Being overqualified for clinical work?

[Adelaide9216]

Hello,

I have a question for you.

I am currently a final year undergraduate student in social work. I live in Quebec, so I had the opportunity to do a counselling program in CEGEP (the step prior to university in this province). I’ve worked mostly with women who have experienced trauma and violence both professionally and on a volunteer basis.

I have applied to start research based MSW next fall. My career goals are to teach and do research in social work. I also want to be an advocate for women who have experienced trauma and violence with a feminist perspective and work on policies that affect immigrants, refugees and racialized women here in Quebec/Canada.

 

I am already starting to think ahead and am considering doing a PhD. However, I’ve been told that if I do a PhD right away after my MSW, I will probably be overqualified for clinical jobs. I need to do clinical work as a social worker for 5 years full-time to be eligible to teach in social work in most places. I am turning 25 this year. I am passionate about what I want to study, however, I do not want to send my entire life in school. I have so many projects I want to get involved in and I need to have the proper education for it.

 

Do you guys have a take on this? Am I shooting myself in the foot if I do a PhD right after a MSW ? 

[ashny]

8 hours ago, Adelaide9216 said:

 

Hello,

 

I have a question for you.

 

I am currently a final year undergraduate student in social work. I live in Quebec, so I had the opportunity to do a counselling program in CEGEP (the step prior to university in this province). I’ve worked mostly with women who have experienced trauma and violence both professionally and on a volunteer basis.

 

I have applied to start research based MSW next fall. My career goals are to teach and do research in social work. I also want to be an advocate for women who have experienced trauma and violence with a feminist perspective and work on policies that affect immigrants, refugees and racialized women here in Quebec/Canada.

 

 

 

I am already starting to think ahead and am considering doing a PhD. However, I’ve been told that if I do a PhD right away after my MSW, I will probably be overqualified for clinical jobs. I need to do clinical work as a social worker for 5 years full-time to be eligible to teach in social work in most places. I am turning 25 this year. I am passionate about what I want to study, however, I do not want to send my entire life in school. I have so many projects I want to get involved in and I need to have the proper education for it.

 

 

 

Do you guys have a take on this? Am I shooting myself in the foot if I do a PhD right after a MSW ? 

 

 

Just an idea - if it's possible to do a the PHD part time  while doing clinical work in the field so you get the best of both worlds?

[green_dots21]

I would look into MSW/PhD programs since you will still do field placements to complete the MSW and you will also focus on your research as a doctoral student. From what I understand, doctoral coursework is 2 or 3 years, and you'll spend an additional year or two preparing and working on your dissertation. You could possibly do clinical work during that time. I don't know how easy it is to balance all of that, so it's only an idea to look into. 

Ashny's idea is good too. 

[olayak]

Many PhD programs won't even let you apply unless you have the MSW license. I agree with others, go for a combined MSW/PhD. That way you can get the best of both worlds.  

[Adelaide9216]

I am not planning on doing the PhD now, I want to do it after a MSW. What do you mean by combined MSW/PhD ? I don't think that combined program exists in my city.

[green_dots21]

On 2/10/2017 at 6:59 PM, Adelaide9216 said:

I am not planning on doing the PhD now, I want to do it after a MSW. What do you mean by combined MSW/PhD ? I don't think that combined program exists in my city.

Ah, okay. There are several programs in the US that allow doctoral students to earn their MSW at the same time. Those spots are limited and typically reserved for students with a MA in a related field or have extensive research experience. Applicants apply to both the MSW and PhD programs, get accepted by both and begin coursework in both.

[olayak]

Most PhD programs won't let you apply until you have several years of POST MSW experience.  Usually 2-3 years.  And they usually want you to have your master's level license.  So there's no rush.  Do the MSW, and apply to PhD programs as soon as you have finished your 2nd year of post-masters work.

For example: The CUNY Graduate Center PhD program requires:

• An M.S.W. or related Master's degree (i.e., Public Administration, Criminal Justice, Psychology, Education, etc.) from an accredited program
• A minimum of three years Post-Masters experience working in the human services

Edited February 12, 2017 by olayak

[olayak]

NYU's PhD program says " While post-MSW practice experience is not a requirement, at least three years of experience is recommended".

 

[olayak]

So, unless you are doing a joint MSW/PhD, the best plan of action is to do the MSW, do 2-3 yrs of work, then apply for the PhD.  This will make you a much stronger candidate even for the programs that don't require it.  There is a big difference between bachelor's level social work and master's level social work and they want to make sure that you can handle it.

Edited February 12, 2017 by olayak

[Adelaide9216]

I know there is no rush, but I'm already 24 years old, I am turning 25 this year. I would be 25 when I start the MSW. So, I would be quite old when I'll be done with the PhD. And in the meantime, I don't know if I'll have kids, a husband at that point. I know how difficult it can be to study with a young family, especially if you're unsure that you'll get support. 

[olayak]

I'm 40 and going back for a doctorate. I was 34 when I finished my MSW. There's no time limit. In fact, the schools prefer that you have more experience under your belt. For phd programs they prefer people with like 10 yrs of experience. Because then you really know the field. 24 is still very very young. Do the MSW, do the 3 yrs work experience and then go for the PhD. 

[olayak]

Most people who complete the PhD are in their 30s or 40s, very few are in their late 20s and those tend to be exceptional candidates.  The majority tend to be in their early 30s. 

And most phd programs have free tuition and free health insurance and also a stipend for the student, often around $30,000 per year so cost isn't an issue. Doctoral programs are full time so you won't also be able to work too. It's up to you how to work your school around a family, but that would happen with a regular job anyway. 

