m-ttl

I don't know what it's like in Canada, but funded MAs in the US are very competitive and there are plenty of older applicants who have work experience in the field wanting an MA to further their careers. Many do come straight out of UG. But it still is difficult to write applications and a thesis and do class work at the same time. Mostly it's just a lot of work and deadlines all at once.

Although I am obviously not a philosophy student I often read the other humanities forums. I don't blame any of you for being upset or annoyed. I don't know anything about philosophy, and therefore would not care to comment on applying to philosophy programs (with good reason)! Frankly, I'm surprised (and irritated) that people who are blatantly trolling the forum and other users are told time and time again to stop and nothing is done to keep them from continuing their behavior. Other people (besides Loric) have been given warnings for using abusive language, and continue to be rude and aggressive. Or in Loric's case, they are unhelpful and derailing at best or aggressively mean and insulting at worst. It's tiresome and not very helpful to watch multiple trolls insert their "knowledge" everywhere and upset other users. When does it get stopped? I understand "don't feed the troll" but I also think there should be some modicum of decorum and politeness here... trolling is pointless and an abuse of the forum's purpose.

I sent an email -- hopefully there will be some response. Unfortunately for me, I'm going to board a plane for five hours. And am about to depart the train -- searching for the phone number seems a bit perplexing on the site. (Everyone prefers email, nowadays). That said my 2nd required recommender just submitted, so I have the two I need... [EDIT] and all the auto-emails say everyone's out of office until the 6th. Hmm.

Oh I already emailed a personal (and polite) reminder as of yesterday (I've been traveling too). This was coming a little less than three weeks from the initial automated request. They still have tomorrow to submit, although I'll email today and see if this is really a firm deadline. All of my other materials are submitted, so really this is my only concern. I follow directions just fine -- professors? Well... who knows. The other two professors responded to my polite reminders very quickly (but they're still "in town" so to speak). If I have to remove an "extra" letter, I will, but it would be a shame to remove a recommendation I know will be very good. I'll email the school and see if the policy is concrete, I guess.

I've had one professor submit all of my recommendation letters, and another say she would work on them in the next few days, around two days ago (My first deadline is tomorrow). I'm quite certain she'll get everything in. That said, I have a third recommender who goes out of the country on Christmas break, and I know she took my materials with her. The 31st deadline only requires two recommenders, and was added after the original list was made. I only need two letters for the first school, but my second deadline was the 1st, so this is not really "Earlier". My question is this: If she doesn't submit by say, the 1st (a day late), should I email the Graduate School and ask if my application will be incomplete? I will probably have the two required recommendations by tomorrow, and can just ask to have hers removed. I'm not really a person who likes cutting it close with deadlines (I gave everyone all the information they needed a solid month in advance), but I'm not sure if I should worry about them being late by a day or two, especially when the deadlines are New Year's Eve and New Year's day respectively. Is there probably a bit of leeway there since it's a holiday and they're unlikely to sit down to consider applications' recommendation letters that day?

Absolutely not. I only have one school on my list with a possibility of not having full funding -- and that's an MA program. Every single professor I spoke to (including my recommenders), all insisted that I not enter any program that didn't have funding. It's a detriment to go into further into debt in my field. It's a detriment in most fields and to be honest, why would you want to? If you can afford it, it's up to you. I eliminated any school that wouldn't fund, or did not have a high chance of funding from my list because I can't afford it, and an acceptance without money would essentially be a rejection for me. I knew I would have to eliminate any UK programs when I looked at the costs and the chances of scholarships. But you must have felt you could still afford it somehow? Perhaps taking the year to apply to fellowships + funding would at least give you an opportunity to see if you can afford to go and/or apply to programs that would fund you. Your profile says you're in the US, so applying to US schools that would fund you would be more beneficial to your wallet.

Oops that should be 30 + 28 = 58 pages total. I can't do math very well, unsurprisingly. Setting aside November as a sort of Academic "nanowrimo" also can help. My other alternative suggestion is just: be Beyonce.

