Georgetown: MA Security Studies vs MPP vs JD

[Policy24]

I'm looking to make the switch to a policy role related to International Relations/Security, Foreign Policy, or Defense Policy. I'm in the process of interviewing for some opportunities, but also want to pursue graduate education (and believe I'll be able to get at least a partial sponsorship if not full). I'm looking at these 3 programs at Georgetown and trying to figure out which is the best to target. The dream job would be working for the Director of Policy Planning at State or Undersecretary of Defense for Policy. Which of these 3 degrees would set me up best to puruse one of these opportunities? My undergrad is Econ and I'd do the program at night fwiw. 

[Policy24]

Bump

[rob321]

Hey Policy24,

I'm a recent Georgetown SSP grad, so I may be biased. I'm also a mid-career government employee at the DoD and am looking at these boards again because I'm looking into the possibility of doing a PhD in Public Policy just for the heck of it.

All three of these programs are probably likely to get you to where you want to go, but SSP is the one I would recommend, for two main reasons: it will probably be more relevant from a curriculum perspective for the positions you described, and it's shorter than the other programs. I don't think it being a shorter program is a drawback in this instance, because SSP is probably the top program of its kind. Keep in mind though that government hiring officials (and most everyone else in government) are far less concerned with the rankings of programs than people on this board.

But like I said, all three of these programs would likely get you to where you want to go. Because you have an undergrad econ background, you may find that the public policy program has more econ-heavy options, but obviously SSP has better international relations and security studies courses.

As far as a law degree goes, that is far outside my area of expertise, but for what its worth, it seems like that would be an atypical fit for your career goals, and would take twice as long as SSP to complete. But may open up private-sector options that the other two degrees do not. I don't know anything about Georgetown Law grads' private sector job placement.

[DogsArePeopleToo]

Here's what the last 10 directors of policy planning did for their higher education:

• Jonathan Finer (current): JD from Yale, MPhil from Oxford
• David McKean: JD from Duke, MA from Fletcher
• Jake Sullivan: JD from Yale, MPhil from Oxford
• Anne-Marie Slaughter: MPhil from Oxford, JD from Harvard, DPhil from Oxford
• David Gordon: BA from Bowdoin, PhD in political science and economics from University of Michigan
• Stephen Krasner: MA from Columbia, PhD from Harvard
• Mitchell Reiss: MA from Fletcher, JD from Columbia, a higher degree from Oxford
• Richard Haass: MPhil and DPhil from Oxford
• Morton Halperin: BA from Columbia, PhD in IR from Harvard
• Gregory B. Craig: MA from Cambridge, JD from Yale

As you can see, the director of policy planning requires a lot of academic study, and law is a very prominent academic path. (Also very prominent is Ivy-league schools or the Oxbridge).

But more than a type of degree (law vs MA), these people have a lot of degrees, mostly from prominent schools. 

Obviously, millions of people have many degrees from prominent schools, so I'd also look at their professional careers.

In all, if you have the right career path to get you to DoD or State, I'd advise that you do a JD. It's a professional degree that qualifies you to practice law, unlike MA degrees that don't do that. A JD is also far more versatile and can open up more opportunities than an MA.

So, if you have the time, patience and (scholarship) money to do a JD, I'd opt fort hat. I'm obviously biased because I'm inclined to do a JD, but you can't deny its prominence in the list above and the fact that it opens up more doors.

[pubpol101]

5 hours ago, afgun_haund said:

In all, if you have the right career path to get you to DoD or State, I'd advise that you do a JD. It's a professional degree that qualifies you to practice law, unlike MA degrees that don't do that. A JD is also far more versatile and can open up more opportunities than an MA.

 

That's absolutely not advisable. It's not realistic to expect a State or DOD job related to law after law school. They have extremely high expectations since the job market is so flooded--they usually hire those in the top half at Yale, top third at Harvard or Stanford, and top 10% of all other T-14 schools. Expecting to be in the top 10% of a T-14 or top third at Harvard, given the competitive nature of law school curriculum, is just plain stupid.

Of course, State/DOD sometimes do hire outside of those class ranks. Moot court competitions, law review publications, etc. can boost your application, though that boost will be relative to those with higher class ranks at better schools with potentially stronger publications/court competition results. However, that's not the typical scenario and hooks like somehow meeting the person who reviewed your application and making a substantially positive impression (enough to beat out a Yale law grad) are very hard to come by.

DO NOT go to law school expecting a State/DOD job or a federal clerkship, even if you're admitted to Yale.

