PhD at average Grad School: What's even the point?

[AP]

On 2/18/2017 at 0:19 PM, Eshtah said:

I don't want to come across as arrogant or anything. I am just really wondering if it's worth attending an "average" Grad School if my plan is to go for a career in academia. I am an international student and have chosen to apply in the US because of my relationship but also because I hoped to improve my career chances by attending one of the great universities like Columbia, Princeton, Harvard etc. I have not heard back anything yet and I know that doesn't mean anything at this point (except at Columbia; they apparently have already sent out their admission letters and I didn't get one). I was lucky enough, however, to be accepted at one school already.

While I am waiting to hear back from other universities, I am trying to evaluate if I would really like to go there. It's not a perfect fit when it comes to expertise in my field but I will definitely learn something. I received a fellowship for the first year and would teach the rest of the time. 

What do you think? How does it work in the US? Will I only have a shot at an academic career if I have a PhD from one of the top ones or can I work my way up by kicking a...?

I would value any advice!

I see what you mean. As international students, we are not exposed to the internal academia dynamics and names as Americans are (rightfully so). My school is not in the Ivy League either. Yet, in the US it is a prestigious school and in my home country is utterly unknown. So I understand your concern but I back @akraticfanatic when they said "it might have a good program". I also understand your concerns for leaving home for something "average". If you are going to leave your culture, your friends, your job (if you had one), your family, it is might as well be something good. So, let me say that first: I complete understand what you feel.

On 2/18/2017 at 0:25 PM, akraticfanatic said:

 A PhD is a PhD. 

Yeah, this is a no. Whether we want it or not, prestige does matter. I am not saying it is the only force ruling academic jobs placements, but a degree from Columbia is more eye-catching than from, say, my school. I insist, it is not the only element. There are others, and that means you can work we them. Let me give you an example:

I know of someone in an Ivy League program who refused a postdoc offered to her to take another year to finish her dissertation, despite her advisor said she didn't need to and recommended her for the postdoc. This was a postdoc that landed on her lap, and she refused it. I sat with this person on a party she said something on the lines of "I will go straight to a TT job because I have a degree from this Ivy League School". 

I have been a grad student long enough to know people from many schools. People like this exist in all schools. I have plenty of colleagues in Ivies and plenty in other schools better than mine but not Ivy. I know people in my program who would also respond like this girl. Bottom line: A PhD has to do with the program, the department, the school. But it also has to do with you, how you take those 5+ years and shape them to your convenience, squeezing everything out of them, taking every opportunity possible to adding a line in your CV. 

On 2/19/2017 at 7:00 PM, Eshtah said:

The problem really is to me that it is not so obvious at all which schools are the best. There are the Ivy league schools and then there are the others. Ivy league schools are the best. So far so good. But then quite a few Ivy league programs just don't have any faculty member working in my field. Whereas another universities do although they are not Ivy league.

Is it worth choosing the better fit and overlapping research interests over the name of a university and its prestige? 

If you were in my field and graduated from Harvard and applied for a job search in my department, who would write your LoR? Who will have advised your dissertation cogently? Who would have helped you make the list of books of your comps? Who would have taken you to a national conference and introduced you to the other big names in your field? [This is not a formula, I am just posing possible questions for you to weigh in when you make the decision].

Google the professors. See how much they have written. See who cited them. Look at their CVs: which grants have they gotten/served for? What journals have asked for their reviews? What talks were they invited to? 

Finally, I think the thread has pointed out to the same thing over and over again: don't be that person who only cares about the school's name. This is not the only thing that gets you jobs and, for the record, a degree from any Ivy does not guarantee that you will get one. Certainly prestige schools provide more chances because they have better funding for you to conduct and finish research, but they do not guarantee it.