Moving Forward

[panic!atthepsychapps]

Hey all, just looking for opinions/thoughts here.  I'm still in the running for a PhD program, so not all hope is lost in that regard, but I need to start thinking about potential alternate paths.  Currently, I'm considering the possibility of entering a Master's program to get more research experience and to prove that I can make it in a graduate school type environment.

A bit about me:  overall GPA 3.7, psych GPA of 3.8.  GRE Qual 96th percentile and writing 99th percentile.  Quant isn't great, but isn't totally terrible, either (58th -- math test anxiety is very strong), but I got As in my statistics and research methodology courses.  3 1/2 years of research experience in both health/social as well as clinical labs.  I ran two of my own projects (sadly did not publish -- I regret that terribly) in addition to standard lab work.  10+ first author poster presentations at both regional and national levels, some teaching experience, and some clinical experience (9 months of volunteer work on a crisis helpline).  Strong LoR.  

My primary mistake (I think) was limiting myself geographically, which caused lab "fit" to be slightly less than perfect.  My age is also probably a factor -- I just turned 22, which now seems young compared to many of the people I met at interviews.  Funding also kind of messed me up one place, but there's nothing that can be done about that.  At any rate, it is looking more and more like I will need to try again.  It's disappointing, but one can only ever move forward, and now I need to know about the best path.

It's not really an option for me to become a lab coordinator / manager.  The city I live in does have a university but the psych program is very weak and I know they don't have positions like that available, especially not to individuals who did not graduate from there or know any of the professors.  I'm also not willing to move elsewhere to get a position like that.  I know that may be seen as a mark against me, but it just is what it is.  I either want to pursue more schooling or get a job for a year while I reapply.  As is, the jobs in my location with only an undergrad degree in psychology are not stellar, and I do not feel as though they would meaningfully improve my CV / likelihood to get into a program.  Thus, the only additional marks in my favor for the next application cycle would be my increased age and my much increased willingness to go further for a better fitting program.  

Thus, schooling seems like a good potential route.  I'm wondering, though, if you guys could provide any information about whether it really IS a good route.  I've received mixed feedback about applying to PhD programs with a Master's.  Some professors have implied to me that it is actually a small mark against you, but I'm not sure that's true, given the sheer volume of applicants I met at PhD interviews who had MAs and MSs.  Other professors have told me that it's fine to get a Master's before entering a PhD program.  So, which is true?  Could it improve my chances?

If it could improve my chances, what are some programs I should consider?  Counseling psych?  General psych?  Are there other, more specialized programs out there that I don't know about?  Endgame:  I would be applying primarily to clinical health psych PhD programs, and my dream career would (hopefully) fuse sexual health education and promotion with research and *perhaps* practice.  I'm open to any suggestions or advice you all can offer.  Thanks in advance, and I am sorry this post is kind of long!     

[LMGX]

Hey,

Regarding your question of whether or not having a MA/MS degree is advantageous, it really depends on the program! I know some programs view applicants with existing graduate degrees (in the same field) as a sign of commitment and ability to succeed. Others, however, may view it as a burden in that they may want students with a "fresh" blueprint (e.g. no pre-existing graduate school framework). Although I am not in your specific field of study, out of all the schools I applied to this cycle - it was pretty much a 50/50 split in terms of whether or not the committee viewed a MA/MS degree as a positive attribute. You will need to reach out to programs on an individual basis - most faculty members will answer in a relatively honest manner.

In terms of what may have held you back this cycle, it seems like your 58th percentile quant score may very well be it. Although not a terrible score per say, considering how competitive graduate programs in psychology have become over the past years, you should probably aim for at least an 80th percentile score. I know taking the GRE is awful, but it may be worthwhile for you to retake it with added emphasis on the quant section.

Edited April 3, 2017 by LMGX

[panic!atthepsychapps]

I appreciate the input!  It sounds like it might be a good idea to reach out to schools I would apply to afterwards and see what potential mentors think about an MA/MS.  

It's crossed my mind to retake the GRE, too...but I'm desperate to avoid it.  It's so expensive and I've already done it twice.  I was received reasonably well in terms of interviews (4 interviews out of 8 applications), and most places I applied to had average quant scores of around 65th percentile, with 85-90th qual and 80-85th writing (I think I/O programs put a higher emphasis on test scores and/or are more competitive).  I was hoping my great qual and writing scores would pull me into consideration, and it seems like they did at least half of the time, haha.  It probably wouldn't hurt, though.  I likely will, with some more studying thrown in...ugh.

