Presentations & Publications During Undergrad

[vse]

Hello folks: 

Searching through old threads on this topic, I have seemed to hear two things repeated here and there: (1) Presentations during undergraduate don't matter or don't matter much and (2) You shouldn't publish as an undergraduate. I wanted to reach out, if possible, and ask if this resonates as true (the answers I found were disparate and it wasn't the primary focus of questioning); if so, then I am concerned about what the potential for harm is. 

I have presented at two conferences and have a few abstracts out for consideration - one was a poster session and one was a presentation; neither were undergraduate (I do also have one of those, but tend to be conflicted about including it on my C.V at all because the paper was out of my AOIs. Part of the reason I am starting this thread is that in a lot of prior ones people were assuming the OP was referring to undergraduate presentations). They were sincerely some of the best experiences of my life and solidified my decision to enter Philosophy, so I wouldn't change them - they also pushed me out of my comfort zone and I grew a lot. 

It would of course disappoint me if my conference activity won't be of help given the time and labor that has gone in to making them possible, but it wouldn't change my desire to attend / participate / present. Given that, I am wondering what harm I could do unintentionally and if there are any notes of caution I should keep in mind. 

I am also wondering about the possibility for networking. I have had the opportunity to speak with and meet Philosophers in my AOI at multiple universities, as well as make connections within professional orgs. that contain more, and this includes those who work at graduate schools I might want to apply to. I value those relationships for their own sake, but am wondering if my intuition that I should take that opportunity seriously and follow through - that it could help - is correct.

Finally, I received unexpected positive feedback on the last paper I presented and was encouraged to publish and asked that I share further edits. I am unsure that everyone who made that recommendation was aware I was an undergraduate student (I didn't hide it; it just didn't come up). Should I not do this out of risk that the work I produce will not be what I want associated with my name one, two, five, ten, etc. years down the road?

Thank you for your time!

Edited December 17, 2016 by vse

[Glasperlenspieler]

In regards to conferences, I think there's no reason not to put them on your CV. They certainly won't count against you in anyway and they may be of some marginal befefit. The point many here make is simply that merely having a number of conferences presentations on your CV probably won't have much of an impact on how an admissions committee reads your application. Assuming your grades and GRE are up to par, those decsions will probably come down to some combination of writing sample, SOP, recs, and fit. 

That's not to say that conference presentations aren't useful though. As you point out, they can be a great opportunity for growth and networking. So if you have the opportunity to take part in one and it won't be a financial or academic burden, then by all means. But if they do help you in graduate admissions it will probably be indirectly: either because the criticism you receive there allows you to produce a better writing sample or because you make a valuable connection with someone at a program you're applying to, not becaue you have a long list of such presentations on your CV.

Publishing is a little trickier. It's probably important for you to sit down with a trusted advisor and have a candid conversation about the piece in question. It's certainly possible that it's worth pursuing publication. But if so, it's because the piece has the potential to be published in a respected journal in your subfield. What you shouldn't do is settle for a lesser journal just to get it published. In that case you're better off waiting until you've developed your idea and your skills to the point where you can get it into a top-notch journal. The reason for this it that unlike conference presentations, a subpar publication could actually count against you later in your career (or at least that's the worry).

Edited December 17, 2016 by Glasperlenspieler

[Bryterlayter]

I agree with Glasperlenspieler, don't have much else to say on the topic, though I'm not sure if publishing in a subpar journal when you're young would affect you too much. I see it more as working up the ladder, but if you were midway into your career and still only getting published there, I could see it working against you.

I didn't have any conference work or publications in my undergrad and was told it wouldn't matter too much and I shouldn't stress it. It probably helps if you do, sure, but it isn't as big of a deal as it is in other fields eg sciences. I was told that getting experience in classes and being prepared for what you want to study is the important thing. For example, if I want to study ethics, it would be a good idea to show that I've already taken multiple classes in the subject and maybe even begun to learn the appropriate languages for whoever I'm interested in studying in the field. For some reason though, I've noticed that philosophy doesn't tend to push language work early on that much unless you study ancient or eastern, so if you haven't learned the language of the original texts at all and you aren't in either of those fields, I wouldn't worry about learning them until grad school.

