE, for instance, has its own PhD scholarships and international (non-EU) students have received these. http://www.lse.ac.uk/intranet/students/moneyMatters/financialSupport/ScholarshipsLSE/PhDApp/LSEPhDStudentships.aspx

 

 

[Cpt Jo]

1 hour ago, elinen said:

It does happen. The LSE, for instance, has its own PhD scholarships and international (non-EU) students have received these. http://www.lse.ac.uk/intranet/students/moneyMatters/financialSupport/ScholarshipsLSE/PhDApp/LSEPhDStudentships.aspx

 

 

Yes, it's because LSE did not receive governmental funding in the Humanities, but - as they have the money - they decided to set their own scheme. It's the same at Warwick.

[Malthusian]

On 3/25/2016 at 0:42 PM, Cpt Jo said:

At Oxford they say DPhil, at Cambridge they say PhD. 

 

Otherwise, Oxford has MPhil programs that are two years long, from which you can embark in a 2-year DPhil (2+2 route). Both Mst in US History are only one year long though.

The application form for Cambridge is way longer to fill than Oxford's. 

International Fees:

Oxford: £18.5K for DPhil, £20.5K for Masters.

Cambridge: £20K for PhD, £20.5K for Masters.

You should also consider the fact that housing is very expensive there (Cambridge being a bit cheaper). Count at least £6K per year - if you're willing to commute and share, otherwise it's much more.

 

As Prosopographer said above, they send quite a lot of offers. However the real selection is made through funding as they only give 30 PhDs scholarships per year on average (I think it's the same figure for Cambridge).

Funding is almost impossible to get for international students, unless you're one of those crazy guys who can get a Gates or Rhodes scholarship.

 

Note: I found the admission statistics for 2014 entry:

There were 268 applications for a PhD in History (+Art and Medicine) and 167 offers. Admission rate: 62%.

There were 667 applications for a Master in History (+Art and Medicine) and 338 offers. Admission rate: 51%.

 

However:

30 PhD offers were funded; funding/offers=18%

24 masters were funded; funding/offers=7%

 

 

See the number of applications for each program last year:  https://weblearn.ox.ac.uk/access/content/group/e862de08-70ab-4873-8dec-f493382c969a/noticeboard/gjcc_latest_minutes.pdf

 

Thanks for posting this information. Do you happen to have the source of where you got the offer rate? (The pdf doesn't seem to show it). 
 

Also, happen to know what the application/offer rate is for D.Phil History (Economic and Social History)?

[boomah]

On 3/28/2016 at 9:08 AM, Cpt Jo said:

 

The remaining funding schemes are the Clarendon, the Ertegun and the Rhodes scholarships; they are open to internationals, but the competition is really tough.

There's also the Marshall and UK Fulbright, but they're just as difficult to get.

[Concordia]

On 3/26/2016 at 7:42 AM, Cpt Jo said:

Oxford has MPhil programs that are two years long, from which you can embark in a 2-year DPhil (2+2 route). Both Mst in US History are only one year long though.

Cambridge's MPhil is a 1-year program, roughly comparable to Oxford's MSt.  

Cambridge's MSt is part-time, and stretches what would normally be the MPhil's workload over 2 years.

[Cpt Jo]

On 12/4/2016 at 2:44 PM, Malthusian said:

 

Thanks for posting this information. Do you happen to have the source of where you got the offer rate? (The pdf doesn't seem to show it). 
 

Also, happen to know what the application/offer rate is for D.Phil History (Economic and Social History)?

No, they removed it. I don't think I was supposed to see this information. 

I don't know about ESH PhD, but I think the numbers I gave include all PhDs (History, History of Medicine, ESH).