NervousNellie

I am applying for a masters program for the fall. I completed my undergrad program 8-10 years ago depending on the exact measure. Every once-in-a-while in the process, I get twinges of mild regret about not having gone straight from undergrad to grad studies. I wouldn't trade the last decade for the world, of course. I've been raising my kids and also doing amazing work in my career. I've learned a TON! So it isn't real jealousy, but just these twinges I feel. In "real life" I am very focused on the positive, but I think I need to vent/whine for a second...and what I am really looking for is to know that I am not totally alone on this. First, I am not as "sharp" as I was in the days of undergrad. I don't remember things as easily (complicated by a neurological issue that has developed, but I suspect also in part because of lack of academic study for some time and a little age thrown in the mix). I don't think or write as quickly. My writing skills have gone way down despite doing work that involves a lot of writing. I certainly am not experienced anymore with academic writing. And now I also have many more typos, etc. I already feel way behind the times in terms of technology. I know many folks my age have kept up, but I still don't have a cell phone (and I'm really not that old). I had to go through heck to locate a professor, who did fortunately remember me well and agree to write me a strong letter of recommendation, but she seems to have disappeared off the face of the planet and deadlines have come and gone. Sure would make it nice to be seeing her daily and to nag her in person instead of trying to time emails just right and then wondering if she's received them...or if something has happened to her. Due to turnover in my undergrad program, I could not locate the two professors required by two of the programs for letters of recommendation. There is a lot I don't remember. While I can (but don't generally choose to) run circles around an undergrad actually trying to apply their learnings to the world, when the undergrads start quoting philosophers, despite doing work in which I read and reference philosophers, I still have to go look up names half the time before I can rejoin the conversation. I have not kept up with reading the way I used to, not because I don't LOVE it (I do) but because my children especially have been all encompassing for a few years. (I know, I know...no excuse...lots of folks still keep up, but I didn't and boohoo on me.) I don't have professors to read over my statement of purpose and give me tips (though I do appreciate my attorney friends who actually enjoyed lending a hand). I studied for the GRE while balancing several major deadlines at work AND negotiating special needs services at the public school for my son AND going to therapy with my daughter AND breaking up fights between my children AND fitting in quality time with my kids AND surviving my marriage nearly falling apart at the seams while I tried to have it all AND AND AND... I couldn't locate my fantastic undergrad research paper that I worked on pain-stakingly for a semester, edited weekly by one of my profs. I know I saved it. Don't know where it is. Writing college papers on the fly to submit with my application just seemed to really put me at a disadvantage when I know that a lot of folks are submitting fresh stuff. Okay, I promise this is it for whining. I have a LOT to be thankful for.

I am in the application stage, and am reading these responses and taking notes. My thoughts right now are almost entirely on finances. I have a 3 and 4 year old (will be 4 and 5 this spring) and I currently am the sole "breadwinner" in my family. Which means I work fulltime. Even if my wife was working, she does not have an undergraduate degree so there is a cap to earning potential while I am in school. I do not know what things will look like when I go to school. I am waiting to see what offers come in and from where. We have two major complications. One is that my children have special needs and despite having public school IEPs (individualized education plans), I don't think their needs will be met in public school. I am currently homeschooling my daughter and my son is going to a private Montessori program that is currently funded through some special needs related funding. The other is that we just bought a house a couple of years ago and because of current home values, would lose all of the savings that we put into a down payment if we sold our house for schooling reasons. That would be a big loss. But our mortgage makes for a crazy big fixed expense (it is a humble home but there is a high cost of housing here), and I don't think we could make near what we pay monthly for it by renting it out. I am applying to four programs: 1. Program one is about 45 minutes to one hour away and is great for working and commuter students (they even have commuter housing!!), so I could remain both. They condense all classes, from what I understand, into a two-day intensive each week. The rest of the week students do their reading, writing, etc., which I know will be intensive but can at least be done on my own time. There are a number of parents attending the program, and a solid community of families (actually, I wish we could sell our house and move on campus because that's when those benefits would really start to pay off). However, this school has very limited funding to offer, and while I feel I am a great candidate for a full scholarship, there are no guarantees and the school certainly won't be offering a stipend. I don't feel comfortable getting saddled with a bunch of student loans given the limited income potential and low number of jobs available in my chosen field. So my ability to attend this school is in question. 2. Program two is an hour away in good traffic, two or more in bad, but there is limited commuter train service (the hours would be the big problem with that option). They require students to attend full-time and are an especially academically rigorous program, so unless I can get an exemption to the full-time requirement (which would limit available funds), I'd have to quit working. Fortunately, they are known for generous funding including stipends, and certainly I would meet their requirement of demonstrated financial needs. 3. Program three is two hours away but rarely would I face the issue of traffic, and they too have potential limited commuter train service. They are also extremely academically vigorous, but they don't require full-time attendance. They do, however, offer generous financial aide including pretty limited stipends with demonstrated financial needs...for those students attending full-time. I could see continuing to work on a very part-time basis if attending at this school, MAYBE. 4. Program four is very unique. It is several states away, but is a "modified residency program" that would require me to do intensives for the classes/lectures two months per year. During the rest of the year, I would be working on my reading, writing, etc. So basically I'd fly out there in January and perhaps July, but be available back home the rest of the time for working even though I'd have classwork on top of it all. It was designed for people like me. It, however, has the least funding of any of the programs. Program 2 and 3, if I got accepted, would be an awful shame to pass up because they have quite the reputation. Plus, there is more funding. Program 1 and 4, however, would allow greater flexibility in me continuing to work, but they wouldn't offer the funding of programs 2 and 3. Honestly, though, I'd just be grateful to get into any. And I'd also accept a deferment if they accepted me but needed some students to hold off for a year (I know program 3 did this last year due to the high number of matriculating students who actually accepted the school's admittance offers). This wasn't what I originally anticipated in terms of timing. I was going to wait until I had four kids and they were all older (middle, high school, or even young adults). But I absolutely have long looked forward to doing this. Last year some issues around timing came up and I realized it may be better for me to do this sooner. Now it doesn't have quite as much urgency, so I'd be happy to wait a year but probably unwise to wait too many.