[Schopenhauerfanboy]

Conference presentations (esp., at professional conferences) as an undergrad and graduate student can not only enhance your application, but also make you more competitive for a variety of scholarships that use "research ability" as one of their criteria. In Canada, for instance, the SSHRC competitions consider research potential, and having conferences and publications (even in largely unknown journals) can be incredibly helpful. One of my advisors informed me that my application scored a lot higher because my C.V. showed signs of professionalization and research potential (through having conferences and pubs on it). 

Also, presenting at conferences can help you indirectly through starting to build your professional network early. You might even, as has often been the case, build rapport with a professor who can influence an admissions committee with the great impression (s)he gleaned from your presentation -- "oh! I saw applicant give an exceptional presentation of blah blah when he presented at University Y." 

If you can organize a conference yourself (and invite a faculty member with whom you want to work as your keynote speaker), even better! 

 I have, however, heard that as a PhD student, you should avoid publishing suboptimal representations of your work because it can prejudice people against you (even if you later publish significantly better pieces) -- "academic first impression," as it were. 

[Bryterlayter]

6 hours ago, Schopenhauerfanboy said:

Conference presentations (esp., at professional conferences) as an undergrad and graduate student can not only enhance your application, but also make you more competitive for a variety of scholarships that use "research ability" as one of their criteria. In Canada, for instance, the SSHRC competitions consider research potential, and having conferences and publications (even in largely unknown journals) can be incredibly helpful. One of my advisors informed me that my application scored a lot higher because my C.V. showed signs of professionalization and research potential (through having conferences and pubs on it). 

Also, presenting at conferences can help you indirectly through starting to build your professional network early. You might even, as has often been the case, build rapport with a professor who can influence an admissions committee with the great impression (s)he gleaned from your presentation -- "oh! I saw applicant give an exceptional presentation of blah blah when he presented at University Y." 

If you can organize a conference yourself (and invite a faculty member with whom you want to work as your keynote speaker), even better! 

 I have, however, heard that as a PhD student, you should avoid publishing suboptimal representations of your work because it can prejudice people against you (even if you later publish significantly better pieces) -- "academic first impression," as it were. 

Interesting. You specifically mentioned Canada, did you come to these views because you went to school there? I'm in the US and most of my professors have disagreed with this. Not strongly, though.

[Schopenhauerfanboy]

4 hours ago, Bryterlayter said:

Interesting. You specifically mentioned Canada, did you come to these views because you went to school there? I'm in the US and most of my professors have disagreed with this. Not strongly, though.

I am indeed a Canadian graduate student. It's hard to see how presenting at professional conferences as a graduate student (and especially as an undergrad) would not be viewed favourably. What would the case be for that? And in many cases, federal scholarships are awarded to students with more conferences and publications.

Ultimately, though, the quality of one's work matters more than the number of venues in which it has been presented (obvious point). But, in the case of professional conferences, acceptance into them is itself a sign of the quality of one's work, and I think everyone agrees with that.

I do sympathize with the point that if candidate A's writing sample is better than B's, but B has more conferences, A would still be more likely to get admitted. 

 

[Bryterlayter]

When I hear about conferences not being a good thing, it's mostly when students are embarrassed of their work later or they didn't think it through far enough and can be embarrassed by the questions and comments at a conference. But I'm mostly talking about graduate student conferences, because I've never heard of graduate students being accepted to full, professional conferences (unless they specifically said they would be looking for a few graduate students to give presentations). Nearly everyone I know didn't give any presentations or papers and I was told I shouldn't worry about it until I'm 2+ years into my Phd or later.