Accelerating PhD

[Levon3]

I apologize if this is discussed elsewhere--I searched but couldn't find a thread. My question is: how common/possible is it for a PhD to completed in 4 years? My program's description says that it can be done if you have a masters degree, but it sounds like it's heavily discouraged. I also know that even if I plan to try for 4 years (or even 5) that there can be factors that prolong it. I just want to know if I should even try.

What factors should I consider around this? It would be nice for personal reasons, but I'm not sure how feasible it would be or if I would greatly be sacrificing publication/career-building opportunities.

[fuzzylogician]

Well, what are your post-PhD goals? There is hardly any case in which I would recommend this to someone who wants a career in academia. At most I would say, you can try to be on track to graduating in four years and go on the job market early, so you can file your dissertation if you magically get your dream job that first time around. However, most likely, your first time on the job market will not yield what you might hope for, especially as a relatively unknown student with just three years of experience (since you will be applying in the beginning of your fourth year). An extra fully funded, carefree year to write and publish without the complication of also teaching/service (not to mention the job insecurity you are likely to experience at your first job, and the time you will spend applying for more jobs once you get there) will be extra helpful. I think that extra year is invaluable in terms of experience, ability to publish, network, etc., and to prep you for what will come next. 

[Levon3]

Thanks fuzzylogician. Right now I do think I'll pursue academia, so your advice is very helpful.

[eternallyephemeral]

Sorry if I'm highjacking this thread, but if you're interested in industry, do you see any downsides to trying to finish more quickly?

I've heard from many people that the best dissertation for a student going into industry is a done dissertation. Meaning that there's no use in trying to make it perfect, just go out there and get a job.

Naturally, it could take longer for various reasons, and my program has part-time internships that may slow things down but that would be really valuable to pursue while in the degree.

Does anyone think it would be a negative to aim to finish earlier? Thanks very much!

[St Andrews Lynx]

18 hours ago, Levon3 said:

What factors should I consider around this? It would be nice for personal reasons, but I'm not sure how feasible it would be or if I would greatly be sacrificing publication/career-building opportunities.

In the sciences, your dissertation research is often turned into publications as you go along. They're kinda two sides to the same coin. 

It is really lab & field specific. I know of science students who can get out in 4.5 years with a good list of publications, and who never have issues getting a job. But you also have to have a PI who supports you getting out quickly. Some PIs view 5 years as a fixed term, so even if you obtain good results they may still intend for you to stick around for the whole 5 years. 

It also depends a little bit on luck. You want to be assigned to a project that can generate enough results in under 5 years. If you are doing something that has never been done before then who knows if it will work or not? Sure, you could be in the lab 90 hours per week for 4 years, but be so unlucky on projects that you still don't get enough data for a thesis. 

As you start your PhD, my advice would be to talk to your PI about their expectations for successful completion (do you need x number of papers, for instance). Choose a lab where the students defend within a sensible time limit (you do not want to be where the 7th year PhDs are, under any circumstances). Work hard and work smart, but I wouldn't obsess about a 4 vs 5 year deadline: grad school is stressful enough without adding more arbitrary hurdles.

[TakeruK]

In my field, you graduate when you find a post-PhD job (whether it's industry or academia). In my program specifically, there aren't a lot of milestones beyond the 3rd year that would hold someone back from graduation. The minimum time to graduate here is 3 years and basically at any time after 3 years, if you have your next thing lined up, you will be able to graduate (here, the assumption is that if you did not do enough work to graduate, then you wouldn't be able to get a post-PhD job lined up). 

At first, I was aiming for 4 years too (since I had a 2 year masters before, this would be 6 years total). However, after awhile here, I came to the same conclusion as fuzzy---the extra year where I don't have to be constantly applying for the next job/grant is very valuable and I would rather spend 5 years here and get a great postdoc than to hurry and finish in 4 years with a mediocre postdoc. 

Finally, something I didn't realise when I started was that the postdoc life is extremely transient. In my field, postdoc appointments are usually 2 or 3 years. So this means that starting in your final year of grad school, you are on the job market every single year. Being on the job market is a very time consuming task! You spend weeks/months writing proposals, setting up talks, visiting, etc. Even postdocs on 2 or 3 year appointments (in my field) will be applying for better jobs during the first year of their new postdoc. Some postdocs here just graduated 12 months ago, started their postdoc 6 months ago and are currently interviewing for TT faculty jobs. Other postdocs are applying for prize fellowships or better positions.

Most of the postdocs I know who aren't applying for jobs are those who: 1) Have a 3-4 year postdoc (rare in my field) or 2) already have a prize fellowship (although most of them with prize fellowships are top candidates for TT positions so they are applying for those!). There are a few postdocs who want more stability and aren't applying until their final postdoc year though, but most people want to keep their options open and like being able to apply to additional jobs "without pressure" (i.e. they can stay for the 2nd or 3rd year of their appointment if they don't find something better).

So, after realising this, although grad student isn't the best paying position, if you want to aim for TT positions in my field, it sounds like one could gain a lot more out of staying in grad school for 1 extra year (where you can do research without worrying about funding yourself) than to start the postdoc game early.

[Eigen]

Very field specific. 

I have two colleagues that finished in 3.5-4 years, and did well with post-PhD placement. 

That said, the amount of stress (as has been mentioned) with finishing up and doing job applications can be immense. 

Additionally, you are frequently at the peak of your productivity in your 4th or 5th year. Frequently, you can drastically increase your publications (in STEM) by staying that extra year (or two), and cranking out more work related to your dissertation.

[Levon3]

Thank you @Eigen and @TakeruK! It sounds like I will need to ask more people from my program what is best. I am in the social sciences. I appreciate your insights!

[HYHY02]

Just to reiterate what others have said, your PI is a big factor. One PI I'm currently working with (who most likely will be my PhD supervisor if I decide on a PhD) has explicitly told me he would try to get his students out before 4 years so they can get their "independence" (he himself finished his PhD in about 3.5 years in the same program I'm applying to). I've also spoken to students in another lab I was thinking of joining where no PhD student has finished before 5 years, both due to the type of work (time of experiments) and some not so great personal traits/beliefs of the PI.

Edited March 30, 2016 by HYHY02