Geology programs that either don't require the GRE or allow you to waiver it

[columbia09]

Does anyone know of any programs that don't require the GRE or at least allow you to wavier it ? I know Oklahoma State doesn't require it but someone at my undergraduate institution said that either Arizona State or U Arizona also don't require it, is that true ? I don't think so because it's still listed as a requirement on their website. Do any Texas schools allow it to be wavered ? 

[GeoDUDE!]

6 hours ago, columbia09 said:

Does anyone know of any programs that don't require the GRE or at least allow you to wavier it ? I know Oklahoma State doesn't require it but someone at my undergraduate institution said that either Arizona State or U Arizona also don't require it, is that true ? I don't think so because it's still listed as a requirement on their website. Do any Texas schools allow it to be wavered ? 

I would call the schools that you are interested in and ask them. You can also check their websites.  The departments usually arnt the ones who closely look at GRE, but the overriding graduate school, which seems to encourage departments to accept students with high gre scores. 

[COGSCI]

Look into Canadian and UK schools (if you are open to it) many programs have full funded programs and do not require GRE 

[columbia09]

37 minutes ago, COGSCI said:

Look into Canadian and UK schools (if you are open to it) many programs have full funded programs and do not require GRE 

I'm not interested in studying abroad. I asked U Miami and a staff member there did say that a professor wrote a letter for a student two years ago and they waivered the requirement. A lot of these schools said that they don't though unfortunately. Any other schools come to mind ?

[GeoDUDE!]

21 minutes ago, columbia09 said:

I'm not interested in studying abroad. I asked U Miami and a staff member there did say that a professor wrote a letter for a student two years ago and they waivered the requirement. A lot of these schools said that they don't though unfortunately. Any other schools come to mind ?

I'm sure you have reasons for not studying abroad... but calgary has a very big Oil and Gas industry, so its worth looking at if it is at all possible to study abroad. You've been on this board a while trying to get into graduate school, if you keep on trying the same thing over and over you are likely to experience the same result. 

[columbia09]

35 minutes ago, GeoDUDE! said:

I'm sure you have reasons for not studying abroad... but calgary has a very big Oil and Gas industry, so its worth looking at if it is at all possible to study abroad. You've been on this board a while trying to get into graduate school, if you keep on trying the same thing over and over you are likely to experience the same result. 

I got into two graduate schools with funding and I wasn't crazy about them. I really would like to go somewhere down south in a large city or out west 

[COGSCI]

If you are planning on studying at a reputable institution in US, I do not recommend looking for schools that do not require GRE. I think you already know that since you have applied to schools like Stanford and UMass. 

[columbia09]

3 hours ago, COGSCI said:

If you are planning on studying at a reputable institution in US, I do not recommend looking for schools that do not require GRE. I think you already know that since you have applied to schools like Stanford and UMass. 

Yes but I've taken this thing 3 times and I don't plan on taking it a fourth. 

[GeoDUDE!]

7 hours ago, columbia09 said:

I got into two graduate schools with funding and I wasn't crazy about them. I really would like to go somewhere down south in a large city or out west 

Have you thought about just not going to graduate school ?

[COGSCI]

6 hours ago, columbia09 said:

Yes but I've taken this thing 3 times and I don't plan on taking it a fourth. 

I see, my GRE scores were not that great so I understand. What about the schools that you've been accepted to? 2years in Texas or Nebraska can't be that bad (I haven't been to these states). If you are talking about PhD, then location definitely matters

[sjoh197]

14 hours ago, columbia09 said:

I got into two graduate schools with funding and I wasn't crazy about them. I really would like to go somewhere down south in a large city or out west 

If I remember correctly, you desperately wanted to get into a Texas school... and you did. You've already got an acceptance at Texas A&M which is a good school. UH and UT Austin & Dallas aren't going to admit you without a GRE score. 

[columbia09]

6 hours ago, GeoDUDE! said:

Have you thought about just not going to graduate school ?

