ashny

I am in a predicament. I have been accepted into a masters program in speech pathology abroad and was going to turn that down due to personal circumstances making it difficult to leave the country. However, I recently took the GRE and scored dismally which is making me re-evaluate my decision. I scored : Verbal: 156 Quant: 148 and AWA 4 My GPA is around 3.2 My fear is that if I turn down the school abroad, what if I don't get in here? I have read so many stories here about people who try for years or who don't get in and have to change their career choice. So although it would be very challenging for me to leave, I feel pressured to do it anyway. I could try to raise my GRE score and plan to re-test but time is of the essence as the masters program abroad starts in September. Any advice? What would you do?

Thanks Kslptobe. It's good to know that AshaEdfind's scores are not set in stone. Congratulations on your admission. It's a wonderful story and inspiration.

Your story certainly is inspirational, especially in the midst of all the posts talking about how competitive it is to get into grad school. Thanks for sharing. What I am wondering though is if AshaEdfind is accurate with their GPA/GRE stats. For Eastern Washington Uni, the stats are: GRE: Verbal reasoning: 154 Quantitative reasoning: 150 Analytical writing: 4.5 GPA: 3.32-4.0 Since your stats are lower, does that mean that one can get into grad school with a lower GRE and GPA listed or am I missing something? I have not yet taken the GRE and the GPA of one of my degrees is under 3.0 so I'm just wondering what my chances are (especially in light of your story) Thanks.

Thanks, it sounds like I need to take some CSD prerequisites/post bacc/2nd bachelors. It would be good to for me to take CSD courses anyway to raise my GPA from 3.4 to a higher GPA, especially considering how competitive it is to gain admission I got a good letter of recommendation from a lecturer whose classes I attended for a certification course a few years ago, but that was in a different field and the universities seem to want more recent relevant studies. Congratulations on your admission to the Masters program 'afternoonprogram'.

Hi, I have been doing some research on universities that offer graduate SLP programs and have found that some of them would like to see recent evidence of study. Since i completed my university education over 18 years ago, it is considered too long ago. What has been the experience of other older students on this board? Did you have to go back to studies again (e.g do second bachelors/pre-requisites etc) or was your degree from previous years/decades recognized? I understand that the GRE is usually required to provide evidence of your educational capabilities at this point in time but I am not sure if additional studies are generally required from universities. I do not have a CSD degree so have just been looking at universities that accept out of field applicants.

Congratulations! This is wonderful news. You are an inspiration.

mcamp thanks for sharing your blog link - it has very useful information.

Just an idea - if it's possible to do a the PHD part time while doing clinical work in the field so you get the best of both worlds?

Hi Jeff, this is really useful information. I have tried to access your website www.bartonj.com However, I cannot locate it. Is your website still accessible? Thanks.

I live in New York and have heard that the job market for social workers is saturated and it's difficult to get a job in the field. I have been considering applying to Masters programs with a long term view of earning the LCSW and going into private practice. Does anyone know what the job market is like, especially in NYC and what the prospects are to work with an LCSW. I am afraid of investing so many years in this profession and eventually finding out that I cannot work in it or cannot open a private practice/make any money in private practice. Thank you

Thanks everyone for the replies. It makes me feel better about the GRE. Already 40, congratulations on getting into the only school you applied to- that's inspirational. I have been using CliffNotes too and it's really helpful to lay the foundations of basic math before going on to Magoosh etc. I'm planning to give myself about a year too but since we are allowed 5 tries a year, I will probably test after a few months to see where my scores are at. Did you also have a good GPA/relevant voluntary work experience in the field of speech pathology?

Thank you so much. I'm going to be exploring leveling courses/pre-requisites soon so that helps.