Well, for starters, have you written other papers that would be long enough or good be lengthened? I would aim for about 15-20 pages of straight essay. My sample is 28 pages including images and bibliography. (The highest limit I had was 30 pages, so ymmv). I was lucky and had already written a 34 page paper second semester Junior year, so I could have used that. I had also written two 8 page papers I could have expanded, but didn't. Instead, I took my summer to write a paper while doing a museum internship. I finished it at the beginning of Fall semester and gave it to professors to edit (it also doubled as credit for my internship grade). There's no reason why you couldn't write a paper over the summer and edit it in the fall. Summer: Writing sample draft, Create preliminary schools list, brainstorm SOPS, study for the GRE Late Summer: Begin contacting POIs (potentially take a GRE), draft your resume/CV Fall: Continue contacting POIS, edit your writing sample several times, finalize a list of schools, take the GRE, speak with recommenders October: Write out a list of schools, POIs, and deadlines. Prepare to have your recommendation letter materials a full month before the first deadline (My first deadline is the 31st, I gave my Recommenders a packet of info which included schools, desired studies, CV, transcripts, etc., on the 1st of December). Complete your statement rough drafts, begin rounds of edits. Edit your writing sample. This is essentially what I am doing/have done (with a lot of editing happening in November as well), and I worked two part-time jobs, had 20 credits, 7 classes, three in-class presentations, and two research projects + 2 papers (30 pages total) besides my writing sample due (38 pages overall). If you really want to apply to graduate school, you make it work. All of my sample is edited and complete, and I've written SOPS + extra essays for 7 schools. It's doable, you just need a lot of motivation (and maybe coffee). ETA: The best way to balance an overly full schedule is to SCHEDULE EVERYTHING you HAVE to do. I print a basic weekly schedule and block out class times and work shifts, then I block out certain times I know I can socialize (I see friends for coffee on monday mornings or monday evenings), my Sunday mornings-afternoons are "Free" time, or my work isn't scheduled saturday or friday nights and I have time to see folks), and then I block out breakfast/lunch/dinner. Everything else is studying/writing or free time if my work goals for the week are met. Managing your time is so important when you're trying to balance applications and finals in the same week.

No. As stated previously, you waive your right to DEMAND to see the letter, or the ability to see the letter that the institution has as a copy. This does NOT mean you cannot be offered the contents of the letter, or the ability to see it by the writer, it just means the institution will seal the files on THEIR end. This is what you are waiving the right to:

Perhaps try Daedalus Books? http://www.salebooks.com/ . A mentor of mine has had good luck with them before. Or maybe Powell's? http://www.powells.com/ . Also try The Strand online http://www.strandbooks.com/index.cfm . Depending on where you live, there may also be nearby or local specialized/used bookstores. Unfortunately some of them don't offer their titles online, but others do or will let you call and ask, and hold them for pick up.

The answer is beyond my ability to count, as I was born abroad, and lived in two other countries besides the United States, and have been going to museums and historic sites on family trips since birth. But a rough estimate would be 5 different countries, and 40+ museums, regardless of whether or not you're counting "Museum" by ICOM's standards, or the AAM. I would say I remember at least 30 of those trips from childhood until now, but will gladly discount my infant adventures in Europe. I don't care to bother to myself with further listing states, countries, and museums. It's a waste of my time. My current degree is -- shocker -- museum studies. I certainly feel qualified to discuss how specialized or not my own degree is, given that I'm employed at a museum. Hint: Museum Studies covers botanical gardens, art museums, history museums, national parks, zoos, science museums, youth museums, historic sites and homes, maritime or military museums, arboretums, STEM centers, and aquariums, as well as certain non-profit galleries and conventions. So to specialize in a particular area of art or history doesn't seem odd to me at all. To suggest that someone from my field couldn't easily apply their knowledge to other non-profits, or even related for-profit work is a tad silly. The field, while hyper-competitive, is not non-existent. Cluny is a dream position for said example, not the only acceptable or available position ever. Do you mean to imply that Medieval studies is a single program in a field, or museum studies? Frankly I'm confused, and both claims are wrong. People who aren't cut out to be astronauts generally do other things. That's not a failure of the process of becoming an astronaut, however. Are there problems with trying to over-train large amounts of people in highly specialized degrees for only one job? Yes. But that doesn't mean the studies themselves are useless, it means we need to rethink who gets graduate degrees, why, and what they are going to do with them.

