Home Field Advantage?

[ForeverJung]

I have heard about a few folks getting invited to interview weekends at their undergrad university. Theoretically, if their POI is someone they have done research with and the research fit is good, would you anticipate they have an edge on other applications? To an extent I can see there being an advantage, but at the same time you'd think the POI would find other applications more interesting as they are just meeting that person during the interview. What are you thoughts? 

[C is for Caps Locks]

I think it depends on the POI/program, but I know that at my undergrad institution (R1) it's basically considered a massive taboo to apply to the program.

Not because professors don't like you or don't think you are great, but because they (and the department) want you to go elsewhere and expand your network/skills (so here I would generally say it would actually hurt you if you completed your undergrad here and then applied, it does happen on occasion, but it's not very common based on the current grad school cohort).

I have however heard of there being a home-field advantage in terms of region, so for example a Midwest program can be a bit wary of East/West coast applicants and vice versa (the logic I've heard professors/grad students throw around is that they sometimes worry if a person will be able to adjust to a vastly different place). I do think this can be countered though by a narrative or explanations of why you think you can survive the move/change (I for example focused on the fact that every level of education I've completed has been in a different state or even country). The regional advantage also based on anecdotal evidence seems to apply a bit more for med school/residencies (because they really don't want you to move after you've finally become a doctor).

Edited February 7, 2017 by C is for Caps Locks

[OptimiscallyAnxious]

I was discouraged from applying to graduate programs at my undergraduate institution (it's a R1 institution). The same professors I was conducting research with as an undergraduate, encouraged me to apply elsewhere in order to challenge myself and to create new social/academic connections. If one did apply, there was an unwritten rule against applying to have one of your LOR writers be your primary graduate advisor. 

Edited February 7, 2017 by OptimiscallyAnxious

[JacobW83]

Like the above posters, my University also preferred that students branch out for Grad work. I have, however, heard of certain programs/universities that do give extra consideration to their own undergrads. 

[tomorrowforgotten]

1 hour ago, ForeverJung said:

I have heard about a few folks getting invited to interview weekends at their undergrad university. Theoretically, if their POI is someone they have done research with and the research fit is good, would you anticipate they have an edge on other applications? To an extent I can see there being an advantage, but at the same time you'd think the POI would find other applications more interesting as they are just meeting that person during the interview. What are you thoughts? 

If you're already working in the lab, producing good work, and fit in with the lab culture. Then yeah, you would certainly have an advantage. The professor would know you and you would be "less of a risk" than a new student. Why take a chance when you already have a perfectly good student who already knows their way around? 

Alternatively, if you're a terrible undergrad or have a maladaptive personality, then I imagine you would be at a disadvantage. After all, you wouldn't be able to hide it or cover it up in an interview since the professor already knows you. 

Basically, if you're a strong student I imagine it will work in your favor. If you're a bad student, then it would prObably work against you. 

[hopefulpsych2017]

I'd be curious to know if this differs for research coordinators/post-bac RAs! Would a post-bac RA applying to be a graduate student in the same lab (not at the same university as their undergrad) have an advantage over other applicants, or would PIs also encourage them to go elsewhere?

[C is for Caps Locks]

I don't know but everyone I've worked with or met who was a post-bac RA/lab manager ended up somewhere else.

Again, I'm sure it depends on POI, but even when you work on niche topics, in my experience professors prefer you branch out (my mentors were for example happy to recommend colleagues working on similar research that they knew personally who they felt would be good grad advisers for me). Basically, it's the "networking" aspect of your graduate application, if a professor you work with writes a strong letter of recommendation for you when you are applying to someone that knows/respects them then it's a pretty good indication that you are a good researcher to the "new" professor.

The only time I've heard or been advised that applying to the same program/POI is a good idea is if you the topic is literally so niche that no one else is working on it (but even that seems pretty rare to me). There's just not a lot of benefit to staying in the same program as far as I can tell (even if you say get your undergraduate at Stanford, it's not like there aren't other great programs to attend).

Edited February 7, 2017 by C is for Caps Locks

[avflinsch]

I am in a completely different field, but my POI said that he prefers applicants that did their undergrad/masters at the same school as they were a 'known quantity', which made me hopeful as I did/am doing both. 

Either way, I got unofficial notification today that I was admitted to the PhD program.

 

[ForeverJung]

I can recall a candidate relocating to my campus to volunteer in a research lab. 2 months later it is announced at lab that she was accepted into the program at this very campus! Is this common? 

[8BitJourney]

1 hour ago, ForeverJung said:

I can recall a candidate relocating to my campus to volunteer in a research lab. 2 months later it is announced at lab that she was accepted into the program at this very campus! Is this common? 

Wait do you mean admitted without applying? Because if so that's extremely unlikely. But if they relocated and applied it could show a lot of dedication to that specific program and be looked upon favourably.

[ForeverJung]

27 minutes ago, 8BitJourney said:

Wait do you mean admitted without applying? Because if so that's extremely unlikely. But if they relocated and applied it could show a lot of dedication to that specific program and be looked upon favourably.

