Dropping out of Honors

[MathToEconomics]

I posted recently about an extremely difficult personal situation.

I am in Honors Math with a final semester left, however I want to drop back to specialization. I honestly do not think I finish my last Honors course for the semester at this time. All I have left specific to my Honors degree grad level course and I just know that I won't have the time to put in the work needed to pull out.

This means since my application was submitted, I will need to contact all the schools I applied to with an update on my degree so I am not misrepresenting facts. However, I am concerned this will completely pull me out of the running. Other than my last Honors specific course, I have done everything in my Honors degree...but I am honestly just emotionally broken right now and don't think I can pull through. I don't want to miss this time with this person and I also want to spend this timing getting myself back. I am worried I am making the worst mistake in my life (and was strongly advised against dropping Honors), but I truly just don't think I have it in me to continue right now. I am not sure if this makes me weak  Anyone have a similar situation? Or got into grad school without an Honors degree?

Edited March 16, 2017 by TakeruK
removed some personal information

[rising_star]

If you need to drop out of Honors, do that. That doesn't make you weak. It means that you're knowing and putting yourself first, which is important and an invaluable life skill. But, I'm confused about why you'd go back and update all of your applications...

[MathToEconomics]

6 minutes ago, rising_star said:

If you need to drop out of Honors, do that. That doesn't make you weak. It means that you're knowing and putting yourself first, which is important and an invaluable life skill. But, I'm confused about why you'd go back and update all of your applications...

I am worried that if I don't update them they would disqualify me for misrepresentation since when I applied I said I was graduating with an Honors Math degree even though I obviously didn't expect this to happen when I applied.

Edited January 18, 2017 by MathToEconomics

[rising_star]

7 minutes ago, MathToEconomics said:

I am worried that if I don't update them they would disqualify me for misrepresentation since when I applied I said I was graduating with an Honors Math degree even though I obviously didn't expect this to happen when I applied.

How is it a misrepresentation if it was accurate at the time you applied? At the time, you were intending to graduate with an Honors Math degree, right? So there's nothing false about your application if you submitted it December 1 or even Jan 1 with that information.

[MathToEconomics]

19 minutes ago, rising_star said:

How is it a misrepresentation if it was accurate at the time you applied? At the time, you were intending to graduate with an Honors Math degree, right? So there's nothing false about your application if you submitted it December 1 or even Jan 1 with that information.

So you do not think I need to email each school giving them an update on my application and that I am not graduating with an Honors degree? Everything had been submitted way before I made this decision. It was just an accumulation of so many overwhelming events that kind of sprung this decision upon me in this last week. I just don't want to get an offer and they see my transcripts and are like why aren't you getting an Honors degree anymore. I am worried not saying anything comes off as a cop out or like I am hiding something....though at the same time I am worried they will throw my application out without this extra title even though the difference is truly only one class.  

[GreenEyedTrombonist]

I don't think it needs to be a problem. You've applied to 5 schools and haven't heard back from any of them yet. Depending on how many accept you, you might consider sharing the fact that you've had circumstances outside your control that have resulted in you not taking one class and, therefore, not graduating with honors but with a different designation. However, I'd only share this if you are really torn up about it, they admit you contingent on you graduating with the degree you said you would, or they bring it up. 

[TakeruK]

Are you applying to Canadian programs? I am not sure about Economics, but in Physics, there are some graduate programs in Canada that specifically require an Honours degree to enter (i.e. a major or specialization degree is not enough or would require special justification to qualify for graduate studies). So, I think you really only have to worry about any programs with this specific requirement.

However, that said, the requirement isn't really about the "Honours" annotation. Instead, in Physics, it's the advanced classes and honours thesis requirements that graduate schools want to see. So if the only requirement you won't meet is a single class, it should not be a big deal in the end. I think this is something you only need to bring up after you receive admission decisions.

Only you can make the best decision for yourself. I just want to suggest another solution that is a compromise between dropping the class and losing time for yourself and your family member. What's the minimum grade required to pass this grad level class and still graduate with an Honours degree? Is it possible to just do the bare minimum to get a pass in the class and still get the time you need for yourself and your family?

Note: I don't mean this post as an discouragement from dropping the class. Again, only you know what's best for you and if you need to drop this class, you should do it. I am just presenting two alternative perspectives to add to the good advice you already received from others here.

[MathToEconomics]

On 1/18/2017 at 9:07 AM, TakeruK said:

Are you applying to Canadian programs? I am not sure about Economics, but in Physics, there are some graduate programs in Canada that specifically require an Honours degree to enter (i.e. a major or specialization degree is not enough or would require special justification to qualify for graduate studies). So, I think you really only have to worry about any programs with this specific requirement.

I am applying to schools in Canada. One I did need an Honors degree. Honestly, that one was a long shot so I am kind of just whatever about that now. The other schools do not specify at all in that regard.