I agree with what was said here, but if you intend to draw figures, you need to take figure drawing courses. The weaknesses in anatomy are the easiest thing to spot and also the most glaring when people critically view figures. Without a strong basis in figural drawing, any figures you compose will be weaker than they could be. I have yet to meet an artist who did not improve having taken advanced figure drawing classes, or one who regret taking them. There are good ideas here, but they won't reach their fullest level without composition, anatomy, etc. You can't break the rules before you've mastered them. Just look up Picasso's classic academy-style sketch works. This: came long before this: I think your art clearly displays a desire to work with figures, and thus advise you take more classes to perfect your formal abilities.

But your example, the Musée de Cluny, absolutely would require an academic background for curatorial work. That's not a pet project. It may not be the most employable field, but this is not a pet project. Regardless of your personal feelings on the quality of the museum's holdings -- forgive me if I'm reluctant to feel you're the most qualified person to make such calls -- the people who work at museums are often or usually graduate scholars. If you were to have chosen any American museum, a master's or PhD is a standard. Acting as if Medieval studies couldn't be useful in a Medieval museum is a tad silly. The ease of finding a job in such a field is not easy, but that's why it requires a specialized degree... PhD's are meant to be highly specialized folks. Of course there isn't an overflow of such jobs. But that doesn't mean the studies are completely useless or impractical. But what would I know -- I only study museums.

I suppose this is a bit late, but I have a (strong) nitpick: Africa is not a culture. Africa is a continent. It comes off as ignorant to imply it is a monolithic culture, quite honestly. You were immersed in the culture of Swaziland, not Africa. Fabric does not need to be capitalized. The artistic quality of the series is fine, but given your statement mostly reads as culturally appropriative -- not considering your own role in a given society or what it means that you would take something from another culture like this. I much prefer your sculptures. I would also be wary of phrases that don't make sense without context -- what is a "bus rank"? And this sentence doesn't sound cohesive at all: "Given homosexuality is Swaziland is illegal, as well as working on a documentary in a church I constantly had to hide my sexuality and suppress my feminine side."

I was told by the administrator that about a week after the due date they personally notify everyone if their things are all in/have arrived. I would think an unfinished application would look odd given that I personally told them I was applying. But if it's not impolite to message and say I am uninterested now, I won't. I just don't want to appear rude, although I do think it's unfair how they market their program.

I am applying for funded PhDs. And funded MAs. I have two other fully funded MAs on my list plus 4 PhDs. So now that I definitely know this is the weakest program in that respect... it seems pointless. Even if they have my application "in-progress"? I know they will email me about it.

I went to a very informal meeting with a POI and administrator for an MA program I was interested in. This was really a school I had high on my list.... until I got there. Quick summary: POI doesn't know what students are doing (just that two MA graduates got into harvard for their PhD...) + POI doesn't have their own students Most people don't study what POI teaches one of the optional focuses of the program is COMPLETELY and grossly misrepresented (e.g. "comparative ___" means they just have 3 scholars who work on ____ in different countries who don't actually really work with each other. One is only a fellow and won't stay after the next two years.) Most students don't do this. Actually studying comparatively is difficult. The professor who studies ___ seemed surprised I was interested in this. he also seemed surprised I asked about what kinds of projects students assist faculty on and that i asked about how much actual interaction with the studies students get (surprised in that the answer is they don't, and not much.) the POI explained that admits are ranked and given money based on the merits they rank (e.g. top 5 are fully funded, etc) but the administrator afterwards said I would have to ask the Dean about financial aid because he was uncomfortable with discussing it with me (and on second thought he added he didn't know how it worked which seemed bizarre given that he works for the Dean). they both stressed should I be selected for interview it would be highly recommended to purchase and plan a flight/trip/stay across country in the two weeks of turnaround time between interview offers and the interview week. ("We understand it can sometimes be a hassle, but we prefer it. If you absolutely can't we can skype you in.") I've already spent $20 on transcripts and sent my GRE scores but I'm no longer sure this is worth a $70 application fee. The program was misrepresented and I can't afford to buy a flight and hotel room two weeks out much less be uncomfortable with discussing finances. It felt clear to me they were marketing to someone not in my range at all -- this was more penthouse suite occupant than pell grant student. My question is this: 1.) Should I still apply and see if I'm super competitive/able to make the top five with a skype interview? 2.) Should I not apply at all, and if I don't apply should I email them and explain exactly why (while thanking them both for meeting with me)? I sort of feel like this should be something they know. Am I overreacting or are these all the informal visit red flags I think they are?