No, they applied, asked the POI if they could volunteer in the lab, started to volunteer, eventually got accepted by the same POI and joined the lab as a grad student. Sorry I wasn't very clear before. 

[psychpride9]

This is a super interesting thread. I just applied to a lab at a school against a candidate who 1) went to that school for undergrad and 2) worked as an RA for that particular lab for two years after undergrad and as a result got two-three pubs out of it, whereas I 1) didn't go that school for undergrad and 2) don't have any pubs. Hoping that I still have a shot - I don't think they'd invite someone to interview if they didn't have a chance, right?

[thirdfromthesun]

7 hours ago, ForeverJung said:

I have heard about a few folks getting invited to interview weekends at their undergrad university. Theoretically, if their POI is someone they have done research with and the research fit is good, would you anticipate they have an edge on other applications? To an extent I can see there being an advantage, but at the same time you'd think the POI would find other applications more interesting as they are just meeting that person during the interview. What are you thoughts? 

I am a few years out of undergrad (R1 institution) and have since worked in labs at three other universities. Even with those external experiences, my undergrad adviser told me that it would be a waste of time and money to apply to my undergrad institution, as they strictly do not take graduates (I am devastated, because they hired someone new this year with whom my research matches perfectly).

I applied in spite of that advice, and was not invited to recruitment day, as expected. So, to answer your question, I think there exists a home field DISadvantage. I hope schools are able to move beyond this myopic policy in the future-- one of course does not want to become a replicate of their undergraduate mentor, but disinviting all alumni from an entire program seems misguided. 

[neur0cat]

2 hours ago, byn said:

 In that cycle, the POI still invited people to interview for her lab, but he was the only one selected for the laboratory. I have a feeling that some POIs will put those who apply for their labs "at the top of their application piles" but still will go through the "formal process" of reviewing applications for their lab, doing interviews, etc., especially to not have concerns raised over unfair advantage by adcoms (even if they have their own biases/preferences in favor of someone who works in their lab/they'd already accept). In my opinion, it seems a little unfair if other applicants aren't aware they are competing against another candidate(s) who may have a slight advantage over them in the process..

Experienced this during one of my interviews - there was another applicant who had been working at the lab for some time prior to formally applying. I was somewhat disconcerted upon realizing this but did my best anyway. I've accepted that there are factors you simply can't control and it's ultimately the POI's choice in deciding. I really hope my POI did not go into the process with the mentality of already knowing whom to accept and inviting applicants as a formality just to ensure "unbiasedness".

[ForeverJung]

Could an additional factor be the residency of the candidate? IE: if they are in state their tuition would be less for the grad school to cover? I feel this would be a long shot in terms of influence but if a University is having budget issues (like a lot are at this moment) could it play a factor? Thank you everyone for your feedback, I feel this has provided an interesting dialogue with different perspectives which is greatly appreciated. 

[AP]

I found it strange when one of the admitted students to our program was an undergrad I had shared a seminar with. But he was accepted into a caucus within my department which is relatively new and (good) applications are scarce. I think this is more the exception than the rule, and I agree with the above that in general universities encourage you to expand your horizon. 

[psychpride9]

Just wanted to update and say that I was accepted over another applicant who had already worked with my POI and had significantly more experience than me (they published with my POI, were close with her, etc.) So it is definitely possible if you interview well and are confident. 

[psyched64]

33 minutes ago, psychpride9 said:

Just wanted to update and say that I was accepted over another applicant who had already worked with my POI and had significantly more experience than me (they published with my POI, were close with her, etc.) So it is definitely possible if you interview well and are confident. 

Congratulations @psychpride9! That's good to hear because something similar happened to me at one of my interviews. It's nice to see there's hope.

[That Research Lady]

On Tuesday, February 07, 2017 at 9:56 PM, thirdfromthesun said:

I am a few years out of undergrad (R1 institution) and have since worked in labs at three other universities. Even with those external experiences, my undergrad adviser told me that it would be a waste of time and money to apply to my undergrad institution, as they strictly do not take graduates (I am devastated, because they hired someone new this year with whom my research matches perfectly).

I applied in spite of that advice, and was not invited to recruitment day, as expected. So, to answer your question, I think there exists a home field DISadvantage. I hope schools are able to move beyond this myopic policy in the future-- one of course does not want to become a replicate of their undergraduate mentor, but disinviting all alumni from an entire program seems misguided. 

So the EXACT same thing happened to me this round but I got an interview because the POI was new. I guess it depends on the POI and the institution.

[C is for Caps Locks]

Another update, regarding the home field advantage, got accepted at U of Toronto with a POI who also interviewed people from their own lab and the department (I'm also an international student, which seems even worse in Canada), so I wouldn't worry too much about it if you run into people from the program you are interviewing at.

[thirdfromthesun]

20 hours ago, That Research Lady said:

So the EXACT same thing happened to me this round but I got an interview because the POI was new. I guess it depends on the POI and the institution.

That is wonderful news-- congratulations on your success! Wish the department at my alma mater could be as flexible.