I honestly don't think I have it in me to continue right now....I am just so beat up and exhausted. My second concern is, lets say I continue and I get the minimal pass. One of the two master's programs is only 1 year so that means when I apply to PhD next year they will be looking at my undergraduate marks. My GPA so far is >3.9, so it is high. However, some schools I applied to specify that the GPA in the final two years needs to be at least an A- so a minimal pass could disqualify me in that regard

Edited March 17, 2017 by TakeruK
removed some personal details

[TakeruK]

6 hours ago, MathToEconomics said:

I honestly don't think I have it in me to continue right now....I am just so beat up and exhausted. My second concern is, lets say I continue and I get the minimal pass. One of the two master's programs is only 1 year so that means when I apply to PhD next year they will be looking at my undergraduate marks. My GPA so far is a 3.96, so it is high. However, some schools I applied to specify that the GPA in the final two years needs to be at least an A- so a minimal pass could disqualify me in that regard

I think it sounds like you feel that the best choice for you is to drop the class and the notation on the degree, and I don't think anyone should fault you for that. In addition, for your situation, the schools may choose to waive the requirement for you given that you have fulfilled most of the honours requirements already.

For the GPA issue, the last two years would be 20 courses, so one course out of 20 is not a big impact on your GPA. Assuming you take 5 courses per semester, this means you have approximately 15 courses with a 3.96 average. If you get 1.0 grade points for the minimal pass, at most you'll drop is down to like 3.81, well above an A-. Doing poorly on one course won't be ideal, especially for things like applying to scholarships while in grad school, but it's just one course. 

The reason why I suggest this is:
- If a school only wants to accept you with an Honours degree (i.e. some weird reason they can't waive it), it's better to have an Honours degree with a 3.8 GPA than a specialization degree with 3.9 GPA.
- If you decide to not follow the graduate school path, your GPA won't really matter anyways. People will only see the degree name and the "Honours" tag may carry more value. 

I don't think these reasons by themselves would be enough to convince me to change my mind though, if I were in your shoes. Again, just providing thoughts (which I hope are helpful). Do what you feel is the best thing for you

[MathToEconomics]

On 1/17/2017 at 10:40 PM, GreenEyedTrombonist said:

I don't think it needs to be a problem. You've applied to 5 schools and haven't heard back from any of them yet. Depending on how many accept you, you might consider sharing the fact that you've had circumstances outside your control that have resulted in you not taking one class and, therefore, not graduating with honors but with a different designation. However, I'd only share this if you are really torn up about it, they admit you contingent on you graduating with the degree you said you would, or they bring it up. 

 

On 1/17/2017 at 9:52 PM, rising_star said:

How is it a misrepresentation if it was accurate at the time you applied? At the time, you were intending to graduate with an Honors Math degree, right? So there's nothing false about your application if you submitted it December 1 or even Jan 1 with that information.

Well...I had agreed with both you guys and thought it was to rest till my school emailed me and is "strongly encouraging" me to send an email to every school I applied to as they might "rescind the offer" with dropping out the program. Not sure if this is to be taken very seriously and I should follow through or if it is more a last ditch effort to keep me in the program. 

[rising_star]

15 hours ago, MathToEconomics said:

 

Well...I had agreed with both you guys and thought it was to rest till my school emailed me and is "strongly encouraging" me to send an email to every school I applied to as they might "rescind the offer" with dropping out the program. Not sure if this is to be taken very seriously and I should follow through or if it is more a last ditch effort to keep me in the program. 

I think your best bet would be to call programs and ask. That way you aren't attaching your name to the inquiry but can also get the information you need. I have no idea if schools would rescind your admission over that but, it seems odd to me that anyone would. (The only somewhat similar example I have is that I changed the graduation date for my MA from May to August, in order to be able to TA in the summer and earn some income. No one cared when I got to my PhD program because all they needed was a final transcript showing that I'd graduated. YMMV obviously.)

[TakeruK]

1 hour ago, rising_star said:

I think your best bet would be to call programs and ask. That way you aren't attaching your name to the inquiry but can also get the information you need. I have no idea if schools would rescind your admission over that but, it seems odd to me that anyone would. (The only somewhat similar example I have is that I changed the graduation date for my MA from May to August, in order to be able to TA in the summer and earn some income. No one cared when I got to my PhD program because all they needed was a final transcript showing that I'd graduated. YMMV obviously.)

I think that the Canadian "Honours" degree program and the US "Honours" degree may have different meanings (and I know it's different in other parts of the world too). In Canada, the Honours degree requirements are usually not just additional coursework (typically 10% more courses than a Major/Specialization degree) but also different courses. So, it would be something on the level of a (small) change in major.  (i.e. it's a bigger change than the date of the degree or a small change in GPA).

However, I think most grad schools care more about the content of the degree than the title of the degree, so having everything you need for an Honours degree less one course is more okay than applying with the wrong degree altogether! The schools that officially list an Honours degree as a pre-req for their grad programs would likely have to petition for you to get this requirement waived, but this is a common (although formal sounding) process so it shouldn't be a huge deal.

That said, the best thing to do is to call the schools you are applying to. You'll find out how important the requirement really is and whether they care about that one missing course and the change in your degree notation. My advice is also based on the Physics programs, which can have very different policies than Economics.