I don't think I'm assuming anything out of line. These are things my professors have told me -- it's highly unlikely to jump from my Undergrad to an Ivy, for example. And most importantly, I was not intending to apply to a top ten school for an MA because I chose other schools that I thought were better suited and more likely to take me. This isn't about shooting myself in the foot before I apply, this is I selected different schools, and a professor suggested I only use them as jumping points, instead of staying for the PhD if I end up enjoying the program. (I'm applying to three PhDs, and three MAs.) It has nothing to do with not feeling good enough. I feel fine about myself. But I know as people have said, this is a field about pedigree which as an undergrad, I do not have based on my university's name. I'm not applying to bad schools, but I did not have top tens on my list and am still very interested in the programs I am applying to. The idea that I don't realize class is a factor is silly -- I know precisely how much class and race will affect me in my applications. I also don't appreciate condescending remarks about schmoozing with the rich. Just because I myself am not flush with cash does not mean I have never been exposed to my own field, donors, or the wealthy. I have connections, many of which prompted my choices. This doesn't mean I'm particularly more inclined to trade up something I think suits me over a Top Ten school simply because it's a top school, but not even the top program of my subfield?

Oh sure, Art History itself? Snobbish and out of touch. But I think this is where we fundamentally have different perspectives -- a museum employee does act as a public service worker. Maybe not a "traditional social worker" but we are non-profit employees whose goals generally include serving the public. I don't just want to be excellent in my field of academia, that designation more or less won't mean anything unless I can: protect my field's future, pass my knowledge on, research, curate, and serve future generations. On the museum side of things? People who can't set aside their own egos and realize they're around to do just that? That they are non-profit employees? Most museums don't have time for that! Non-profits aren't academia. True, museums are just as self-feeding but... while there is snobbishness, it's not quite the same. Look, I'm a minority. My mother didn't finish college. I go to a low ranking state school which is something of a national joke -- no one on my faculty is going to lie to me and say just because I'm an excellent student, I'm going to get into Harvard or Berkeley straightaway. It won't happen -- because of politics. Let's not kid ourselves: I have an extreme disadvantage and all of my professors admit it, and that disadvantage is because I'm too poor to afford attending better schools. My actual recommenders were kind enough to suggest schools that A.) fund generously B.) they have connections at and C.) will help me get into museums work. I'll be perfectly clear: I'm economically disadvantaged, and this is a field meant for the well to do. It's snobbish, elitist, and incredibly lacking in diversity. I can't tell you how many little tiny things frustrate me in this field that assumes I am wealthy. (Professors refusing to order books from my campus bookstore...which means I can't apply my Pell Grant money to buying textbooks...classmates who laugh and say money isn't an issue...paid internships that only exist in other states and would require hundreds of dollars out of pocket to fly cross country and eat, never mind the paltry $1500 stipend if I actually got accepted, or more locally, one of the top museums in the city requiring official transcripts, a $15 fee I can't afford just to apply for a job I won't get paid to do.) I'm in it because I'm tenacious, it's what I love, and I'm good at it. But I'm also here because I want my field to be accessible to other people like myself. Don't kid anyone. This field does not welcome people who are simply talented. They take the well off and talented first. It's just frustrating feeling like I myself am not good enough when I could get into a variety of other places that would have me.

