Getting MSc before PhD applications in Canada

[Piagetsky]

The question kind of says it all.  I'm doing an MSc right now to expand my research experience.  I've seen mixed reviews on whether doing a master's first helps or hurts, but they were all from US schools.  Anyone have any information specific to Canadian schools?

[Seaz]

I am personally not a graduate student (applying this year), but I am not sure why completing a masters would hinder you from a PhD... I am applying to some universities that have a PhD stream from undergraduate, but I am also applying to some universities that have completely separate applications for MSc and PhD. Are you concerned about something in particular?

[Piagetsky]

46 minutes ago, Seaz said:

I am personally not a graduate student (applying this year), but I am not sure why completing a masters would hinder you from a PhD... I am applying to some universities that have a PhD stream from undergraduate, but I am also applying to some universities that have completely separate applications for MSc and PhD. Are you concerned about something in particular?

Well, the MSc I'm doing is clinical, not developmental.  I understand that I may have to re-do at least part of the MA if I want to apply to, say, OISE.  I have no problem with that.  But I get the feeling that some professors prefer people who are coming out of undergrad -- perhaps because they have no preconceived notions of how research should be done?  Not sure.  

[Emotix]

If your MSc is in a different area than your PhD, you may need to include a section in your personal statement as to why you're changing gears, or how you plan to use your experience and training from the MSc to achieve your goals with the PhD. Otherwise, depending how different the research areas are, you may raise some eyebrows.

I've always had the impression that unrelated research experience is still helpful, though relevant research experience is ideal. Some POIs might prefer students straight from undergrad for any number of reasons, but that's a matter of personal preference and I don't think you'll see an entire department adverse to those with advanced degrees. Nor do I think it'd be a deal breaker if you can explain a logical path from undergrad to your MSc, to the PhD.

That being said, I'd be a bit concerned to have a POI who wants me to do things their way, and only their way (to come in with no prior experience or preconceived notions). Research is often collaborative - most professors regularly publish with peers, conduct studies with other institutions, and have networks all over the world, so receiving training from another program or advisor shouldn't matter much to them. I think the concern about a masters degree might come from the fact that many are practitioner-focused, not research-focused (although there are plenty of research masters available), and it may show some uncertainty among candidates - did they do the MS first because they weren't sure about research? Or they didn't perform well in undergrad? Or are they prolonging their education for some other reason? Of course, there are perfectly valid reasons for pursuing a masters first; but generally, if you want a PhD, it makes more sense to go directly into the PhD. If you tried for the PhD and found that you needed to strengthen your profile, then a masters degree seems appropriate.

[Clinpsyc01]

I think the biggest thing with getting a master's before a PhD in Canada is that when you apply to clinical programs, you will still most likely have to apply to the MA/MSc rather than the PhD. It seems that although a lot of schools do accept PhD applications, it's very unlikely that they'll actually accept external PhD applicants. You seem to be aware of that, though. 

I've also gotten the impression that some programs prefer students straight from undergrad, but even at these programs there seem to be students that have taken many years off after undergrad or who did masters programs. Overall, I don't think it's something you need to worry about. There may be some POIs looking for impressionable undergrads who they can mold to their liking, but those probably aren't people you'd want to work with anyway.