Share Your Story

[samman1994]

Hello everyone!

A couple days ago I decided to visit my old research lab, drop by and say hi and meet the new students. While I was there I overhead a discussion between a guy discussing how he was in honors and top of his class back in high school, to another lab member. The other lab member, a bit annoyed, replied that it was nothing special and everyone at the school was top of their class and was honors when they were younger. This bothered me a little bit, because there is an ideal that if you're in a top STEM field, you must be very smart and always have been successful or a genius etc. I of course didn't say anything there, didn't really want to expose my past to everyone, but I think it's important to know their statements are not true at all. 

First and foremost, I never really had difficulty with school when I was younger, in regards to understanding subjects, I was just lazy. Never put in the effort, never had good grades (both elementary, and middle school). High school is when I was introduced to drugs, women, and well all the beauties of life so to speak. I got heavily involved with weed, then as time progressed, acid, ecstasy, even some amphetamines. I never really liked the high of anything other than psychodelics however, so I primarily stuck with hallucinogens, but I did try basically everything I could get my hands on (curiosity killed the cat). My focus shifted away from school to drugs and women, to the extent I ditched almost my entire sophmore year, with the exception of the first few weeks and test days (I wanted to make sure I was still borderline passing high school). Also got into a lot of law problems due to dumb criminal activities (e.g. one day stealing meds from a pharmacy, another day grafitti, etc.). This went on until, for a compilation of reasons, my high school my junior year decided to expel me from the entire district (the decision went very high up, and they didn't want me in that entire region). So, no school for me! This of course only gave me wayyy more freedom to do the stupid shit I was already doing. The main crowd I hung around with were kids who were expelled from school or recently graduated homeless kids, so now I had even more time to hang out with them. Anyways, senior year I decided to enroll into another school (rather my parents did), As usual, I showed up for the first few weeks, and that's when I met a girl, and not gonna go into detail, but she pulled me out of that crowd. I dropped all the drugs except for weed, started showing up to school (because she was there), and started actually planning for my future (we ended up dating for 3+ years). I decided I wanted to go to college and get a degree in Chemistry. At the time, my GPA was a 2.2, so without an SAT I had absolutely no chance anywhere. I ended up enrolling for the SAT, barely got the minimum score I needed with my GPA to apply, and applied to one university only (stupid i know, but it was the only one I wanted to go to). I got in! Needless to say, old habits and techniques die hard, and my first 2 years didn't go really well. I broke up with my girl, got back into the old crowd again, and shit went down hill. This time however, I decided to pull myself out, I couldn't hang with the old crowd. My mentality had completely changed, and to me, their life no longer seemed pleasent or even tolerable, but a waste of time. I pulled myself out, and by my 4th year I ended up making myself one of the top students in my classes during the semester, and graduated with a BS in Chemistry. I am currently applying to PhD programs across the board to get into my desired programs (which I think I'll get into at least one of the schools). 

My point in this post is, there is an ideal that I saw throughout society and even among my peers, that people in good STEM programs (e.g. Ivy league schools, or the UC system, etc.), have always been the super smart and talented genius kid. While that is somewhat true from the people I met, I think it's important to note, it is not always true. People from all backgrounds, good and bad, go to these programs and institutions, and just because you made some bad decisions in high school doesn't mean you're future is effectively fucked (as people used to tell me). A few people in my old crowd are actually in the same boat, and are now in the process of getting their bachelors in their desired programs as well. Anyways, their conversation bothered me on a more personal deep down level because I thought to myself, well I didn't go to honors, and was never top of my class. Does that make me an idiot then? Everytime my peers discuss their past, it was always something along the lines of how great and successful their life has been, and I've never really shared mine because I didn't want them to think, wait we have a druggie loser kid who get kicked out of high school here? It might not change how my boss or others view me, but I want them to have the image that I've always been this great smart guy and on their level (especially now that i'm asking for LOR and maybe some connections from my PI). But it's semi-anonymous here, no one knows you, so I thought I'd share my story, and see if anyone wanted to share theres.

Edited August 24, 2017 by samman1994

[BunnyN]

I think the education system emphasizes too much on competition than collaboration. The "honor" means you have done somewhat better than your peers, not how much you have really achieved. To me it's more a fun game in teaching, nothing more nothing less.

It's much more healthy to concentrate on what you are interested in. Study xyz major if you like it, not to prove your superiority.

I have been an average student all my life, no cool story to share. But if I could change only one thing in my high school/college years, I would love to meet more girls.

When I was working for a multinational corporation, nobody even mentioned their past in high school. It's just too irrelevant for people of my age. Academia is a special case in professional world in that a person's academic records are highly correlated with his/her achievements.

[lemma]

This is an interesting exercise. I think that everyone has a valuable story to share, with challenges and obstacles they've faced in their personal life, irrespective of how typical or unusual their public story is. 

I probably fell more into the stereotype the OP was mentioning. I won my first national prize when I was ten, got my first university qualification as a high school sophomore, was successful across the board with undergraduate admissions and got reasonably good grades once I started. However, I have had my share of challenges, especially with a serious mental health diagnosis that leaves many people in long-term care or on disability. This is not something I discuss professionally, but has taken huge efforts to manage, entailed significant sacrifices from those who love me, and has reshaped my outlook. You would never know it from my resume though. 

[juilletmercredi]

This bothered me a little bit, because there is an ideal that if you're in a top STEM field, you must be very smart and always have been successful or a genius etc.

But that's not what she said. It is true that most of the people who tend to go to graduate school tend to have been smart kids who achieved near the top of their class at some point - because those are literally some of the qualifications for getting into graduate school. Furthermore, the point of her comment doesn't seem to have been to denigrate those who didn't get honors in high school. The point is that by the time you make it to grad school (or to college, frankly), nobody really cares about your honors from high school (or lack thereof) and bragging about it seems crass and annoying.

[samman1994]

On 10/20/2017 at 1:40 AM, juilletmercredi said:

 

 

But that's not what she said. It is true that most of the people who tend to go to graduate school tend to have been smart kids who achieved near the top of their class at some point - because those are literally some of the qualifications for getting into graduate school. Furthermore, the point of her comment doesn't seem to have been to denigrate those who didn't get honors in high school. The point is that by the time you make it to grad school (or to college, frankly), nobody really cares about your honors from high school (or lack thereof) and bragging about it seems crass and annoying.

No of course, don't get me wrong, I'm not implying she meant that. That's why I didn't confront her or them about it. I was simply stating the ideal is there, and her statement is a reminder to that ideal.  I have an issue with the Ideal itself, rather than her statement. 

[Eigen]

While in general, what you accomplish in life always matters.... I would say with academics it's a rolling clock. 

What you do in high school matters for getting into college, but I generally look askance at people who still have too many things from high school on graduate school applications/CVs. Some things (national merit, service awards, etc.) might still be on there, but it should be truly exceptional things that stay. 

Similarly, as you progress through graduate school, a lot of stuff from undergrad goes away- and should be replaced with newer things. Some items (papers, talks) never leave your CV, but many awards, honors, and involvement- definitely do. 

Post grad school I only have 2-3 things from undergrad and nothing from high school left on my CV, outside of conference presentations and publications. 

That said, I do agree with what the grad student said- by and large, people in top programs have been exceptional for a while, and it's nothing special to have done well in high school by the time you're graduating college. I talk to my students early in undergrad about this, and remind them that while they may have gotten straight As in high school, the same is true for the vast majority of their peers and that college is a different game.