I have two kids already as well, and am currently applying for a masters program. I have been out of school and working in a vocational career path for 8-10 years or so. My particular vocational work is really demanding and emotionally intensive, albeit with flexibility of schedule. I understand school will be really demanding as well. I am not sure if having kids in one or the other is better. Waiting until one is "done" with studies has its pros and cons. Actually, my wife used to work in a preschool program on a campus of undergrad and grad students. I got to know those families well, and truly they were some of the happiest families I've ever known. They had this great, supportive network amongst themselves. They had potlucks and cookouts together, and when things got rough for one family or another, the community stepped in to help out whenever possible. I've found working while having young children a lonely experience in my field. A lot of folks are older than me and their kids are grown or nearly so. Grad studies demand everything of students, but there will be a community (in some cases smaller, in some cases bigger, depending on where you choose to study) of parents with whom to share the journey. One of the programs I am applying to caught my attention partly because it has a strong community of families on campus. The thing that terrifies me is that I might have to work and study at the same time. If this is the case, I will have to either take "forever and eternity" LOL to finish my studies, with less access to funding opportunities since I won't be studying full time...OR...I will have to put my nose to the grindstone and miss out on a good deal of the next three years of my kids lives. As a working mom of two very young kids (my kids are eleven months apart and will 4 and 5 years old as of late spring), I've often said that I constantly feel I am failing either in my work or at home with my children. "Balance" seems pretty elusive to me. Instead, I'd describe my life as more of a giant pendulum swing, from feeling great about work to feeling great about home. If I stay too long at one end or the other, it gets mighty, mighty uncomfortable because you can only let one thing fail for so long without wanting to give up. I think my feelings while in school will be similar, but there I will be able to say, "this is just three years." I also am following really in the footsteps of my father, who completed both his undergraduate and graduate studies (and worked through a lot of it) with four kids. I remember sitting outside a couple of his classes as a kid, and that memory holds incredible power in my own decisions to pursue advanced studies. I don't know that I'd do it otherwise. I want four kids also. (And to those who say, "wait till you have one" to those who have none, I'd say I subscribe to the threshold theory and believe that there is a number at which it actually gets easier in some ways...though unfortunately that number might be closer to five or six, and my wife doesn't want that many). We are thinking that toward the end of my third year of studies, I may try to get pregnant again (now you know my gender) or we may begin the adoption process again. There is never a perfect time, and at that time I'll be looking at starting an internship (oy!), but I will also be approaching an age when I'll be seeing my last shots at a healthy pregnancy. Also, my kids will then be eight and seven, and I really don't want the spacing to be that great in the first place. I'm not comfortable waiting much longer after that. I am under no illusion that those things (pregnancy and/or adoption) happen in a swift timeframe in most cases, and suspect that neither will succesfully conclude in that third year of my studies. I had secondary infertility (the inability to get pregnant after a pregnancy), and both of my current little ones after fostering. I came from a fertile family, by the way. So all this to say, "when to have kids?" There is no right answer as far as I can tell.

