INSEAD/SAIS MBA/MA

[ub3rmensch]

Can anyone speak of this dual-degree program between SAIS and INSEAD. Also, in what capacity is MBA/MA truly worth it? 

[MD guy]

Wtf is even INSEAD? Sounds like a scam university. I know it's not, but I also doubt any public service/business dual degree is worth it. They serve two entirely different purposes and people should decide before enrolling in a master's degree what they want to do with their lives, not after racking up debt and spending unnecessary years of a life in school.

[TemujinAmbition]

On 6/6/2016 at 0:22 PM, MD guy said:

Wtf is even INSEAD? Sounds like a scam university. I know it's not, but I also doubt any public service/business dual degree is worth it. They serve two entirely different purposes and people should decide before enrolling in a master's degree what they want to do with their lives, not after racking up debt and spending unnecessary years of a life in school.

INSEAD is one of top 5 business schools in the world. It is right up there with HBS of Harvard and Wharton of UPenn. Maybe it seem like scam name to Americans since they don't know many schools outside of USA, but it is elite and has comparable placements/salaries as the American elite business schools. However, I would personally prefer an American joint program; as MD's unawareness demonstrates, INSEAD isn't as well known in the US as the top american schools if you intend to work in USA. Dartmouth tuck and Harvard kennedy have a joint degree program, for example.

They are two different degrees, but they could serve harmonious purpose. For example, you would be more attractive for management level positions at NGO or for certain federal government jobs with both MBA and MIA/MPA. However, you would not be making as much money as your B-school classmate buddies who will be making big dollars at Bain consulting, so you should keep that in mind. Really, you should consider your career goal before undertaking the joint program and where you want to work. Then measure the cost and benefits. Does it boost your career goal, and is it worth the cost? SAIS and INSEAD would be solid, and would work well abroad and even in US. But I think an even better option would be to do joint in USA, since you will have recognition of degrees both abroad and in US. Basically every ivy school that has both business school and policy school runs a joint program (e.g. Harvard, Columbia, even UPenn has policy school exclusively for joint degree students), so I would look into those in addition to SAIS Insead

[MD guy]

1 hour ago, TemujinAmbition said:

INSEAD is one of top 5 business schools in the world. It is right up there with HBS of Harvard and Wharton of UPenn. Maybe it seem like scam name to Americans since they don't know many schools outside of USA, but it is elite and has comparable placements/salaries as the American elite business schools. However, I would personally prefer an American joint program; as MD's unawareness demonstrates, INSEAD isn't as well known in the US as the top american schools if you intend to work in USA. Dartmouth tuck and Harvard kennedy have a joint degree program, for example.

Deferring to my international friend, obviously. If you want to work in the USA, stick with a business school that Americans know.

[TemujinAmbition]

 

4 hours ago, MD guy said:

Deferring to my international friend, obviously. If you want to work in the USA, stick with a business school that Americans know.

Correct, if your plans involve working in the US, you would probably be better served at a comparable American B-School than at INSEAD. Not to criticize INSEAD, it is still top school, it's just that Americans will know better the colleges in their own country and would be more comfortable with their own top-notch B-Schools. Ubermensch ought to specify what country they want to work in after finishing. Btw I like the nietzche reference 

Edited June 8, 2016 by TemujinAmbition

[ub3rmensch]

5 hours ago, TemujinAmbition said:

 

Correct, if your plans involve working in the US, you would probably be better served at a comparable American B-School than at INSEAD. Not to criticize INSEAD, it is still top school, it's just that Americans will know better the colleges in their own country and would be more comfortable with their own top-notch B-Schools. Ubermensch ought to specify what country they want to work in after finishing. Btw I like the nietzche reference 

The problem is I'm not sure exactly what I want to do. And I'm always surprised when other people do. I want an MBA, and I'll probably pursue an MBA or even an EMBA down the line, but I need work experience. I'm thinking of getting into an MA program to get a private sector/multilateral job and work for a few years and then apply to B-schools. Money is fortunately not an issue for the MA program, I might have to take loans out for the MBA. 

I wish I could just apply to B-schools right now, but my lackluster profile is not a match for the top 15. And I'd rather wait and make my profile stronger than to attend a mediocre B-school. Hopefully, in this process I can narrow down what kind of jobs I'm interested in. Right now my interests are a little all over including World Bank, management consulting, i-banking for developing world, etc. 

[MD guy]

7 hours ago, ub3rmensch said:

Right now my interests are a little all over including World Bank, management consulting, i-banking for developing world, etc. 