Im applying to a different field but had one university say that provided the scores are met, they would welcome an older applicant as it adds to the diversity of students in their program

You are right .....I also spoke to a few schools who said that although they look at the overall score, the verbal is more important. Thank you

Hi, Sacred Heart strongly recommends that you complete the ASHA 'pre-requisites' before taking their pre-requisites course (see below) . I was curious if you took the ASHA subjects before the Sacred Heart online pre-requisites? Thank you. In order to qualify for application to Master’s programs in SLP, you must also have completed five, basic science courses (at least 3 credits each course) required by ASHA: A course in Biological Sciences (e.g., BI 111, BI 030) A course in Physical Sciences (e.g., PY 102 AO, CH 030) Statistics (e.g., MA 131) Two courses in Social/Behavioral Sciences (e.g., PS 110, PS 252 -required for SHU's graduate program) We strongly recommend that students enter the SLP-OPS having completed these courses. However, it is possible to take them while you are completing the SLP-OPS. Be sure to check the specific requirements of all graduate programs you are applying for.

Thank you, that gives me hope then as I have always been bad at math - even in high school. However, if this is the case, then it means that with enough practice, I can get a competitive score, even though my mind is bad at figuring out math problems? I have always done well academically as my other subjects pulled up my math scores and I used to get an overall "A". I am hoping that someone as bad at math as I was really can learn enough to get a competitive score. I don't know about the verbal section yet as I have not studied at but generally I am better at language than math. I think the most frustrating part is that I don't even need a knowledge of math for the grad program I am applying to. I have already proven myself as I have another Masters degree, significant experience, great scores through my academic career etc. I know I am competent enough to pass this grad program without a doubt, the problem is getting in.

Can the GRE seriously be learned? I mean, if everyone were given a subject to study and had to take the same test based on our study of the material, I have no problem with this as we are all competing on equal footing. However, in the case of the GRE older applicants are not competing on equal footing in my opinion and THAT is the issue here. Someone who is out of high school recently has had MANY years manipulating all kinds of maths problems. How could a 40 something applicant like me who has never seen many of the concepts tested (I am an immigrant AND older) and is starting to learn maths from scratch compete on equal footing with these younger applicants. I can't even remember what 7 times 12 is without checking it on my calculator or taking time to think about it.......in my younger days I knew my multiplication tables by heart. Now if the GRE is "learnable" as you say, then the situation is not as dire as it seems. However, my impression is that it is only learnable to the extent that you understand the theory behind the math. Please explain to me how someone who has been repeatedly doing math for years, practicing thousands of math questions and been taught in this country can compete with someone like me who doesn't remember maths which I studied over 25 years ago. I see you are an engineering student and I ask that you be objective as engineering students are good at and often experienced with Maths so it would be harder for you to understand this from my perspective. My impression is that you either have to be good at Math or not and that not all kinds of math problems can be learned. If I am wrong, then maybe I can take a few years off to study maths and compete with younger students but at my age it would not be worth spending years on learning math! If there are any older/non traditional applicants here, please give your opinion as you would understand how much of a hurdle the GRE is, more than anyone else. ETA: I see you are an older student DiscoTech. May I ask how old you are and how long it took you to study for the GRE. I mean if you are older and you can be so positive about it, maybe there is something I am overlooking that can make me feel the same and conquer it. Thank you

Agreed.

I agree that in the case of students applying for say a math grad program, there may be a correlation as maths skills are an 'inherent requirement' to succeed in the content of the math grad program. I guess that is why they have the GRE 'subject' tests. However, for non-math grad programs like the one I am applying for, these tests do more harm than good and shut candidates with good potential out. This board is full of younger applicants too who are academically bright, have high GPA's but are just not good at standardized tests. In these cases too there is no correlation between their ability and potential to succeed in their grad school courses, especially since the type of content tested in the GRE is often different from what they are required to do in the grad school courses they are applying for.

If you are in Indonesia, then why not apply to other countries that don't require the GRE as an admissions criteria for grad school? Of course you can still apply to USA if that's where you want to study, but could you have back up options in another country?