Right. I am in a vocational position in ministry. People give up to a year's notice in my field. That said, both of my supervising ministers know that I am applying for school, and I have tried to make it clear that I really won't know what that means regarding work until at least mid-March. I am applying to two programs that are full-time, traditional programs. But I am also applying to two programs designed for working, commuter students. (All have a good reputation for high quality education, which is why I felt comfortable applying for the latter in addition to the former.) I may continue to work, I may not. If I continue to work, I may reduce my hours significantly, or I may not. Telling my supervising ministers was good on one hand. One wrote letters of recommendation for me and the other said she'd be a reference if I wanted. On the other hand, one of them seems to be treating my work differently now. He is becoming more hands on with my work and sometimes is jumping in to interfere where he never did before. I feel like he is preparing for my departure, and I think it is premature to do that with so much being up in the air. I also told a handful of congregants, under some requests for confidentiality, and I've really appreciated the overwhelming support but word has leaked in a couple cases. It's okay for now, but if rumors start before I really know what I am doing, it could be bad. My plan is to make an announcement of one sort or another as soon as I have accepted an offer, have a financial plan in place, and know what the heck I am going to do.

For me, there was a relationship between being queer and the application process. I am a prospective M.Div. student, which explains most of that relationship. It impacted my decisions about where I applied and also was a constant conversation in my head as I wrote my statement of purpose. My first draft statement of purpose contained evidence of the internal debate, using a hodgepodge mix of terms ranging from "my partner" (a term I very rarely use in real life) to "my wife" (what I usually call the person with whom I had a marriage ceremony and the "other mother" of my children). My sister read through my statement and gently suggested that I'd want to use a consistent term throughout, something that I had simply not straightened out because I was still feeling mixed up about what term to use for the statement. Then there was the school that I was at first most nervous about, as they are the most conservative of the four schools to which I am applying. At their open house, the admissions department actually underscored that they were looking for a diverse student body (and included in their diversity "list" sexual/affectional orientation), and explicitly stated that we each should make clear in our statement of purpose how we would contribute to that body. WELL! That through me for a loop and I went through an incredible debate about whether to make my statement more inclusive of that aspect of my experiences to date. In the end, I did not go down that route, and I am not sure whether that was a good or bad decision on my part. If someone reads my name before reading my statement, my diversity will be clear. If they don't, they are likely to assume I am a male. Still, in the limited space of a statement of purpose, I had too much else to say.

Well, I had to go searching for my post (originally posted in Religion because I was looking for feedback specifically about book availability and e-readers in regard to my discipline), but I am glad I have tracked it down! I really like hearing everyone's thoughts. I admit it's been a while since I've been in academics, but I am not sure what the problem is about reading PDFs. I've never had trouble reading PDFs on my computer (??). Someone enlighten me. You know, it is interesting to hear how much people like their Kindles. The Kindle2 seemed to get some really negative reviews from Amazon buyers, but the feedback here is more encouraging. When I started this thread, I was just learning about the Nook. I like that the Nook sought to address some of the issues with the Kindle, but it didn't seem to pull it off as well as it could have and some are recommending that prospective purchasers hold out for a later generation Nook. Still, even the negative Nook reviews don't come off nearly as badly as the negative Kindle reviews. Tell me about selection. How can someone really compare the selection from one to another. Many of the books that I'd be most interested in are of the kind that are slowly being uploaded to Google books. Actually, the fact that I've been using Google books quite a bit to find old, out of print books was part of what prompted my lust of the e-readers. Also, what about cost? Do book costs really go down some with e-readers in comparison to buying hard copies? Yes, yes, I still relate very much to everyone's love of real BOOKS. I get it. My very first reaction to the e-readers was one of repulsion too. It wasn't until watching my BOOK-loving mom with hers that I got into the idea. She really seems to strike a good balance of experiences in her reading.

Believe me, I like the idea of real-paper books as much as the next guy or gal. I just wrote to a friend the other day that I wanted to move into the library. Beyond the feel, I really like the smell of books, even when they are old and musty. Everytime I open a book, I notice I take a deep breath and inhale the smell. I am sure I will still be reading plenty of paper-books for years to come. Heck, many books are still not available on the readers. That said, for numerous reasons, I love the idea of an e-reader to have in addition to my paper-book collection. Anyone? Anyone?

