gradytripp

Since this field is relatively small, a school beyond the top ten is a big step down in prestige. There simply aren't enough people going for professional degrees in MPP or MPA to allow for a large number of excellent programs. It's true that your school won't matter much for government work, but for other areas, it could have an impact. Your cohort at University of Kentucky is likely to be of a different calibre than at Syracuse. 

Since this field is relatively small, a school beyond the top ten is a big step down in prestige. There simply aren't enough people going for professional degrees in MPP or MPA to allow for a large number of excellent programs. It's true that your school won't matter much for government work, but for other areas, it could have an impact. Your cohort at University of Kentucky is likely to be of a different calibre than at Syracuse. 

Since this field is relatively small, a school beyond the top ten is a big step down in prestige. There simply aren't enough people going for professional degrees in MPP or MPA to allow for a large number of excellent programs. It's true that your school won't matter much for government work, but for other areas, it could have an impact. Your cohort at University of Kentucky is likely to be of a different calibre than at Syracuse. 

Adam, please feel free to PM me about this...happy to share my perspective inasmuch as I have a broader experience than some of the other posters here. Keneisha's point is well taken. Gradytrip's is the usual mantra. Much of your decision should be based on what you ultimately want to do and how much debt you want to incur.

Since this field is relatively small, a school beyond the top ten is a big step down in prestige. There simply aren't enough people going for professional degrees in MPP or MPA to allow for a large number of excellent programs. It's true that your school won't matter much for government work, but for other areas, it could have an impact. Your cohort at University of Kentucky is likely to be of a different calibre than at Syracuse. 

Armadillo:
 
There's a few current SAIS students and SAIS grads who have NPRjunkie's attitude and opinion. Every school has them. They carry chronic dissatisfaction with them wherever they go. Some people really don't know what they want to do when they go to Grad School. NPRjunkie is sharing his experiences with you in that regard. When it doesn't work out, most switch to what does work out. You should visit SAIS and check it out. Its easy to do. Don't be dismayed by NPRjunkie's commentary or his attitude. When NPRjunkie started posting, his side bio said he was presently attending SAIS. Now he says he's a few years out. I don't know if he even went there. You have to have a thick skin in this business. You have to be flexible. Several of my friends in conflict management switched to other fields. Some of my friends in regional programs have switched fields, too. SAIS is an I/R school. Some people aren't cut out for it. If you want to develop your I/R skills set, go there. I had a regional background and strategic language skills before I applied. I'm developing a skill set, now. I'm not sure I'd go there for conflict management. I chose not to apply to Columbia because it has a reputation for being a  big and impersonal program. SAIS is a more intimate learning environment, although its individual programs are somewhat insular. I spoke with a lot of people in my field and a lot of potential employers before I made my decision. You should do the same. SAIS has been good to me. I could not recommend it enough.
 
And NPRjunkie: Its always good to hear from my fans! Good luck to you too! I sincerely hope things get better for you...

Thanks for the "insight" DipNote. Hope that always works out for you.

Hey dizzle and others,
 
I'm also in a very similar boat - hopefully we can all work this out. Having lived and worked on both coasts, my impression is that if you want to live in California, there is no better school on heaven or earth than UC Berkeley, and that includes Harvard. People love Berkeley grads, especially in the Bay Area. Everywhere else, reputation-wise, I think Harvard has a pretty serious edge. If I wanted to work on the federal level or internationally, I would definitely choose Harvard. I'm more interested in state and local work though, and I've got a lot of roots in California already, so that makes it a little more appealing for me.
 
On the price tag, I think it depends on your personal preference. If you're just trying to make as much money as you possibly can or get a hold on the "keys to power," then... well, I think you've applied to the wrong programs. Otherwise, I think $80,000 worth of debt, while not desirable, is probably acceptable if it's going to help you achieve your career goals (keeping in mind that this debt might come up in background checks for federal government jobs). The rule of thumb is not to take out more than you'll make in your first year, and $80,000 lands right on that line.
 
As far as the classroom aspect goes, I don't have anything to offer save conjecture, but I think chocolatecheesecake may have hit the nail on the head, and would add only that all those classmates and globe-trotting professors at Harvard might turn into a really, really nice professional network one day.
 
