Negotiating offers

[Caien]

I've seen a few people mention this in the last week or so, so I thought I'd just start a new thread to focus on offer negotiation.

What's the protocol for this? When I tell my schools that I have another offer on the table do I name the school? Do I come at it in a round about way like, Oh, cost of living is so high and I'm concerned about my quality of life... Should I have this sorted out before I visit or wait until afterward? Should I tell them I have other offers now or wait till I'm visiting campus?

I'm terrible at this sort of thing. I took the first job I was offered out of college and didn't negotiate my salary at all. When I asked for a raise after a year it was like pulling out my own toenails.

Edited March 4, 2017 by Caien

[Bumblebea]

First of all, I'd say that none of us here are probably equipped to answer this question. Please talk to your advisor before attempting to negotiate.

Okay, having given you that disclaimer, I would say that in order to negotiate successfully you absolutely must be transparent about the offers and figures you've received at other programs. You'll probably be asked to actually show evidence of these offers. That's because your ability to negotiate depends on your having some leverage in the form of a better offer from another school.

Here are some anecdotes about negotiating: 

-My friend got two offers; one school was within the top fifty and the other was slightly outside the top fifty. The slightly "lower ranked" program (in quotation marks because rankings are BS and these programs were about equal in quality) allowed her direct admission into the PhD program and a ridiculously high stipend. She was able to take that offer back to the slightly higher ranked program, which had admitted her only to the MA program, and get them to offer her direct PhD admission. Not sure if she was able to negotiate a higher stipend.

-Another friend got accepted to a program that would have allowed her to supplement her stipend with an additional appointment in the Writing Center. She took that back to her preferred program and got them to do the same thing.

-Another friend got an offer at Yale. He took that offer back to the public university where he was finishing his MA (and which had offered him admission to their PhD program) and got his home program to give him a massive stipend, time off from teaching, and several summers of funding. (I honestly though he should have just gone to Yale, but he really liked the program where he was currently attending.)

-I tried to negotiate a stipend at a grad program that put me on a wait-list for funding (and that had a reputation for not guaranteeing renewable funding to grad students). I had received a generous offer from another school at about equal rank. I took that offer back to "wait-list" program and asked when I might could expect an answer about funding "wait-list" and they basically said they didn't know, didn't care, and wished me luck at the other school.

 

So, my general and unscientific conclusion about all this (other than that I personally suck at negotiating) is that you have to have a BETTER offer elsewhere in order to negotiate successfully. BETTER can be defined in a few different ways--an offer at a program with a better reputation; an offer at a program that's giving you more money; or an offer at a program that's giving you funded summers/time away from teaching/more years of funding. You can't really do much without that leverage ... but, of course, it never hurts to try. And that's why you absolutely must talk to your advisor about how to go about this.

[Chburdick]

This topic is relevant to me, and I'm not currently in school, so I don't have an advisor to consult...

I have two serious offers. School A is top 20ish and more of a "powerhouse," particularly in theory. It is in an extremely expensive part of the country. The offer is competitive, but the stipend is not enough to live on comfortably. It fits in well with my interests, and I had a nice long conversation with my POI that made me think it might be the right place. School B is closer to the top 30 but still has a very good reputation, it is also in a much more affordable (read: colder) part of the country. At School B I received an amazing offer via an university-wide fellowship - summer support, "top-off" fellowship, and a guaranteed TA-ship. I have been encouraged by a professor at School A to submit any other competing offers to the DGS at School A, implying that they would be willing to match other offers.  I definitely have leverage because School B is giving me more money and would be a much more affordable place to live. HOWEVER, I haven't visited either place, and want to do so before making a final decision, even though I am leaning towards School A. Should I wait to visit before negotiating? Or should I go ahead and send my other offer to the DGS at School A to see what they can do?? AGHHH this is killing me and I totally realize it is embarrassment of riches. 

[ratanegra19]

33 minutes ago, Chburdick said:

. HOWEVER, I haven't visited either place, and want to do so before making a final decision, even though I am leaning towards School A. Should I wait to visit before negotiating? Or should I go ahead and send my other offer to the DGS at School A to see what they can do?? AGHHH this is killing me and I totally realize it is embarrassment of riches. 

I'm in a similar situation right now. I can't tell you exactly how to negotiate--department cultures are very different in this regard, and how much money they have to throw around varies widely regardless of quality. What I CAN tell you, however, is what my advisors told me: go and visit both before making a decision and/or negotiating. 

