Grade conversion for international students

[Monody]

Hey there,

I am currently preparing my applications for different PhD programs and as an international student I am very much wondering about the conversion of my grades to the GPA. I am from Germany where I stand at 1.2-1.3 on a scale from 1.0 (best) to 4.0 (passed) and 5.0 (failed).

My two primary questions are 1) how universities in the US usually convert foreign grades that is for example which service do they use and 2) whether I should write 0.0 as some departments request or calculate my GPA myself and make them aware that I did?

I already contacted two offices who were at least unwilling to say anything and regarding number 2), Princeton said I should fill in my German average (1.3), while others urged me to write 0.0. Regarding the latter, till now I read multiple times that admission committees tend to get confused by it and I imagine that you drop out quickly in case that they set even a very low cut-off point at 2.0 or so.

Maybe some of you have had similar issues and were able to resolve this conundrum so I would be very glad to receive some advice. 

[cool cat]

I know that state departments of education have the ability to translate your grades. Every state has an organization set up, so contact them. I also lived in Germany and understand the rigorous programs they have there, so you are in good shape. Don't rely on universities to do this for you.

 

[fuzzylogician]

5 minutes ago, cool cat said:

I know that state departments of education have the ability to translate your grades. Every state has an organization set up, so contact them. I also lived in Germany and understand the rigorous programs they have there, so you are in good shape. Don't rely on universities to do this for you.

The vast majority of the time, you are *not* going to be required to provide an official conversion of your grades from your local system to the US one. Universities are going to do that on their own, and they have experts who know how to interpret grades from different countries. You are most certainly not going to be the first German student they encounter. They will understand how to interpret your grade (and it's a good one, so you have nothing to worry about!). Beyond that, your LORs will also say that you get good grades, and your transcripts will clearly show that your grades are from a German university so a 1.3 should be interpreted in that context, not as a failing US grade. If your transcript doesn't provide it, the one thing you might try to obtain from your university is a description of how to interpret the grades; that is usually provided as part of the transcript, but if not, maybe someone in your department will be willing to write a quick explanation (or sign their name to something you can find online).

At this point, the advice I would give is to use your grades as they appear on your transcript if the system allows you to do so, or leave it blank if that is an option and you are worried (although I don't think you need to be). 

[Monody]

Thank you for your advice. I probably should worry a bit less in general, but the situation in general is a bit fuzzy. Not knowing how I fare against other applicants is quite uncomfortable, because I am unsure whether I should apply to more lower ranked programs in case that German grades are down-graded in comparison. As you suggested I will most likely just fill in whatever is recommended, so that I don't get disqualified on that ground. Thank you for moving the thread by the way.

[fuzzylogician]

I understand the uneasiness at the uncertainty, but that uncertainty will remain whether or not your grades were converted to the American system. The process is holistic, there is no action you can take or standard you can meet that will guarantee admittance to any program. Although you don't mention what field or degree you are applying for, if this is a research PhD program, your grades will matter but they will by far not be the most important. Prior research experience and your ability to describe it and your research interests more generally in your SOP, your writing sample, the strength of your LORs, and how well the school you are applying to is suited to support your interests (and how well you can articulate that in your SOP) are going to be crucial. One thing you can do is go to the 'people' page of the departments you are considering, and read up on the current students to see if you can detect any characteristics of a successful application (concentrate on 1-2 years so you're not overwhelmed by what they' done while in grad school, what matters is what their profile looked like entering the program). This won't be any guarantee, but can help you get an idea of what the student body looks like, and whether your application will look at all similar. 

[Monody]

I am applying for PhD programs in Political Science specifically at Princeton, Harvard, Columbia, NYU, San Diego, Duke, MIT, and Stanford. 

To put it briefly: on the positive side my research interests fit very well at least at over half the universities. It is in general highly related to projects going at different universities and my (highly quantitative) writing sample touches on that. My GRE will be probably around 166/166/5-5.5, as I recently did one of the PowerPrep tests and scored 165/163 and I still have nearly two months to learn all these ridiculous words. Since I began to work on my SOP about three weeks ago and have a concise research project in mind, I have that covered to some degree. On the negative side, I have little actual research experience and my LoRs won't be perfect. I worked for a year at a research institute before my undergraduate studies, but that was in another subfield and even though I had offers to work as a TA or RA I were unable to take them up, because I didn't fulfil the requirements which those who offered them were unaware off surprisingly. The LoRs are an issue, because I had few courses with actual professors in which I wrote a term paper and most only with PhDs. I got one from a professor with whom I had two courses and who advises my undergraduate thesis. At the same time, she has a completely different approach to Political Science compared to mine which makes the situation - let's say - difficult. The second is a renowned professor of methodology with whom I had a lecture and who will be advised by his research assistant with whom I had 4 courses and who I immensely impressed (he asked me to do the TA for statistics). The third is still up in the air, but I am currently trying to get a research assistant job at my exchange university so maybe I can kill two flies with one stone (I suppose one doesn't say that in English) and get a qualified third LoR and some research experience.

There are some charity extracurriculars, a bunch of internships, and I also speak 4 1/2 languages, but I am aware that they don't count.

I guess I wasted my time again by writing this out once more, because their is no definitive answer, but I will definitely look into the student profiles to gauge my chances. Again thank you.

Edited July 10, 2016 by Monody

[fuzzylogician]

I am in a different field so I can't give you a qualified assessment of your profile, but it doesn't sound that bad to me. It sounds like your grades are good enough to get you past any automatic cutoff, which is really all they need to do. And it sounds like you have a clear idea of what you want to study and the ability to articulate why it matters and why the schools you chose are a good fit for your interests. You've done everything you can to get experience, and as long as you can talk about your classes/papers/internships/etc insightfully, that's really all that matters. Your LORs aren't bad, either. I am not sure why it's a big deal if a professor has a different approach to the theory than you do; what matters is whether or not she thinks you will be successful as a PhD student, and that is a question that goes well beyond this approach to theory or that. I understand your concerns, I wasn't much different at that stage of the application cycle, but as much as anyone can guarantee anything in this process, you are doing everything right, as far as I can tell. And it's birds you kill with the stone, not flies  

[Monody]

Thank you regarding the proverb. It was already quite later yesterday evening.

After further consideration, my fears about her are probably overblown, especially considering what you just wrote. Regarding #2, do you think that it is fine that he is only advised by his research assistant and that we haven't really spoken in person? He has my CV/Resumé and my transcripts as well and I will send him my SOP and my writing sample once I am done with them. 

[fuzzylogician]

13 minutes ago, Monody said:

Regarding #2, do you think that it is fine that he is only advised by his research assistant and that we haven't really spoken in person? He has my CV/Resumé and my transcripts as well and I will send him my SOP and my writing sample once I am done with them. 

As long as the research assistant co-writes the letter with him, that should be fine. The letter should be personalized and include specific examples of anything he says about you, so he needs help from someone who actually knows you and can provide those details. It probably wouldn't hurt to meet with him in person at least once, so he gets some sense of who you are. You could also talk to him about your school choices, if you think he might be appropriate to ask for advice from. Just have a friendly conversation about your research interests and goals for the PhD.