What do other people think? Are you guys leaning one way or another? I also got a really nice offer from Carnegie Mellon, so I'm considering them as well...

I hope this is helpful to future applicants:
 
Previous Schools (Name, type, or tier): Top Public School
Previous Degrees and GPAs: B.Sc. Math, Economics, >3.6 
GRE Scores (Verbal/Quantitative/Analytical Writing): V160 Q167 AW 5
Previous Work Experience (Years, Type): 3 yrs in a federal reserve equivalent of a developing country
Math/Econ Background: calc 1,2,3, diff eq, real analysis, abstract algebra, numerical methods, probability theory (grad), linear algebra (grad), linear optimization (grad), topology (grad -phd level)/ Microecons (intermediate and advanced), macroecons (intermediate and advanced), international and development econs electives, economics honors class
Intended Field of Study in Grad School: Economic policies
Long Term Professional Goals: Economic policies in IFIs
Schools Applied to & Results:
Accepted: HKS MPA/ID, WWS MPA ($$$$), Harris MPP ($$), Goldman MPP, SIPA MPP ($), Stanford IPS
Rejected: Yale Global Affairs Masters
Ultimate Decision & Why: WWS, Economics and Public Policy track. Primarily due to the small class size and greater individual attention. The full scholarship helps, but even with a full scholarship from HKS I would've chosen to go to WWS. 
 
Advice for Future Applicants:
 
1. GPA- Try to get it above 3.5. 
 
2. GRE- There has been discussions about how much weight is given to GRE by the adcoms.  My advice is regardless, don't let them use this as a reason to ding you. Get a score above the safe threshold of V/Q/A - 160, 160, 5. This is really a beatable exam, just study for it like crazy and do lots of quality exercises and practice tests.  I endorse magoosh and manhattan gre.
 
3. Work experience-  I think there are many ways to think about work experience. My approach is to emphasize depth over breadth.  I believe what you do counts a lot, and often you will only be given big projects/ assessments tasks after working for some time in an organization.  I stayed in one organization for three years after graduation.  So I had time to be involved in complete process of policy making: from risk assessment, escalation of risk to top management, policy recommendation, to representing my organization in responding to external parties. Because of the coherence it was easy for me to sell my experience to adcoms in applications. 
 
An added advantage of emphasizing depth over breath is your bosses would have more things to write about you in rec letters, because they know you for a longer period of time (this is only natural!). Having said that through, there is a risk of staying in an organization for too long, when the learning curve starts to flatten or when a person is starting to over-specialize.  So there needs to be a careful balance. 
 
In any case, I strongly echo previous posters advice: DO NOT apply for a professional degree without first having professional experience.  International experience is a plus. Internships are okay, but know that the responsibilities given to an intern cannot be compared to the ones given to a full-time employee. 

Hi, I want to reiterate what the previous post.  Personally, when I went back to do my master's in public policy  (at American University in Public Policy, a decent top 15ish program) I had been out of school for a year or two and had about 0 relevant work experience. I am now about to start a PhD at SPEA of Indiana, a very top school, with very little work experience outside of the TA position I had at American.  I guess what I am trying to say is that there is no formula that admission committees follow, they look at a variety of factors and actually value having a diverse student class. My best advice would be to be honest, talk about what is commonly recommended; your qualifications (including work experience), your goals and motivations and why you fit into the program.  But also don't be afraid to talk about what makes you different and what/why you have things to offer that others do not
 
Second, public affairs master's programs are not really in the business of preparing students for a future in the public sector, they are in the business of preparing students for careers policy, whether that is in the public, private or non profit sector.  Personally I know a lot of peers from my program went into the private sector and I know statistically most people will move between sectors over the course of their careers. And in terms of the international bit as long as you have the necessary work authorizations your job prospect would be like everyone elses.

I agree with other posters that the most important factor is probably self-selection. 
 
I also understand that the school you mention specifically, WWS, focuses a good bit of its mission and unique scholarship program on providing a low cost degree to people who want to pursue work in the non-profit/local government sectors in careers that generally don’t pay well and where graduating with a lot of debt would be problematic for them. Therefore, although there wouldn't be an automatic ideological slant to those candidates and positions, it is probably true that both the applicants and many of the institutions that are offering those types of jobs, trend towards liberal/left.  As a result applicants that the fulfill WWS’s profile of demonstrating a plan to pursue a public policy career in low paying fields, would be somewhat more likely to describe a career in a liberal institution. That said, I think WWS is kind of an outlier, and probably not the best place to get a feel for the overall dynamic of most MPA programs.