Sounds like the answer is work experience since you need it for the MBA anyway. You haven't seen enough yet. Either way, I don't think INSEAD is the answer, "top" as it may be. Top American MBA would open doors worldwide but an unknown top global program closes many doors in America (slight exaggeration).

[TemujinAmbition]

9 hours ago, ub3rmensch said:

The problem is I'm not sure exactly what I want to do. And I'm always surprised when other people do. I want an MBA, and I'll probably pursue an MBA or even an EMBA down the line, but I need work experience. I'm thinking of getting into an MA program to get a private sector/multilateral job and work for a few years and then apply to B-schools. Money is fortunately not an issue for the MA program, I might have to take loans out for the MBA. 

I wish I could just apply to B-schools right now, but my lackluster profile is not a match for the top 15. And I'd rather wait and make my profile stronger than to attend a mediocre B-school. Hopefully, in this process I can narrow down what kind of jobs I'm interested in. Right now my interests are a little all over including World Bank, management consulting, i-banking for developing world, etc. 

If you plan on doing both degrees separately, then you can't be looking at joint programs at all, including Hopkins and Insead or any other program. This is because joint degrees are, unsurprisingly, completed jointly. Plus, since you must gain admission into both programs, and you are not competitive applicant for B-School, you will likely be rejected outright by the joint programs. So you should stop considering these for the immediate future.

Since both an MBA and MIA require work experience, you would probably be best served by working instead of diving nose straight into school. Truthfully, you have no choice, since very few people are ever admitted without work to MIA/MPP programs (with occasional exceptions, one of my fraternity brothers was in at Hopkins straight from undergraduate, but he was international and had strong foreign experiences). And with B-Schools, it is literally impossible to get admission in USA without working experiences (unless you are Mark Zuckerberg type applicant). After some time with work, you will be stronger applicant, and then you can apply to joint program. Plus, you will have added boost of having better idea of what you want to do. Maybe you realize you only need an MBA, or you only need an MIA. Maybe you realize you need both. Who knows. 

If you really want, you can do degrees separate as you say. Normally, I'd advice to think hard before going to school and losing lots of money. However, since your degree is free, I give you unique advice and say that it probably wouldn't hurt so much for you to go do MIA. Really, the only loss is the opportunity cost of not working full time for 1-2 years. However, I think you would gain benefit from having a versatile degree like MIA/MPP in your belt, so the pluses outweight the minus. No matter what tho, you need to have some work experience before applying, unless you have some uniquely exceptional international/government experience like my fraternity brother. Btw, how do you have a free masters but not a free MBA? Did you win a government masters only scholarship like pickering fellow or something?

Edited June 8, 2016 by TemujinAmbition

[MD guy]

27 minutes ago, TemujinAmbition said:

Btw, how do you have a free masters but not a free MBA? Did you win a government masters only scholarship like pickering fellow or something?

I think he means that he has enough money to fund the MA but not enough to bankroll a full top-tier MBA

[TemujinAmbition]

8 hours ago, MD guy said:

I think he means that he has enough money to fund the MA but not enough to bankroll a full top-tier MBA

If this this is the case, then he should wisely consider which degree or degrees he needs. He should not be blowing his saved-up money on MIA and then taking out loans for MBA if it so happens to turn out that he only needed the MBA all along. Truthfully, if you are paying out of your pockets, I think he should think very long and hard before applying for two graduate degrees instead of just one. And if they are paying cash for their degree, then which one they pay in cash and which one they pay with loans is arbitrary since both MBA and MIA/MPP tuition are roughly similar. Ubermensch specifically say money is not issue for MA, which is why he assumed he had a scholarship that was only specific to MA. However, if it is like Doctor MD says, then you should reflect deeply before you commit to dual-degrees. It would be a shame to take out extra loans for no reason

Edited June 9, 2016 by TemujinAmbition

[ub3rmensch]

3 hours ago, TemujinAmbition said:

If this this is the case, then he should wisely consider which degree or degrees he needs. He should not be blowing his saved-up money on MIA and then taking out loans for MBA if it so happens to turn out that he only needed the MBA all along. Truthfully, if you are paying out of your pockets, I think he should think very long and hard before applying for two graduate degrees instead of just one. And if they are paying cash for their degree, then which one they pay in cash and which one they pay with loans is arbitrary since both MBA and MIA/MPP tuition are roughly similar. Ubermensch specifically say money is not issue for MA, which is why he assumed he had a scholarship that was only specific to MA. However, if it is like Doctor MD says, then you should reflect deeply before you commit to dual-degrees. It would be a shame to take out extra loans for no reason

Thanks for the reply. I realize that the dual degree option is not feasible atm. Fortunately my rents are willing to fund the MA program. There's no problem there. Yes, there is an opportunity cost of working and making money for 2 years, but that will likely be some sort of admin position, which I dread. Going to a school like SAIS/Elliott, etc. will provide me with a network and a decent private sector/multilateral job for a few years before applying to a B-school. 