I won't be able to do anything in my field then. My degrees are worthless at the bachelors level and I'm currently employed doing something completely out of my field because I couldn't find a job 

[columbia09]

31 minutes ago, sjoh197 said:

If I remember correctly, you desperately wanted to get into a Texas school... and you did. You've already got an acceptance at Texas A&M which is a good school. UH and UT Austin & Dallas aren't going to admit you without a GRE score. 

That was my first application cycle and they admitted me without funding so I declined.  

[sjoh197]

Just now, columbia09 said:

That was my first application cycle and they admitted me without funding so I declined.  

Ah well... is your nebraska acceptance for a masters? if it is... I would jump on that. It would only be 2 years, and would make you more competitive than you are now for phd applications later (if that is the route you are going). And if not, it would also make you more competitive in the oil industry anyways. And its funded. 

[GeoDUDE!]

2 hours ago, columbia09 said:

I won't be able to do anything in my field then. My degrees are worthless at the bachelors level and I'm currently employed doing something completely out of my field because I couldn't find a job 

Then don't be picky. You are putting your life on hold longer just to get in than the entire degree!  

I'm just trying to help you be realistic. I find it pretty odd that 1) you would apply to somewhere you wouldn't go if you got funding and 2) that you limit so your choices so much despite your significantly flawed application. Something has got to change, for your sake. I'd look at the rules of applying to departments for a 3rd time: a lot of universities won't consider your application after a 2nd time without a stellar reason. I doubt the two departments that accepted you last time (with funding) will accept you again unless you can convince them you won't bail on them this time if you are indeed accepted. 

Edited July 15, 2016 by GeoDUDE!

[columbia09]

28 minutes ago, GeoDUDE! said:

Then don't be picky. You are putting your life on hold longer just to get in than the entire degree!  

I'm just trying to help you be realistic. I find it pretty odd that 1) you would apply to somewhere you wouldn't go if you got funding and 2) that you limit so your choices so much despite your significantly flawed application. Something has got to change, for your sake. I'd look at the rules of applying to departments for a 3rd time: a lot of universities won't consider your application after a 2nd time without a stellar reason. I doubt the two departments that accepted you last time (with funding) will accept you again unless you can convince them you won't bail on them this time if you are indeed accepted. 

I also had problems at home so I couldn't go anyway. I spoke to one of the universities that accepted me and they will consider me again the other university said the same thing last year 

[Usmivka]

So I don't want to be unduly discouraging, but say you get the degree you want, from the place you want. What are your employment prospects given the state of the oil and gas industry in this country? I've got a peer who interned with a major energy company during his PhD and did great work and got along famously. Yet they are so tight on hiring right now he didn't think it likely he'd get a job with them or any energy company when we last spoke. His PhD is from MIT, and he has a first author paper published in Science.

I know that personal and institutional connections are important (I think we should adopt gaunxi, that word makes so much sense in relation to the oil and gas industry) and someplace like Texas A&M might have a leg up over MIT in that regard, but it seems to me that no oil and gas job is a guaranteed thing.

And not to say "I told you so" to anyone here on the forum, but there has been a lot of obviously too positive talk about oil and gas employment when the writing was on the wall for the current downturn for years (http://www.nature.com/articles/481433a). I spoke with one of the authors of the above 2012 paper in Spring of 2015 and he called the mass shuttering of fracking outfits a couple months before the bankruptcies started and the O&G folks started talking honestly about it,  based on their terrible financial filings. Things seem even worse now ( http://fortune.com/2016/03/25/fracking-bankruptcies/).

So long story short--is this degree actually going to help you get a job in the industry you want, and are you going to want to work in that industry given that it no longer means financial security?

Edited July 17, 2016 by Usmivka

[columbia09]

8 hours ago, Usmivka said:

So I don't want to be unduly discouraging, but say you get the degree you want, from the place you want. What are your employment prospects given the state of the oil and gas industry in this country? I've got a peer who interned with a major energy company during his PhD and did great work and got along famously. Yet they are so tight on hiring right now he didn't think it likely he'd get a job with them or any energy company when we last spoke. His PhD is from MIT, and he has a first author paper published in Science.