Students in top IR programs are less liberal than you would think, especially considering how many are studying business and security.  Also, since so many students are foreign, it's not really that big of a deal and the viewpoints do not tend to fall in american style conservative or liberal camps.

It would surprise me if there was any discrimination in terms of admission for MPP programs, though I expect students in the top IR programs to lean liberal, so you may feel a bit ostracized every now and then, just as any minority would feel.

But this is DEFINITELY not true for federal government jobs. Trust me, there are plenty of conservatives (and they outnumber liberals in certain sectors) in the federal government. I think there are fewer conservatives interested in IR careers in fields like development or becoming a FSO, though other fields (international security, military relations, conflict studies) you will find a healthy conservative contingent.

Good luck#

I agree with albuhhh that it's probably self-selection.  When I did my MPA at Syracuse most students were left-leaning politically (including myself), but we had a couple of conservative students who added greatly to classroom discussions.  I wish there had been more.

I don't at all think that it will hurt you in admissions. Most schools, especially the elite programs, are looking to fill a diverse class where the students can learn from each other, and my guess is having work experience that differs from the rest of the applicants can only help you.
 
I think the main reason it seems that MPP/MPA students are overwhelmingly left leaning is self-selection. I have plenty of right leaning friends who work in politics/government, but for whatever reason, very few of them apply to MPP/MPA programs and instead tend to lean towards law school. Anecdotally small sample size, so take it with a grain of salt.

Are your parents experts in your field of interest? If not, then tell them (nicely, of course!) to back off. It may even be worthwhile to show them the grad school pages where they explicitly state that they prefer applicants 2-3 years out, as you're 100% right that work experience is extremely beneficial to MPP programs. After your campaign experience, I think it could only help you to work for 1-2 years in a field related to your interests to clarify what you'd eventually like to do long term. 
 
Good luck, though -- I know what it's like to have pushy parents...

There's nothing wrong with applying from undergrad if you're 100% sure it is what you want to do. The only thing that gives me pause is that you stated you "need a little help planning out your life". A lot can change in just a couple of years, especially fresh out of college. What you think you want to do can change very easily, and the last thing you want is to get locked in to a career and a large amount of debt and realize a couple years in that you actually wanted to do something a little bit different.  
I originally applied straight from undergrad, and realized I needed more time. I worked for two years, and then re-applied after having a better perspective on what I wanted to do. I have a much clearer picture of what I want to do, and I think having the additional experience made me a more attractive candidate. 

Hey y'all! I wanted to post, too, to get some feedback. I think I could get in some places, but I don't know if that's false confidence. Whaddya you guys think? What are my odds? ALL criticism is more than welcome, people. I want to get into a good policy analysis program that can give me a strong international focus. My dream is to get into the Foreign Service after completing an MPP/MPA. I'll also be applying for a Pickering. (Think I could be competitive for that? Any of you guys have ANY IDEA how competitive it is to get a Pickering?) If there are schools that I missed that would also fit well with the program I just loosely described, please give me shout and let me know! Good luck to all of you!
 
Applying for Fall 2015 to: Goldman MPP (UC Berkeley, top choice), Ford MPP (UMichigan, I would also be very happy here), Maxwell (Syracuse, MPA), WWS (Princeton MPA), Harvard (HKS MPP)
 
Undergrad: UNC Chapel Hill 2012
Major/GPA: Spanish/International Studies double major, Chinese minor
GPA: 3.54 (distinction)
GRE: Verb- 163 (91%)
          Quant- 161 (83%)
          Writing- 5.5 (96%)
 
Languages: Spanish (fluent, advanced), Mandarin Chinese (intermediate)
 
International Experience: Southeast Asia (study abroad Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, Summer 2009), Spain (study abroad, Spring 2010), China (study abroad summer 2011), Panama (Peace Corps 2013-present)
 
Coursework: I've taken coursework in single and multi-variable calculus (back in the day as an undergrad), statistics (even longer ago. . .but I got college credit for it and it's on my transcript so it counts, right?) and economics (intro, calc based micro, international, developmental). And, ya know. . .international studies type classes that are less technical and maybe less relevant to mention here. I've also been taking some online calc and macroecon policy courses to brush up since I've been in Peace Corps and haven't been using my academic brain as much.
 