I am applying to Williams. I have very little desire to do a PhD at a school that discourages curatorial work. An MA would be one thing, I can pursue outside things on my own time. But a PhD? It would be detrimental to what I want to do -- and would render my pursuit of a PhD utterly pointless. I don't dislike academia, but I also am not aiming to be a professor. I wouldn't waste my time going after a degree that -- while I might enjoy it and obtain some exciting opportunities -- would hinder me on my actual career path. It would be silly. So I'm cautious of any degree that looks nice on paper but doesn't teach me. The schools on my list generally meet my areas of interest, are known for good funding, and have some sort of connection to museums work. It makes me uneasy to feel this is misguided somehow?

To tell you the truth, quite a few of the people I know and have met in museums did not go to top ten schools. I've spoken with curators in my field at highly respected museums, and...they also did not go to top ten schools. (I know exactly where they went -- I'm applying there under recommendation for the programs.) And quite a few of them went to state schools that have excellent programs in their fields. Obviously I'm going to ask about job placement, but -- the people I know who are working in museums aren't all from the Top Ten. In fact, most of the people I know care far more about abilities and skills than brand name because let's face it, museums are professional jobs which require a lot of work. It's not purely academic. Similar to how those who wish to go into the teaching side of Art History shouldn't only admire teaching jobs at R1 schools and the ivies because there are more jobs available at small colleges across the country, I don't feel as someone hoping to go into the museums field I should only be vying to be a candidate at The Met. It would be amazing, of course. But I know more state school/non-top ten curators than I do Ivy grads, for example.

ameshu205: This is something I feel has already been especially true of my undergraduate education. When my elite lib arts college became unaffordable after my first year (the first college I had been accepted to took away my financial aid...despite the fact that I'm pell grant eligible, the one I attended raised tuition), I went to my low ranking home state school to get an education I still couldn't afford but would at least be able to manage. I know this looks bad coming from my UG -- so that's why a lot of my programs are MAs or less "ranked" schools (in addition to field matches). I'm an excellent student, and I know it. But coming from my UG, you likely wouldn't get into Yale or Harvard anyways. My CV is extensive given the circumstances and my age. I spend a LOT of time getting experience and doing different things that ended up on my CV, in part to offset this, and in part because I want to be competitive. I don't just strive to be the best in my major at my school -- I want experience. (I've been both a regular fish in a tiny pond and a fish in a massive pond that happens to stand out where I am). Obviously I have a lot of concerns regarding employment, and jumping "up" would be helpful (everywhere is up from here), but I am wary of sacrificing personal fit for name brand just because I feel the need to be "successful". It's not that I'm not ambitious -- I have plenty of ambition to spare -- but I do fear ambition will only leverage me so far due to politics (which has happened before). This seems to be what this professor is cautioning me will happen if I don't work my way into a Top 10 eventually. I guess my fear is I can't reconcile ambition with passion or interest and employability. (Ironic, from an Art Historian .) I'm not opposed to the Top 10. And certainly after an MA I might find myself wanting to go to these schools. But it feels a bit early to be so pressured to make this my end goal -- and to discourage the PhD apps I am making as "jumping points" more than programs I would genuinely obtain a PhD from. TL;DR but thank you. Hopefully things will happen the way they are meant to.

I've heard people recommend not to use anything "too old" too much to prove we've read recent scholarship. This is a bit iffy for my writing sample as it's focusing on turn of the century works, so my dates are spread out from primary sources in the late 1800's/early 1900's and then 1950's+. -- Fair enough. It's not that I don't have ambition, or don't understand the job market as it stands. But I still interned under a curator who had a museum studies MA, you know? I'm a little concerned about what the Top Ten even is -- I suppose? I'm happy with the MAs I'm applying to and don't mind moving up (in most cases that would be ideal) but I'm interested in Asian Decorative Arts. Shouldn't I be more concerned with top programs in that field, rather than just Art History in general? Not to mention I can't really make heads or tails of these NRC rankings -- for my MA I'm more interested in fit and faculty who I think would engage me. I'm not applying to bad schools, by any means! But I'm fairly certain none of the ones that also have PhD programs are Top Ten schools and definitely none of them are ivies. Another example: I said I was interested in Asian Art, Professor suggested Ohio State for an MA. The deadline was too soon for me, and I said it would be a good PhD option to consider later since they have a strong Asian History and Art History related department and plenty of resources, but he waved this notion off, saying I shouldn't go to a state school for a PhD. Perhaps if I had an idea of top ten schools -- or top twenty, even -- I would feel more comfortable for post-MA (assuming I get accepted someplace) applications that "fit" my interests? I hate to sound ignorant, but I really considered research fit and ability to fund more than anything else.