I know that personal and institutional connections are important (I think we should adopt gaunxi, that word makes so much sense in relation to the oil and gas industry) and someplace like Texas A&M might have a leg up over MIT in that regard, but it seems to me that no oil and gas job is a guaranteed thing.

And not to say "I told you so" to anyone here on the forum, but there has been a lot of obviously too positive talk about oil and gas employment when the writing was on the wall for the current downturn for years (http://www.nature.com/articles/481433a). I spoke with one of the authors of the above 2012 paper in Spring of 2015 and he called the mass shuttering of fracking outfits a couple months before the bankruptcies started and the O&G folks started talking honestly about it,  based on their terrible financial filings. Things seem even worse now ( http://fortune.com/2016/03/25/fracking-bankruptcies/).

So long story short--is this degree actually going to help you get a job in the industry you want, and are you going to want to work in that industry given that it no longer means financial security?

I mean you have a better chance of getting an oil job with a masters then a Bachalors right? I understand what you mean though the industry is down now but won't it recover like it always does ? Oil is the main employer for geology students so that would be devistating if the field never recovers. Also there's always teaching and the environmental industry if oil doesn't work out

[sjoh197]

17 hours ago, Usmivka said:

So I don't want to be unduly discouraging, but say you get the degree you want, from the place you want. What are your employment prospects given the state of the oil and gas industry in this country? I've got a peer who interned with a major energy company during his PhD and did great work and got along famously. Yet they are so tight on hiring right now he didn't think it likely he'd get a job with them or any energy company when we last spoke. His PhD is from MIT, and he has a first author paper published in Science.

I know that personal and institutional connections are important (I think we should adopt gaunxi, that word makes so much sense in relation to the oil and gas industry) and someplace like Texas A&M might have a leg up over MIT in that regard, but it seems to me that no oil and gas job is a guaranteed thing.

And not to say "I told you so" to anyone here on the forum, but there has been a lot of obviously too positive talk about oil and gas employment when the writing was on the wall for the current downturn for years (http://www.nature.com/articles/481433a). I spoke with one of the authors of the above 2012 paper in Spring of 2015 and he called the mass shuttering of fracking outfits a couple months before the bankruptcies started and the O&G folks started talking honestly about it,  based on their terrible financial filings. Things seem even worse now ( http://fortune.com/2016/03/25/fracking-bankruptcies/).

So long story short--is this degree actually going to help you get a job in the industry you want, and are you going to want to work in that industry given that it no longer means financial security?

This is why despite being in The oil city.... I did not apply for oil, I don't want to work for oil, and I think that actually helped my chances, rather than hurt them. 

8 hours ago, columbia09 said:

I mean you have a better chance of getting an oil job with a masters then a Bachalors right? I understand what you mean though the industry is down now but won't it recover like it always does ? Oil is the main employer for geology students so that would be devistating if the field never recovers. Also there's always teaching and the environmental industry if oil doesn't work out

You do have a better chance with the masters, but think about it. What's the competition. You have a bunch of other people who have been laid off, with more experience than you. You have other people graduating with geology degrees because they started before the major glut in oil. Also... saying that there's always teaching and environmental... Think about it. Are these things you actually want to do. Why put time into a degree that may defer you to a job you might not want. It would be different if you truly liked these prospects... but if they are just "there's always".... you are taking quite a gamble. 

[columbia09]

1 hour ago, sjoh197 said:

This is why despite being in The oil city.... I did not apply for oil, I don't want to work for oil, and I think that actually helped my chances, rather than hurt them. 

You do have a better chance with the masters, but think about it. What's the competition. You have a bunch of other people who have been laid off, with more experience than you. You have other people graduating with geology degrees because they started before the major glut in oil. Also... saying that there's always teaching and environmental... Think about it. Are these things you actually want to do. Why put time into a degree that may defer you to a job you might not want. It would be different if you truly liked these prospects... but if they are just "there's always".... you are taking quite a gamble. 