Work experience: Really my only relevant experience would be my current Peace Corps service (I'm mid-service, one year under my belt, will have finished my second year before my degree program would start). I'm an Education Volunteer in Panama and I'm also involved in several gender/women's/youth development initiatives and HIV/AIDS awareness activities. Nothing too technical, but I'll be trying to sell it for all it's worth in my SOP!
 
SOP/Personal Statement: Working on these. I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to mention to you all here. I want to be an FSO. I also have interests in education policy and immigration policy (more or less in that order). More than anything, like I said earlier, I want a program that is strong in policy analysis, has an international focus, and is very practicum-based rather than theory/thesis-writing focused. I gotta little bit of a sob story about some obstacles I've overcome, but I don't want my personal statement to sound like a sob story, so if you have tips on how to strike that balance, please let me know!
 
Recommendations:
 
*Pretty well-known political science professor from my undergrad days. I haven't talked to him in about a year, but he knows me pretty well and we've had a relationship all throughout undergrad, so I'm confident I could get a pretty good recommendation from him. I'm thinking this recommendation could speak to my academic merits.
 
*A pretty senior Peace Corps staff member here in the office in Panama. My idea for this recommendation is to have a rec that speaks to my work experience.
 
*A staff member at Community School of the Arts, where I was once a student and have been volunteering for years ever since. There's a program director there that jokingly calls my sisters and I her daughters, so I'm wondering if that relationship may be too familial for a good recommendation? My idea with this recommendation was to get a rec that speaks to my committment to public service.
 
Alright y'all. Thanks for reading my novel of stats, here. Any advice you all have would be more than welcome. If there's anybody that's up for trading personal statements and statements of purpose, I am always looking to peer-edit. I'd like to get some feedback before my essays hit the desk in admissions at Berkeley and Michigan, so I'll scratch your back if you'll scratch mine.

Paz y amor, chic@s!
Aja

They are absolutely not worth the debt. Don't go to grad school if it'll give you more than a little debt. It's a scam.

I was in a similar position when applying, MPP2015. I knew my manager and group at work would be unhappy to see me leave, as they value the work I do, and the shift in career path I'm seeking pretty much guarantees I won't be back. Instead, I had someone else at work write a recommendation for me who is outside of my reporting structure and doesn't interact with my group often. I had worked with him on a project before, so he knew my capabilities, though I didn't work with him on a regular basis. I'd recommend Gov2School's advice of getting the professional recommendation, but looking for someone outside of your immediate manager. It worked well for me!

Obviously you should check the websites of the programs you're interested in, but from my application cycle I recall that most programs said that if you're working they prefer to have at least one professional reference.  If you don't get along well with your boss though, it doesn't necessarily have to be that particular person.   Maybe you could get someone else at your office to write a recc for you? Or your Fulbright program director? Or if there's someone higher up in the organization who you could convince to write a letter, that would be a possibility as well.  You have some time before you have to turn in your applications, so you can put some thought/planning behind it.  You could also ask someone who you've worked for previously, if you've had professional jobs prior to doing the Fulbright.  I changed jobs in the middle of my application cycle, so even though I referenced my new job on my apps, I didn't have my current boss write me an LOR because we just didn't know each other well yet.  Instead, I had previous employers who I knew well act as my professional references. 

Personally, it seems to me that it's not worth it. The home requirement really limits your opportunities post-graduation, and I don't think it's worth it for the amount they're offering you. If you know you're going to go back home, then it's no problem. But if you think you may want to get a job in the US or in a third country, or you're just not sure, this can be a real limiting factor down the line. (Personally I don't think any amount is worth it, but unlike you I don't think going home for two years after I graduate would be good for my career at all so I never applied in the first place.) As for the prestige, at least in my (academic) field it's completely acceptable to have fellowships you were offered and declined on your CV, so if things are the same in your field then you have very little to gain from accepting the fellowship. All that matters is that you won it, and that's good enough for having it on your CV.