A few questions for the fellow art historians: 1.) Approximately how worried should we be if we have citations that are in our writing sample bibliography that don't fall into the last twenty years OR the window of time we're writing about as primary sources? (ex: something from the 1970's or 1980's that is an excellent source, as well as contemporary sources, and primary sources?) I have about 3-4 pages of bibliography if I recall correctly, and some of the sources don't meet the twenty year rule. 1.5) Anyone else torn between which writing sample to send? 2.) One of my recommenders/professors introduced me to another professor who kindly offered to help edit my SOPs. He's been extremely helpful and brutally honest, and my SOPs have improved over the course of the first two meetings I've had with him. I owe him a lot for taking the time to help me (as I'm not even his student) but there is one small issue I have: Over the course of our meetings, he's learned my GPA, my stats, what my CV looks like, etc. He saw my list of three schools I could afford to apply to and insisted I add another three schools -- because I need a plan B and this is my future. I don't necessarily disagree, but this does make me anxious. This Professor is keenly aware of the politics of name brand schools and hiring practices which privilege top school students over others. The PhD programs I chose to add he suggested as using as stepping stones for the MA, and a better PhD elsewhere. The MAs are also meant to get me somewhere "better" than the schools I currently have on my list. He does not like my top choice school not because it's not an excellent program at what I want (it is), but because "You probably won't get hired at The Met if you go." My second choice PhD program is ALSO an excellent school with a strong program in the exact thing I want to study and his advice was more or less "Well if you go there, it won't be the end of the world." I tried to politely point out that "Not everyone can go to Harvard eventually..." but I'm not sure this got across. I understand that scholars who can support your future are important, that job placement is important, that people privilege the Top 20 schools, and so on, but I can't help but be concerned. Asking about these things and thinking about them is important, but I don't necessarily consider my career over if The Met doesn't hire me. Is he right? Should "lesser" PhD programs really just be used to obtain a master's and move on, even if they study things I am interested in? Am I not being strategic enough in thinking my MA should only move me "up" to a better school? My top choice now I am intending to tell I would also want to apply for a PhD at their school down the line but it's not Harvard or Yale. My other top choice is an outright PhD program I think I would be happy at. I'm unsure -- the rest of his advice is sound, but the added SOPs I now have to write and the pressure of feeling my selections aren't quite good enough is unsettling. I didn't add any programs I felt wouldn't be of interest to me personally, but all the same I don't know how else to explain that I'd rather just worry about round one of applications right now. How much "Degree prestige" politics should I be worried about? I don't intend to be a professor.

Terrible is flat out bottom, unfortunately. I have my suspicions I would have come closer to the 50% percentile had the system not glitched and/or I'd said something about my test issue. I'm retaking (I signed up yesterday after I finished my exam and calmed down), for the obvious reason of it seems like a non-score rather than an actual score (Because I did answer questions and yet to bottom score seems like I somehow skipped the final Quant portion and not the random extra portion by some bizarre accident), but I'm not wholly convinced I'll do terribly well even if everything goes right. The rest of the test was fine -- my studying prepared me for the types of questions they wanted me to answer, but other than that, I didn't need it. The writing wasn't too bad, the verbal felt fine, but the Quant was overwhelming. Still -- I'm used to scoring mediocre in exams for Math/Quant, not flat out terrible, which is what led me to believe something was wrong because of the weird lack of a sixth section on my exam.