If there's so much competition what are new graduates doing then ? This is why I was hesitant to go to grad school this year. I have a financially secure job now but I hate it, I get called in on my days off all the time, I work horrible hours and the pay won't be decent for another 5 years. I had to take it because I couldn't find anything else. 

[GeoDUDE!]

2 minutes ago, columbia09 said:

If there's so much competition what are new graduates doing then?

Having trouble getting jobs. The only people I know who are doing OK are the geophysics people, but hiring there has stagnated significantly. 

A lot of my geophysics friends who have recently graduated and are not going for postdocs or are getting masters end up in finance or tech. They leverage their strong computational skills into a data science job. 

I know geology undergraduates go back to school sometimes to take a few programming classes as well. 

It just really depends on the skills you build during your degree. If you don't learn how to do something unique you are going to hard time in general. 

[Usmivka]

12 hours ago, columbia09 said:

 I understand what you mean though the industry is down now but won't it recover like it always does ? Oil is the main employer for geology students so that would be devistating if the field never recovers. Also there's always teaching and the environmental industry if oil doesn't work out

I'm not sure what you mean by recover. Yes, there will be oil jobs throughout our lifetime, and there is always noise (positive and negative) but we are on the tail end of the bell curve predicted since the 50s (do read that article). From here on out you are always fighting for a slice of an ever shrinking pie, and there will be an ever larger backlog of more qualified, more experienced workers getting laid off and fighting for the same  jobs. I just gave you an example of someone exceedingly better qualified than most of his competition who still won't get one of these jobs. As for your fallbacks, there are people who are genuinely excited to teach and take advantage of certificate and training programs teach throughout their degrees. These are the people who get hired for teaching jobs (which are also in limited supply) by faculty that care about teaching skill and commitment--not folks who think of teaching as a fallback. Even adjunct positions at community colleges can be fiercely contested, and they don't pay enough to live on in most places. And what exactly is the "environmental industry"? It isn't monolithic, and most of the jobs I know about are focused on ecological restoration, civil engineering, or policy and management. Again, not something that one training for oil and gas exploration naturally fits into compared to the many, many candidates with niche training in precisely those fields, or a wide-ranging PhD with great successes. Frankly, in those fields there can be not a little suspicion and bias against those who chose to train in the extraction of unsustainable resources.

 

2 hours ago, GeoDUDE! said:

Having trouble getting jobs....

It just really depends on the skills you build during your degree. If you don't learn how to do something unique you are going to hard time in general. 

Yes. And I'm not sure unique (or maybe more accurately limited supply) skills are enough, these have to be in demand too. I see current huge growth of data science jobs slowing down in the not distant future--the first graduates of dedicated data science programs have begun to reach the job market just in the last year or so. There will of course be other new fields with rapacious demand for workers, but good luck predicting what those will be far enough ahead of time to perfectly position your skill set.

[sjoh197]

I do know that UL lafayette has an okay masters program for people going into petroleum and decent connections as well. Certainly not top-notch, but you are not going to find anything close to top notch that is going to ignore GRE scores. However, UL has like a 285 score minimum. If you're dead set on heading face first into petroleum, especially without awesome scores and credentials, this could be a place to get your foot in the door. 

[GeoDUDE!]

There are also things like emergency teaching credentials: states are always looking for more science teachers. 

[columbia09]

6 hours ago, sjoh197 said:

I do know that UL lafayette has an okay masters program for people going into petroleum and decent connections as well. Certainly not top-notch, but you are not going to find anything close to top notch that is going to ignore GRE scores. However, UL has like a 285 score minimum. If you're dead set on heading face first into petroleum, especially without awesome scores and credentials, this could be a place to get your foot in the door. 

Ehhhh I rather just go to Oklahoma state