In my opinion, part time programs are only really worth it if they're comparatively cheaper, if you're getting your employer to pay part of the bill, or if there's some really compelling personal reason why you can't go back to school full time (i.e., you have a family to support and uprooting your life isn't realistic).  One other reason might be if you're trying to completely change careers, and you want to keep your current job in case your chosen career path doesn't work out.  I know for example, people who work in the tourism sector in DC who want to switch to something more academic, and have done part time masters in their desired field while continuing their tourism job.  Though as a note of caution it doesn't seem to have yet helped them make the transition they're seeking. 
 
Otherwise, it doesn't seem like you'll gain much benefit from a part time program, especially if you're already working in your field of choice.  You've worked on campaigns and on the Hill so you know that experience, judgement, and reliability are real prizes in DC worth probably more than any advanced degree. At your age and stage of career, if you have a reputation for those qualities, you can still have a lot of career growth in DC before you hit the "Masters Degree Ceiling."    If you're not ready to go back to school full time, then rather than try for a part time program, why not just wait a few years and see how you feel then?   There's no rush, grad school will always be there.  
 
I had a lot of the same anxieties as you vis a vis grad school.  I have a good career in DC that I love, a strong network of contacts that I worried about losing touch with, and frankly, I enjoy working and wasn't sure I was ready to give up a steady paycheck for a graduate program.  I was really ambivalent for a long time about going back to school, so I waited.  By the time I actually start my grad program, It will be six years since I graduated with my BA (I don't know where the time went!).   I don't regret waiting, I think my experience helped me in a lot of ways.  I got into all the schools that I applied to, and even though my GRE quant scores and quantitative background were not the best, I got generous merit aid packages at most of my schools. But beyond that, it's only now that I'm several years out from undergrad that I feel a) ready to go back to the academic life and b ) poised to get the most out of my two year program.  I'll miss DC, but I'm ready to immerse myself in a new experience.  And I plan to take full advantage of my chosen program's financial resources to get back to DC a few times a semester and keep in touch with my contacts. 

I'm a couple years out of SAIS. Whatever preparation you made, your analysis of DC in relation to IR is mostly inaccurate and should not have guided your decision making. 
 
In any case, good luck and enjoy your time there.

This song is sung by everyone attending school in DC and while it's partially true that "IR in the states evolves [sic] around DC" (have you forgotten where the UN is, not to mention where countless NGO, MNC, and bank headquarters are?) you do not need to attend school in DC to be involved in IR. DC is filled to the brink with IR students. SAIS students do not stand out (even in DC) in job applications--there are just too many. The reputations of these schools in the job market itself is far less than what it is to the students who attend them, and your chances of landing an IR job/internship are not significantly enhanced by being in DC. It's not as though it is hard to get from Boston, NJ, or NYC to DC, or to get a summer internship there, and SAIS has definite drawbacks of its own (like every school). I felt like I was in a kiddie pool at many moments studying there with how little world/work experience my cohort had. And after all, IR isn't just about the United States... no one will care where you attend school if you are applying abroad for jobs/internships. Not to mention, if you get into WWS, HKS--all things being equal in terms of funding--you would be dumb to choose SAIS, most especially for the reason that it is located in DC.
 
Also, the quant/econ really isn't as hard or rigorous as people make it out to be so long as you go in with a basic familiarity, and I think all IR programs offer pre-term econ/math refreshers. The main drawback of SAIS is that it lacks the versatility of a better branded school if you want to work outside DC and IR. Try flaunting that SAIS degree in the Bay Area or NYC, as I tried to, and you'll end up with quizzical looks and a dearth of job responses. So many SAIS grads end up acting like a PR firm for their own school. Here's an insider insight: it's because they have to. Every time I read a SAISer's comments on these forums I'm sensing only insecurity about the value of the program, and it's because I went there and know the feeling/tendencies well. Who are the most satisfied people who went to IR/public policy programs? I would suggest they are largely the ones not spending time on these forums... 
 
If you're sure you want to be in DC and work in IR, though, yes: great program. Hardly as unimpeachably wonderful as it is constantly touted to be here, though. Really scrutinize what you want out of a program and get all perspectives.