My major was in a completely different field from what I am now pursuing. So the career change doesn't help my situation. I am currently a Peace Corps volunteer so I can show some sort of work experience when applying to MA programs.

It's really sad how the whole school/job process has become. Unless you were smart during undergrad and got awesome internship opportunities or you are well connected, you won't be able to get a good job out of undergrad. That's why I joined PC.

I just want to make sure the path I'm taking will minimize the regrets I have in the future. Undergrad to PC to MA to Work to MBA to a good paying job with upward mobility. 

Edited June 9, 2016 by ub3rmensch

[TemujinAmbition]

23 hours ago, ub3rmensch said:

Thanks for the reply. I realize that the dual degree option is not feasible atm. Fortunately my rents are willing to fund the MA program. There's no problem there. Yes, there is an opportunity cost of working and making money for 2 years, but that will likely be some sort of admin position, which I dread. Going to a school like SAIS/Elliott, etc. will provide me with a network and a decent private sector/multilateral job for a few years before applying to a B-school. 

My major was in a completely different field from what I am now pursuing. So the career change doesn't help my situation. I am currently a Peace Corps volunteer so I can show some sort of work experience when applying to MA programs.

It's really sad how the whole school/job process has become. Unless you were smart during undergrad and got awesome internship opportunities or you are well connected, you won't be able to get a good job out of undergrad. That's why I joined PC.

I just want to make sure the path I'm taking will minimize the regrets I have in the future. Undergrad to PC to MA to Work to MBA to a good paying job with upward mobility. 

Wow, why didn't you say you were Kennedy Peace Corps volunteer. You will be a shoe-ins for many good IR schools, assuming of course that your undergrad transcript and other application components are decent. 

If mom and dad are willing to pay for two degrees, then you have no problem. Pursue your current path as you laid out. HOWEVER, if mom and dad will only pay for one degree, i.e. either Master's or MBA, but not both, then you should think very very very hard before pursuing your path. You don't want to incur extra debt for the second degree if not necessary. To be honest, you probably don't even need a Master's to get a somewhat decent, non-administrative job in DC if you finish your service. I'm not sure if you realize this, but Peace Corps is very powerful in Washington, it's almost like being a soldier veteran (though not quite, but still comparable). Just by being PC, you will be given special preference for government jobs, for example. So if parents will only pay for one degree, consider that you can go straight to semi-decent job and might not need Master's. This way, save up that precious money for the MBA. So decide very, very carefully whether or not you need both degrees. If you do, that's fine. But if not, just stick with one. Again, disregard that last sentence if mom and dad are willing to pay for both Master's and MBA. If that's the case, I would recommend doing the Master's first; it can't hurt you really and it will make you somewhat more competitive for jobs, plus you'll learn a lot. I wouldn't worry too much about the opportunity cost of not going full time job, as I said before, since you will be investing in your future by going to school

Edited June 10, 2016 by TemujinAmbition

[ub3rmensch]

1 hour ago, TemujinAmbition said:

Wow, why didn't you say you were Kennedy Peace Corps volunteer. You will be a shoe-ins for many good IR schools, assuming of course that your undergrad transcript and other application components are decent. 

If mom and dad are willing to pay for two degrees, then you have no problem. Pursue your current path as you laid out. HOWEVER, if mom and dad will only pay for one degree, i.e. either Master's or MBA, but not both, then you should think very very very hard before pursuing your path. You don't want to incur extra debt for the second degree if not necessary. To be honest, you probably don't even need a Master's to get a somewhat decent, non-administrative job in DC if you finish your service. I'm not sure if you realize this, but Peace Corps is very powerful in Washington, it's almost like being a soldier veteran (though not quite, but still comparable). Just by being PC, you will be given special preference for government jobs, for example. So if parents will only pay for one degree, consider that you can go straight to semi-decent job and might not need Master's. This way, save up that precious money for the MBA. So decide very, very carefully whether or not you need both degrees. If you do, that's fine. But if not, just stick with one. Again, disregard that last sentence if mom and dad are willing to pay for both Master's and MBA. If that's the case, I would recommend doing the Master's first; it can't hurt you really and it will make you somewhat more competitive for jobs, plus you'll learn a lot. I wouldn't worry too much about the opportunity cost of not going full time job, as I said before, since you will be investing in your future by going to school

Thanks once again. I'll end up applying to a few schools and at the same time looking for jobs. Who knows what'll happen.  Time will tell. Thank you.