I know you don't want to hear it but you're actually very young and just starting your career. Either go for a combined MSW/PhD, if you want to accelerate the path, or do the MSW first and then the PhD. Or don't do the PhD at all. It's not necessary in this field. You can still teach and do research with the MSW. 

Edited February 13, 2017 by olayak

[Adelaide9216]

I have a question about what it really feels like to do a PhD.

 

I am considering the PhD at this step of my studies. Everybody around me is supportive of my project and says I have the profile to complete a PhD. I would even say that before I even begun to consider it, others were considering it for me saying things like « you’re so going to do a PhD, when I was not even sure of it myself and had just started university». But today, I saw a FB post that was a bit nerve-racking.

 

One of my acquaintances is doing a PhD in philosophical politics (political science). She is having her comprehensive exam soon. She says 75% of the people who do this exam fail. If they fail it a second time, they're kicked out of the doctorate program.

 

 She says her exams consists in answering two questions for 8 hours on all of the material that she covered in her readings and then, defend it for two hours in front of some sort of jury. And she is freaking out, saying it is the most out of her comfort zone thing that she has ever done. She even gets depressed and cries over this at times.

 

It is nerve racking because this girl has an exceptional path in her field at 25 years old. Very very exceptional path. And I am saying to myself "if she finds doing a PhD difficult, how will it be for me?" 

 

Is a PhD in social work as intense as what this girl is describing? 

[Adelaide9216]

On 13 février 2017 at 11:41 AM, olayak said:

Most people who complete the PhD are in their 30s or 40s, very few are in their late 20s and those tend to be exceptional candidates.  The majority tend to be in their early 30s. 

And most phd programs have free tuition and free health insurance and also a stipend for the student, often around $30,000 per year so cost isn't an issue. Doctoral programs are full time so you won't also be able to work too. It's up to you how to work your school around a family, but that would happen with a regular job anyway. 

I know you don't want to hear it but you're actually very young and just starting your career. Either go for a combined MSW/PhD, if you want to accelerate the path, or do the MSW first and then the PhD. Or don't do the PhD at all. It's not necessary in this field. You can still teach and do research with the MSW. 

I know I am really young and just starting my career, I never said the opposite. The reason why I am saying this is that who knows if I am going to have a family in a few years. It's going to be more difficult to do a PhD with kids and a family to take care of. While right now, it might be easier for me precisely because I am young and do not have those type of obligations.

 

PS : I live in a province in Canada where I have done a technical degree in a field related to social work. So I have a few years of work experience (excluding internships).

[Adelaide9216]

My goals is also to keep on intervening in the media about different types of social issues to raise awareness (I've already started doing it where I live). And I feel like if I want to be a good advocate and be credible, I need to get as much education as I can get. That's also one of the reasons why I am considering getting a PhD.

[olayak]

It's not necessary for you to get a phd to do the things you want to do. A phd is more for research and if you want to be a professor.  You don't NEED a phd to achieve your goals.  Technically, in social work, you don't even need it to do research or teach. Maybe you should think a little more about why you want the phd. It's a lot of time and work just to have "doctor" in front of your name in a field where it's not required. 

Edited February 17, 2017 by olayak

[qt_dnvr]

I'd look at people who do the work you want to do and look into their backgrounds- do they have Phds? Do they speak from work experience? What kind?

It's a very expensive and time consuming assumption (even if you're funded you're losing out on earning years/opportunity costs) for the goal's you're describing.

[Adelaide9216]

1 hour ago, olayak said:

It's not necessary for you to get a phd to do the things you want to do. A phd is more for research and if you want to be a professor.  You don't NEED a phd to achieve your goals.  Technically, in social work, you don't even need it to do research or teach. Maybe you should think a little more about why you want the phd. It's a lot of time and work just to have "doctor" in front of your name in a field where it's not required. 

I want to have as much knowledge as possible to be a solid advocate and to be credible to be in that position. Also, I genuinely want to learn more about this field and profession because I am passionate about it. 

[Adelaide9216]

2 hours ago, qt_dnvr said:

I'd look at people who do the work you want to do and look into their backgrounds- do they have Phds? Do they speak from work experience? What kind?

It's a very expensive and time consuming assumption (even if you're funded you're losing out on earning years/opportunity costs) for the goal's you're describing.

I see where you're coming from. I haven't taken my final decision yet, I want to do a MSW and then in two years, I'll re-evaluate depending on what I want to do. 

Edited February 17, 2017 by Adelaide9216

[Adelaide9216]

What would be a "good" goal to be wanting to pursue a PhD in social work? 

Edited February 17, 2017 by Adelaide9216

[olayak]

A PhD is primarily for people who want to do research. That's not being out in the world being an advocate. It's being in a room, analyzing data. Also, it's for people who want to be a full time professor, as a career. You can be an adjunct professor with a MSW.

You don't need a phd for credibility in this field. There are many highly successful social worker who have a LCSW.  Continuing education is required to maintain your license and there are tons of training opportunities, so you'll always be working towards becoming a more skilled practitioner. 

You don't need a phd to be more credible or to be a good advocate. You just need to work hard and be passionate about your work. You can even be the director of a program one day. You don't need a phd to run an agency. Or you can develop a new treatment modality. There's so much you can do with the LCSW. The PhD is for researcher and teachers, not advanced practitioners. Trust me, you wont survive a phd program if you're not into research. 

If you do want to go for a doctorate, I suggest you consider the DSW (doctor of social work).  It's a practical doctorate and seems to fit your interests more. It's for people who want to be advanced practitioners, administrators and policy makers. 

[Adelaide9216]

Thanks to everyone for your answers.