[mutualist007]

Wouldn't it be nice if rejection letters could provide specific actionable feedback? Tell me what was lacking and I will work hard over the next year to change that. Thanks!

[eveline]

I second that it depends on the Masters program. From success stories of people I know who got into funded PhD programs, they went into an experimental psychology masters program. They focused their thesis project to something related to clinical psychology and published. Also, their masters were *funded*. Yes, they do exist! One such program is William & Mary. 

[Clinapp2017]

5 hours ago, panic!atthepsychapps said:

I appreciate the input!  It sounds like it might be a good idea to reach out to schools I would apply to afterwards and see what potential mentors think about an MA/MS.  

It's crossed my mind to retake the GRE, too...but I'm desperate to avoid it.  It's so expensive and I've already done it twice.  I was received reasonably well in terms of interviews (4 interviews out of 8 applications), and most places I applied to had average quant scores of around 65th percentile, with 85-90th qual and 80-85th writing (I think I/O programs put a higher emphasis on test scores and/or are more competitive).  I was hoping my great qual and writing scores would pull me into consideration, and it seems like they did at least half of the time, haha.  It probably wouldn't hurt, though.  I likely will, with some more studying thrown in...ugh.

Personally, I am not sure if potential mentors are going to be able to tell you what they think about a masters degree. First of all, schools want large applicant pools, so I seriously doubt anyone is going to say "oh yeah I hart people with masters degrees." Second, prospective mentors don't have the time nor ability to talk at length with prospective students. I seriously doubt whether some people would comment more than "wow, it sounds like you are qualified. I look forward to reviewing your app." I applied to 10 programs and interviewed at 7. I got offers from 4 of the programs (including my top choice - best fit). Prior to accepting (apart from the interview), I had virtually no correspondence with my PIs beyond asking about their availability to take a new student and their response. I'm also coming straight from undergrad, so maybe take this with a grain of salt. However, I work for the DCT of my institution, and we talk a lot about how little time he has to reply to prospective students, 99% of whom won't pan out to be actual students. 

[cortisol]

16 hours ago, eveline said:

I second that it depends on the Masters program. From success stories of people I know who got into funded PhD programs, they went into an experimental psychology masters program. They focused their thesis project to something related to clinical psychology and published. Also, their masters were *funded*. Yes, they do exist! One such program is William & Mary. 

Agree that it likely depends on the program. I've also heard that "clean-slate" preference thing too, but I've heard (so take with a grain of salt) that it applies for clinical training in that they wanna train you in their clinical method from scratch. I'd think that experimental programs, which are primarily research focused, would be advantageous, since it'd give you research experience (especially if starting a research project from conception to conclusion). I completed one before applying, but my undergrad GPA was garbage, so it was kinda necessary lol. Also, at a place I interviewed, the DCT said that most of their PhD students come in with a masters, which I thought was really interesting. 

I'm assuming if there's no lab manager position near you, there's also no research assistant jobs either? That'd be my initial recommendation since you have good stats otherwise, but if you can find a funded (or even partially funded) research masters program, that may be the best next step! Good luck!

[That Research Lady]

Honestly (to me), it sounds like the choice to stay local compromised your fit for labs and that could be the issue. My grades were not as strong as yours and I applied to some difficult schools for admittance but received offers, with the feedback that my interests were very well aligned with the lab's. It sounds like your application was strong enough to get you interviews at many of the schools you applied to (which is an accomplishment), so I'd reflect on what to strengthen during interviews as well. Or consider working out of state for only a year or two and then applying to local schools again. I did not want to relocate geographically either, but I live in an area where the programs are the most competitive in the nation and actually found that having interviews from reputable schools across the nation helped during an interview with a POI close to home. I understand that sometime relocating is not possible (which I often told my mentor) but the advice I received was, it's only 4 years (or 1-2 for an RA position) and then you can go anywhere for internship/postdoc/etc. 4 years goes by very quickly and if you are less than 5 hours away from home you will likely be able to return often. I know it isn't always that simple but I'd hate to see you gather more debt for a degree you may not need. I worked instead of getting a masters and the money/experience can be very helpful.

[wrighna]

Is there a med school or large hospital in your area? They might not be specifically psychology/psychiatry related, but research assistant or research coordinator positions pay fairly well and I was able to get one straight out of school with a BA in psych. The fact that you have YEARS of research experience would rank you above many applicants. I felt it was really good preparation for grad school, getting exposure to grant writing, IRB navigating, interfacing with participants, and working in a hospital setting.

Not sure if that is an option, given your geography, but wanted to throw that out there because I didn't even know those jobs were out there!