I think that may depend on what program you are applying for. With competitive programs (such as the Masters in Speech Pathology) which leads to professional registration as a speech pathologist, the GRE is very important. There are far too many applicants for the number of seats available so the GRE serves as a screening device to cut down the numbers. An older applicant's GRE scores are likely to get tossed out without the application even being viewed, even though that older applicant may be more competent than a younger applicant with a higher GRE score. Maybe in programs where say, 20 slots are available and somewhere around that number applied, your theory may hold true. The universities for the course I am applying to all specify the GRE range and if you are below that, forget it, it does not matter how bright you are, you will be out - there are hundreds of other younger applicants who will have scores in the range they are seeking. Furthermore, I am already very bitter right now because I have missed the deadlines for application because of the GRE. If I were in another country, say UK, I would have already enrolled on a program (be that an undergraduate or Masters as I already meet their requirements based on my academic record). At my age, in my 40's, missing a year AND not unfairly competing with younger applicants is a HUGE deal - it affects the rest of my life. Had I known this about the US, I would have never come here in the first place. Unfortunately, I did not know and can't leave because of family commitments. I am scared that I may have to settle for a career that is less than I am capable of because of this situation, yet if I were in another country, I am confident that I would not have to compromise as I have always been good at academics and have never had issues with my scores meeting admissions criteria. I see you got into some top universities George - congratulations. I am assuming you are a younger applicant.

I just came across this study about how standardized tests discriminate against older applicants. As a postgraduate in Psychology, I always knew that these tests discriminate as one of the fundamental principals of testing is that they should NOT test LEARNED knowledge but rather they should test an individuals POTENTIAL to succeed. For example, certain IQ test that make you fill in the missing pieces of puzzles are not based on prior learned knowledge but your skill in manipulating spatial information and therefore measure your potential. However tests like the GRE etc test LEARNED knowledge (specifically the maths) that younger students are 'fresh' at and have a lot more learned recent practice over MANY years, which is essential to getting competitive scores on the test. There is also no correlation between learning fancy vocabulary as required by the verbal section and one's success on graduate programs. Here is the article: (it is old but still valid) https://eric.ed.gov/?id=ED113007 Why do older students accept this discriminatory system? As an immigrant I was shocked when I discovered I had to learn high school maths all over again for the GRE (and a lot of it I have never seen in my life before). I have never experienced something so discriminatory in my life but I have no choice. I would leave the country if I could to study my Masters abroad but I am married here and have a family. I already have 3 degrees from abroad and have never heard about this system until I came to USA. I understand that older applicants also struggle with other tests like the MCAT etc as they are based on high school knowledge that they have not practiced in a long time and as a result a lot of older students are discouraged from applying. What surprises me is that Americans are so vocal and fight for their rights but when it comes to this testing, many people complain about it but are not challenging the ETS or the universities on this? Why is this the case? Do older students not realize that are being discriminated against and that these tests are not appropriate forms of measurement or do they just choose not to do anything about it?

Turning 43 years old this year - never expected to be in this situation.My biggest gripe is the GRE as I did not have to take this test when I studied in other countries. Going back and studying high school maths, much of which I never learnt in the first place in the country where I grew up is in my opinion unfair and discriminatory. There are studies out there that show that the GRE is not a suitable test for older applicants who tend to score worse than younger applicants (except for a study by the ETS which claims they are same.....of course what else would they say when they are making so much money out of it).

Thanks for the detail. Looking at your scores, I think you should get into an SLP program somewhere. Even your backup career sounds like a good pay. DH recently advised me to apply for social work as a backup option and applications are due soon. It feels like a huge compromise compared to SLP but I may just do it.

What is it about the university you chose that makes it unique and a good fit for you? The reason I ask this question is because I'm trying to get an idea how to select universities that are a good fit and include this in my SOP. Others here have mentioned choosing a professor you would like to work with based on your interests. I am not sure I understand that - when I studied in the UK, we did not get to choose our professors based on our interests. We simply had a list of subjects we had to complete for the degree program and had to work with every professor that walked in the door to teach us those subjects. Just trying to get a better idea of how things work here in the USA. Thanks.