I can't imagine affording one, but I have been lusting after them ever since I was introduced to my mom's Kindle 1 while visiting her last year. Anyway, I am just curious, just for fun (give me a target for my lust), if there is an e-reader that you think would be particularly good for an M. Div. student.

I tracked down her phone number at the school where she now teaches, and called today. The outgoing message was from the summer (!), but I left a message anyway. I think if I don't hear anything by Monday, I may have to move to plan B (??).

Well, I wrote the tip, but it came from botching two information sessions myself. If only I had realized. It took me the first couple of tries to even figure out the purpose of the information sessions. Then it hit me: they are to give admissions staff faces to put with names.

I have two applications that won't be reviewed *at all* before all items are in, including that letter. I am only waiting on that letter. The first deadline was January 11th. According to the electronic system, she began the letter on that day. That very evening, they announced they were extending the deadline until February 1st. The next morning I saw the letter wasn't done, so I emailed her a friendly email saying basically "you must have seen the announcement...I needed more time too." She wrote a friendly email back and said basically "looks like we were both saved...I just needed a little more time." As the next deadline approached (Jan. 15th), I saw the first letter still wasn't done, but I figured no biggie since the deadline was extended. I just emailed a friendly email double-checking that she would be able to meet the Jan. 15th deadline for the other school. She wrote back that it would get done. On January 16th when I found out it hadn't been done, I figured it would be done within a few days. But just to be sure I hadn't slipped off her radar, I wrote her an email letting her know it was still listed as incomplete, and asking if she needed anything from me to get it done. She wrote back that she thought it was done. That's the last I have heard from her. I've written her emails, and she hasn't responded. I wrote her one more panicked email a couple days ago, but I still tried to show how grateful I am and keep it friendly. I followed it up this morning with a copy of the application I just sent to the school with the extended deadline, and the essay I wrote for the Jan. 15th deadline school. As I said in one of my emails, I feel badly pestering her, but her letter is a really important part of my application. This is the thing. I am applying at schools that require two academic references, and she is my ONLY. My undergraduate department had 100% turnover since the time I left, and she was the only professor I was able to find. If she doesn't send her letter, I have a backup, but it isn't an academic reference. There is a lot riding on this letter. And when should I call it quits and use my backup, knowing that my backup while a positive letter will really be less than ideal in terms of completing my packet? How long can I realistically wait, knowing that decisions will be posted March 15th at these schools?

My advice is for folks who apply to programs that don't routinely do interviews or don't require interviews. These schools usually state that you can meet with an admissions staff person, have an "informational session," or request an interview. It all means the same thing, and it is a great idea to do it because it is a chance to make a positive, memorable impression in the admissions department. When I first requested to attend an informational session, I had no idea what I was walking into. I didn't know whether I should treat it like an interview or use the opportunity to ask admissions questions. It also is typically done in small groups, so I was surprised to be the one and only person who signed up for the session slot I did. My suggestions are: Before anything, schedule your first interview at the school at which you have the least at risk, whether it is because they have a high admissions rate or because it is your safety or whatever. 1. Treat it like an interview. Dress up, but not too dressy. If you are wondering, yes, people apparently often wear suits to these things...at least in my field. 2. Make arrangements ahead of time for parking and still leave yourself an hour to park unless you are going someplace nearly guaranteed to have parking, and then still give yourself a good 45 minutes because you never know. 3. DON'T-- I repeat do NOT-- use this as a time to ask admissions questions. At one school I was told, "we don't advise people on how to make a better application!" Instead, use this opportunity to build a positive relationship with the admissions department, to make yourself known, so when you call back with your questions, they'll have a reason to be helpful. 4. Try to think up questions to ask them about the school, even if you were like me and did tons of research. Use questions as an opportunity to share about yourself in a positive light. 5. By the time you get to scheduling interviews, you are sure to be feeling insecure. You probably will no longer have a clear view of your strengths, and your vision will be obscured by the real or imagined strengths of all the other prospective candidates you are going up against. It's part of the application process. Before your interview, try to take all your thoughts about the other prospective students, box them up, and put them away in a closet inside your mind. Talk to the folks who are writing your letters of recommendation, and ask them why they are recommending you. Use the most unique, positive reasons, and practice natural ways to build them into a conversation about the school. Practice, practice. Have a practice interview with a couple folks you know. 6. Since these are schools that don't really have "interviews," you won't be aided by a series of questions. Instead, they are likely to approach the whole thing as a get-to-know you conversation. Trust me, it is way easier to have interview questions. Since you won't have the crutch of being asked questions, instead, practice small talk that leads to big talk (more meaningful aspects of your hopes for study and your interest in the school). 7. Don't try to show off your intelligence. I was at an open-house in which an undergraduate student who was a prospective grad student was asking the most academic possible questions. It came off as contrived and I swear I saw a faculty member nearly roll her eyes. If you tend to speak like that, or think you might have a tendency to show-off, practice sounding natural at least. 8. One admissions staff member told me that the students who get in at *any* school are the ones that are well-balanced...confident, but not overly so.