The thing is, no matter what the funding offer actually entails (assuming they've offered the full package), whether or not you gel with the cohort culture is key to both your success and happiness. This is the next 6-10 years of your life! A number of my professors tell me that when they were students, they were actually leaning toward other schools before their own visit. The way they were received, however, sealed the deal. No matter how "good" the school is, you really have to ask yourself whether or not your personality, research interests, and way of being fit in with what you see when you visit. True, they'll be rolling out the red carpet for you--but talking to other grad students usually helps you "read between the lines" on these matters.

Worse case scenario--getting in debt sucks, but taking out a couple thousand per semester in Stafford loans (assuming you don't have quite enough to live comfortably on) in the first couple of years (before you can apply for fellowships) is a much better idea than being thoroughly miserable in a place where the stipend goes further. That being said, sometimes negotiation indeed works--but why waste all that time and energy, as well as risking the disfavor of the DGS and the department, on negotiating for an offer you might not even end up accepting?

Edited March 4, 2017 by ratanegra19

[bhr]

So, here is where I depart from the crowd, and say that you don't need another offer to negotiate.

Once you've selected the program you want to attend (or your top choice, if all things are equal), you write the DGS/your contact some version of the following letter:

 

Dr. XYZ,

I am honored/thrilled/excited to have been accepted into your incoming cohort. I believe that YOUR PROGRAM NAME is a place where I can thrive over the coming years. In order to put myself in the best position to succeed at YOUR PROGRAM, I was hoping that you would offer the following:

1. Item you must have

2. Item you would really like.

3. Item you could live without easily.

(Brief explanation about why these things help).

If you are able to offer these thing, I am ready to commit to YOUR PROGRAM NAME, and start getting ready to move to TOWN.

Your Name

u

Some programs have the ability to negotiate, and some don't. No one is going to be offended unless it comes off that you are trying to leverage them to get a better offer elsewhere.

 

Some financial things to ask for: Tech funds (laptop, camera, etc), guaranteed summer funding, extra travel funding, bridge funding (between your current program and the PhD), dissertation completion fellowship.

Non-financial things: Guarantee of certain teaching assignments, Office/classroom choice. Affiliations. Conferences (A friend, for example, requested the ability to bid to host a niche conference, knowing that it would give her an opportunity to network with senior scholars).

[brontebitch]

On 3/6/2017 at 2:23 AM, bhr said:

 

So, here is where I depart from the crowd, and say that you don't need another offer to negotiate.

Once you've selected the program you want to attend (or your top choice, if all things are equal), you write the DGS/your contact some version of the following letter:

 

Just want to say thanks - I am definitely using this outline to negotiate more funding with one of my offers!

[bhr]

5 hours ago, natalielouise said:

Just want to say thanks - I am definitely using this outline to negotiate more funding with one of my offers!

Just be ready to commit if they say yes to all/most of it. The mistake people make is trying to pit two programs against each other, like these programs don't chat.

 

FWIW, I got about $25k in extra funding over four years by asking for a bunch of small things ($2500 a year extra, bridge funding, relocation, tech budget, extra travel, book budget), plus guaranteed summer funding for four years

[aob981]

What is the thinking on trying to get a more highly ranked school to increase its offer based on one the offer of a lower ranked school? I've been offered admission and a pretty good funding package by a top 20 R1 that's in an expensive city. A top 50 private school has offered me more. It would be ideal if the higher ranked school could match that but not sure if they would consider that being that they could be considered more prestigious.

[Sam7mie]

For my recent acceptance the program coordinator actually straight up asked me about other offers I had in order to lobby for more funding for me (the base stipend is basically too low to live on, you could do it... but not well). If your program tends to the low side of stipend (under 13/14K I would say) then they expect you to negotiate. What I've been told is treat this like a job offer--if you were applying to a job they usually ask you for what salary you are expecting or looking for at some point. 

[Silabus]

I'm feeling this way too. A&M has offered me a great deal but the idea of living in Texas again makes me groan. I'd like to go to Florida! But I'm waiting on their letter of funding. If it isn't up to A&M's deal then Florida State is not only lower ranked, a lesser fit, but they also offer less funding which means the more logical option is A&M. I feel like just leveling with them about it might be helpful. Like: Okay guys, A&M is offering me this, match it or beat it?

Advantages

FSU: Location

A&M: Funding, Faculty, Rank, Fit.

Obviously one is in the lead....

[Katara]

Is there any hope of negotiating when you get off the waitlist on April 15? Is it like, "be grateful, you weren't our first choice!" or otherwise more challenging for them to find additional funding so late in the game?