Pros and cons

[BKMD]

This strikes me as really weird advice. It's hard enough to get in to graduate programs, let alone get hired as faculty. Why would anyone give up a chance to earn a Ph.D. in a program they "really, really love" on the off chance that there MIGHT be a tenure track faculty position open there when they go on the market years later? And especially considering how much competition there will be to even get an interview for that hypothetical position. It just doesn't make sense.

I agree, this is weird. If you're given a great opportunity, you should take it. Also, a number of faculty I've looked at did their PhD at their current institution (or at least nearby institutions, e.g. Stanford/Berkeley), so that doesn't necessarily rule you out.

[tarski]

- and is the library beautiful?

Haha, definitely. The library would be my first stop on any visit, unless a grad student drags me somewhere.

[intextrovert]

Also, average # of pubs by advisors and their respective students.

I saw this and read just the first half of the sentence. I thought, "Number of pubs? There's someone I can get on board with!" I was already thinking of wine bars, martini lounges, etc. when I read the rest and realized you meant publications.

Haha, it's Mardi Gras week - you know where my head is.

[rising_star]

This strikes me as really weird advice. It's hard enough to get in to graduate programs, let alone get hired as faculty. Why would anyone give up a chance to earn a Ph.D. in a program they "really, really love" on the off chance that there MIGHT be a tenure track faculty position open there when they go on the market years later? And especially considering how much competition there will be to even get an interview for that hypothetical position. It just doesn't make sense.

I don't think it's crazy, probably because I did this. The school I absolutely love has a fabulous post-doc program that often leads to TT positions on that campus and I would love to live there. Seriously, love it. That was a factor in my decision not to go there, even though they offered me more money. (The other factor? A bigger name advisor at my current program, whose name and advice will likely enable me to secure that postdoc or another.)

[rogue]

I don't think it's crazy, probably because I did this. The school I absolutely love has a fabulous post-doc program that often leads to TT positions on that campus and I would love to live there.

Is that common--post-docs leading to TT positions? I didn't realize that. From what I've heard, it mostly seems like if you're not hired initially as TT, it's hard to become TT at that institution. Or maybe that just applies to adjuncts?

[dzk]

If you really, really love somewhere, head over heels, completely smitten - consider not doing a PhD there. It is very rare that someone will get a faculy position i nthe same place where they did the PhD, so if you have two options for grad school that are both very good, but one you are in love with in terms of location and other things that may last a while, go to the other one.

Others have said this is weird, but I'll go one better and say it's astoundingly stupid. First, it's very rare to get a faculty position at the institution of your choice regardless, and it's really left up to fate (~8 years from now, they may not even be posting for new hires in your field). Second, as far as institutional culture is concerned, what is best for a graduate student and a faculty member can be very different things.

Now, rising_star's case makes much more sense, but generally speaking, this is not good advice.

[katie katie katie]

Others have said this is weird, but I'll go one better and say it's astoundingly stupid. First, it's very rare to get a faculty position at the institution of your choice regardless, and it's really left up to fate (~8 years from now, they may not even be posting for new hires in your field). Second, as far as institutional culture is concerned, what is best for a graduate student and a faculty member can be very different things.

Now, rising_star's case makes much more sense, but generally speaking, this is not good advice.

Disclaimer: Although I posted this, I do NOT actually agree with it. But it was the most unique piece of advice I ever got on the subject - so I wanted to quote it here. I agree completely with dzk's two points in general, but I think it's a different way of looking at things that could be applicable in unique cases.

[harried]

This is exactly the topic I wanted to discuss. I am still waiting on two schools, but as it stands I am choosing between three.

School A: Terrible town. Admittedly terrible by graduate program director. But, the director was super complimentary regarding my work. I mean that beyond mere flattery--I mean excited to work with me. Offered one of the best packages all around (so far.)

School B: Town I can live in. And I am bringing my S.O. also and so terrible towns are a no go. Great program, but did not offer a stipend. This is not good for a private school with high tuition. Was ready to dismiss on this basis, but have begun receiving personal emails from SEVERAL professors in the program, expressing interest in my work. that is a really good sign for a program, no? But, still....the cost.

School C: Town I really really want to live in. Program has most esteemed faculty and one faculty member that is a dream fit. But, the program seems a little formal. Rigid almost. And this I am basing on the fact that no one has made personal contact. I received a letter with a complicated package. No email. No call. I'd love to justify moving here and getting what looks to be a great education, but I can't see that its the best fit. I'd love to be able to go visit, but its far and I can't afford it.

What to do???

they all have something I want. Secure package, great town, engaged faculty--but all components are separated! eek!

[rogue]

This is exactly the topic I wanted to discuss. I am still waiting on two schools, but as it stands I am choosing between three.

School A: Terrible town. Admittedly terrible by graduate program director. But, the director was super complimentary regarding my work. I mean that beyond mere flattery--I mean excited to work with me. Offered one of the best packages all around (so far.)

School B: Town I can live in. And I am bringing my S.O. also and so terrible towns are a no go. Great program, but did not offer a stipend. This is not good for a private school with high tuition. Was ready to dismiss on this basis, but have begun receiving personal emails from SEVERAL professors in the program, expressing interest in my work. that is a really good sign for a program, no? But, still....the cost.

School C: Town I really really want to live in. Program has most esteemed faculty and one faculty member that is a dream fit. But, the program seems a little formal. Rigid almost. And this I am basing on the fact that no one has made personal contact. I received a letter with a complicated package. No email. No call. I'd love to justify moving here and getting what looks to be a great education, but I can't see that its the best fit. I'd love to be able to go visit, but its far and I can't afford it.

What to do???

they all have something I want. Secure package, great town, engaged faculty--but all components are separated! eek!

What about school A's location is so terrible? Is it unsafe, or boring, or is the weather crappy? Is it something you can deal with for a few years in order to get your degree without accumulating a ridiculous debt load?

Everything I've ever heard/read says unequivocally NOT to go into debt for a humanities Ph.D. Just based on what you've said, I'd eliminate choice B based on the funding and the fact that you don't seem terribly excited about it.

Call choice C. Ask about the package, as well as other opportunities for funding (grants/fellowships/scholarships you can apply for, adjuncting, etc.). Don't form an impression of the department as rigid or formal simply based on the lack of contact. Get to know the program a little, even if you can't do it in person. Contact the profs you're interested in working with, and maybe ask the DGS to put you in touch with a student or two for the inside scoop on life in the department. Then make your decision.

Good luck!

[daimiasue]

Thanks....I need to get my spreadsheet together and hadn't considered some of the criteria listed. Keep 'em coming.