Edited August 27, 2016 by AAAAAAAA

[Policy24]

17 hours ago, rob321 said:

Hey Policy24,

I'm a recent Georgetown SSP grad, so I may be biased. I'm also a mid-career government employee at the DoD and am looking at these boards again because I'm looking into the possibility of doing a PhD in Public Policy just for the heck of it.

All three of these programs are probably likely to get you to where you want to go, but SSP is the one I would recommend, for two main reasons: it will probably be more relevant from a curriculum perspective for the positions you described, and it's shorter than the other programs. I don't think it being a shorter program is a drawback in this instance, because SSP is probably the top program of its kind. Keep in mind though that government hiring officials (and most everyone else in government) are far less concerned with the rankings of programs than people on this board.

But like I said, all three of these programs would likely get you to where you want to go. Because you have an undergrad econ background, you may find that the public policy program has more econ-heavy options, but obviously SSP has better international relations and security studies courses.

As far as a law degree goes, that is far outside my area of expertise, but for what its worth, it seems like that would be an atypical fit for your career goals, and would take twice as long as SSP to complete. But may open up private-sector options that the other two degrees do not. I don't know anything about Georgetown Law grads' private sector job placement.

Thanks for the response - it's great to hear from someone who was in SSP. I've pretty much narrowed it down to SSP vs Law, but threw in the MPP to see if anyone thought I should do that. I'm looking for something more international relations and security studies (not econ like my undergrad) so the program definitely feels like a good fit. If you don't mind me asking, why the PhD now? That was something I was thinking about SSP to PhD in Policy or just the JD so would be great to get some color on that. Also if you don't mind me asking a few questions: 1) what type of role are you in now? 2) did you move roles after SSP or plan to after the PhD? 3) Did the DoD pay for SSP and would they if you left for a few years to get your PhD? 4) How do you think the SSP helped you in your role? 

 

My parents are both lawyers so I know what being a lawyer in private practice entails and I don't want that as a career. I'm trying to figure out if getting policy roles for an org like the DoD or DoS (and working my way up) is possible without the JD or if I should do it. Georgetown's JD with a concentration in National Security Law looks like it would have some really interesting classes related to this field too and it appears they are the best school for that type of law (but I could be wrong). 

[rob321]

Replied in a PM.

[MD guy]

On August 27, 2016 at 3:37 AM, afgun_haund said:

So, if you have the time, patience and (scholarship) money to do a JD, I'd opt fort hat. I'm obviously biased because I'm inclined to do a JD, but you can't deny its prominence in the list above and the fact that it opens up more doors.

Yes I can. One cannot say that since the JD is so prominent in people holding these positions, the JD must have some intrinsic advantage over other degrees. That is inaccurate in our current state of affairs. In a past generation, when those people went to school, there were not established MPP/MPA or MA programs they could go to. Interested generally in policy? JD it was. Interested in running for office? JD it was. Now? There is no reason to advise someone who has no interest in being a lawyer to go for the JD with the plethora of other options. It is a monumental opportunity cost that could be much better spent elsewhere. Also, the JD is not a versatile degree. Ask anyone on TLS forums (top-law-schools) this and they will say it is the first myth one should get out one's head. It is a trade degree and pigeonholes you into practicing law and teaches you nothing but how to practice law, save for a couple of the top schools that actually incorporate real policy work into the curriculum. We see a lot of prominent folks with the JD strutting around because 1) of the past education market as mentioned and 2) the literal act of practicing law blows a lot of balls and many people don't realize this until their first job as an attorney, so they leave. What does it say about a degree where so many of its graduates want nothing to do with their professional trade and decide to leave? That's certainly more of a wake-up call about the practice of law than it is an endorsement of the JD being versatile. With the Masters market as populated as it is currently, many "JD advantage" jobs are preferentially given to people who don't command as much salary as JDs typically do.  Are there employers who get wet upon seeing the stacked resume of a T6 JD? Yes, there are. Do you want to bank your future on being one of those rock stars to break into government? No, you don't. You don't want to be the guy with dreams of public service that ends up in a 50 lawyer corporate shop after graduation in order to pay off the debt and hate your job of practicing law. It happens all day every day. You want a low cost degree that will get your foot out the door of education and into the door of employment ASAP. If you do not want to practice law, do not get a JD. If you think you may want to practice law first before jumping to whatever job it is you truly want, make damn sure you know what practicing law is like before you make the commitment. Unless your family is rich and can pay it all for you anyway, then this is all hogwash and you should do whatever your trust fund allows you to.

Edited September 3, 2016 by MD guy