Direct PhD vs PhD after MA and work experience

[AgumonIsAPokemon]

Hi y'all

I'm an international undergrad student majoring in sociology. I will be applying for sociology grad programs this fall. My interest falls into something related to crime and punishment (NYU's David Garland heavily influenced me). Not criminology or law studies btw! 

I haven't really narrowed down my possibilities as I am thinking of the UK, US, and Canada. For now, I am thinking of getting a PhD at some point of my life.

Doing some research, I have noticed the US barely has any terminal sociology MA programs. So if I do apply for an American university, I will apply for a PhD program. If I do get admitted, I will go through the PhD program and hopefully get a PhD. My top-tierish schools I'm applying to are Wisconsin, Berkeley, UCLA, Northwestern, NYU, etc (subject to change).  

On the contrary, Canada and the UK has a lot of terminal masters program. If I do attend a MA program, I was thinking of working 2~3 years after attaining my MA so I can get some insight on my interest outside from of an academic institution/perspective. (I also considered this possibility as I may want to opt out from an academic career after experiencing graduate studies. And I feel like it would be harder to opt out after being admitted into a PhD program as the program is structured for a PhD student, not a MA student). After working for a few years, I think I will reapply for a PhD program. I could apply for a PhD program in both countries (Toronto looks really good) but for some reason I am hesitant about that. 

So here is my question. Is the latter case (MA→work→PhD) a legitimate life course? What are the pros and cons of both cases? I know this is all relative and context based but some sort of insight would help me out a lot. 

[ZombieBirdhouse]

I just graduated from undergraduate so I may not know quite as much as someone who has gone through the whole thing but I feel like I can weigh in a bit. Getting your MA and going back to school is a perfectly legitimate life course, there's nothing wrong with getting a terminal MA and a lot of students do exactly that so there's no harm in doing either or insofar as a happy, successful life course. What I can say objectively is that if you're having doubts about being a professional academic or doubts about graduate life it may be more prudent to get your MA separately because it leaves a lot more room for exploration which it seems like you want to do. The main downside is time and that some PhD programs only accept students directly out of undergraduate, so you might find yourself limited from larger schools, but your work experience might make up for that in the remaining schools. I hope this helps!

[Chai_latte]

A few years ago, I was firmly on the "go straight" side.  I felt (and still feel, to a certain extent) that one never knows what life may bring, and it's ideal to get the PhD done/under one's belt.  However, that has not been my path.  I took time off before the MS.  And, now I'm planning on going straight through to the PhD.  The benefits have been enormous.  While I am older, I have a very clear idea of WHAT I want to study and WHY I want the PhD.  I did not have this insight before; I would've wasted time & money (and/or been miserable)--grave mistake.

Take the time you need to find direction first.  Some people may find that starting at 22 is ideal.  But, this isn't a one-size-fits-all kind of thing.

[Beals]

I finished my MA in 2014 (Canadian university).  I'm applying this fall with hopes of starting my PhD in 2017.  Took the last 3 years to work locally, work abroad (Europe), and am now back home working and applying.  I was literally never once tempted to not go back.  Perhaps that's unusual?  I don't know, but I think if you're the type of person who isn't totally sure about grad school then those doubts will pop up whether you're in a program or not.  And of course, things can happen that preclude you from going back (I'm not sure what would've had to happen to stop me, but perhaps a serious financial misfortune??  Everyone's situation is different).

MA - Work - PhD is very common.  Again, I'm coming from Canada so perhaps my perspective is different (because MAs are always terminal), but many of my profs actually suggested I take a year before going from MA-PhD (my MA was only one year so I was having trouble narrowing down research interests) so that I could figure out what I wanted to do.  I ended up taking 3 years off because I wanted to 1) pay off some debt, and 2) fulfill some of my nonsense romantic nomadic travelling desires (I did and it was great).  I personally also value the perspective it has given me- the anticipation to get back in to a program is so great now I imagine I'll cherish it more than I would have had I gone straight from my MA.  Tangibly, I've also gotten some interesting life experiences I think will help me do work as a social theorist.  

If you want to work in industry after your MA that will absolutely help you out when/if you go back for a PhD (translating your own practice into theory- why wouldn't that be an asset!?).  

On 8/6/2016 at 9:25 AM, Chai_latte said:

Take the time you need to find direction first.  Some people may find that starting at 22 is ideal.  But, this isn't a one-size-fits-all kind of thing.

This is really the best advice I think.  No sense going aimlessly into a PhD program- you might end up squandering the opportunity accidentally.  

TL;DR: yes, MA-Work-PhD is common.  There are some benefits to it as well.  

[Beals]

On 8/5/2016 at 9:25 PM, ZombieBirdhouse said:

 The main downside is time and that some PhD programs only accept students directly out of undergraduate, so you might find yourself limited from larger schools, but your work experience might make up for that in the remaining schools. 

Hi ZombieBirdhouse,

Out of curiosity- I've never seen a dept that states having an MA will make you inadmissible.  Or do you mean having work experience precludes you from admission?  Could you clarify and/or mention some programs that stipulate this?  Honestly, I'm a little nervous now!

Also, wise advice about waiting till you're sure about which life course you want  

[pinoysoc]

From personal experience, it depends. Some undergraduates have the resume (a.k.a. summer research opportunities + a very competitive CV) and they get accepted to the programs they want. At the same time, there are people (like myself) who did pretty well as undergrad, but didn't get into PhD programs right away. IT gave me the chance to narrow my research interests and explore what field you want to end up in. In Sociology's (my personal opinion by the way) case, admissions committees want to see that you already have a clear sense of what your research interests are. In your case, your interests lie in crime and punishment. I think admissions committees are going to pick apart your personal statement and SOP as to what aspect of crime and punishment? Are you planning to examine the changing scope of incarceration in the advent of social justice? Are you interested in the degree of relationship between committed crimes and punishments received? Or are you looking at how social movements in the U.S. are changing the landscape how crime is defined and how punishments are given?

With work experience, you'll be able to asks those kinds of questions and eventually develop you personal research agenda. Working after getting you bachelor's degree isn't as bad as everyone thinks it is. Like my advisor told me, not every individual is the same. Sometimes you have to go with the flow and realized that what you want is still the same thing, but you're getting there from a different route than everyone else. 

 

Hope this helps and I'm sorry if it's drawing from experience... Sorry

[AgumonIsAPokemon]

Sorry for the delay! Thank you all so much for the response! It means a lot. 

[krispykreme]

Why do you want to do PhD if you maybe want to drop out? Ask yourself that question first. 

I don't think anyone thinking about dropping out before they even started should enter a PhD. However if you have good reasons for wanting a PhD but fear what life might bring in between (and lead to you ultimately quitting) then just go for it. Dropping out is not a big deal but entering with that in mind is. 

I entered with gap time (work and ma) bc I worried that I did not know enough about my specific research interest-- these change ALL the time. Unlike the previous posters, I do not think admissions committees care about your specific interests beyond the fact that they offer it in their department. Day 1 of my PhD program, faculty already said "we would ask but we know it will change 100x during your time here." I regret not starting asap. You can drop out anytime in between if you don't think it is the right path, later. However, if it is, then you further delaying this very long time to degree.