Update: I called two of the schools today and they basically said my answers mattered little. They each have their own system of awards and they don't really look at anything on the FASFA except those items which help them qualify the need for award.

I should clarify that I made sure to apply for at least one school/program that is known for extremely generous funding including stipends. One more school/program is just second to that. The other two schools are not well known for funding that includes stipends, but they are more working-student friendly. I know I am a good candidate at both schools for generous financial aid. Edited to add: P.S. From one student to another whose family situation was unique when they went off to undergrad (I was emancipated at 16), here's to the fellowship of perserverance!

Here is my situation. I am a mom hoping to head off to grad school. I am working on my FASFA, which I must finish within a few days to meet the financial aid application deadlines of one of the schools to which I am applying. Possibly important info: I work full time currently and support a family as such. I do not have other sources of income. I am unsure of how much I will work while going to school. My job is definitely my current career, and it will be hard to leave, but I worry a great deal about juggling family, school, and my work all at once. I am well aware that with my return to school, things are changing. Whether and how much I work will be almost entirely dependent on funding. If I do work, I'd like to stay in my current job, even though I'll have to negotiate going to part time. I have a great deal of unfinished business in this job, and I may even get a small but helpful amount of assistance with my schooling costs. In terms of the IRS, I can claim two dependent children and one adult dependent on my taxes. As a result of a poor decision a couple years ago, I am "house poor." My housing costs are very low for my area but still way too high even with my full time income. It is highly unlikely we could sell the house at this time and re-coup the costs we paid a couple years ago. We'd definitely lose money, which will throw away a great deal of previous investment that got us here. It is somewhat unlikely, but not entirely out of the question, that we could rent out the house for most of what we owe monthly in the mortgage. We definitely couldn't include maintenance costs in all that. In accordance with many of the above factors, I have applied only to four schools that are all within a commuting distance. Two are an hour-and-a-half away. One is two and a half hours away (would take the train and use the time to do school work most likely). One is several states away but in a modified residency program in which I would go to intensive lectures through all of January, but the rest of the year I could stay at home while doing my reading and writing. I absolutely can't take loans out for school. If I have to put this off a number of years as a result, than so be it (though I may be crushed). I am entering a field that does not promise jobs and doesn't pay well. Yet it is my call. If I was young and had no children, or at least wasn't tied to a house that was bleeding me dry each month, I might think differently about loans. For now, I have to get full non-loan funding or drop the whole matter. So two questions have me stumped on the FASFA, and I want to know what would be the most advantageous responses... 1. Am I interested in work-study, loans, and TEACH? Okay, TEACH seems easy to rule out because I am not studying in the field of education. Loans are out because I simply can't go there with my situation. Work-study is trickier. I have read online that it is best to check that I AM interested in work-study because I can always turn down work-study offers but if I say "no" now and change my mind later, they might not be available. However, if I do continue working in my current job, I don't want to get offers from schools that are constructing their financial aid package for me *around* work-study that I very well may end up having to turn down (and then what?). It seems that if the school wants me, wouldn't they construct a package based on what I can do? And if I say I can't do work-study, and they really want me, wouldn't they offer more of the other types of assistance? I'd like to get the best first offers possible. 2. Then there is the question, for each school, on where I will live...on or off campus. Well, again, it depends on so much about which I currently have no information. When I am filling out the FASFA, it seems like saying on-campus might result in a better package offer from each schools. But when I am filling out the university specific financial aid application, I am actually needing to ask them to take into consideration-- about my needs-- the way we are being bled by this mortgage, you know, and the fact that I've got this whole little family situation here where I can't necessarily just "up and move." So now what?

...and that was back in the day when the test was only $105. Also, I laughed because Harvard Divinity School was the first among the schools listed in the link as not requiring the GRE. For the first time this year, they are requiring GRE scores for applications to all programs. I was at an HDS open house and one student asked a faculty member what she thought of Harvard's reputation for elitism. The faculty member said "the process is totally blind," and explicitly stated that the admissions committee wouldn't know if someone is, for example, a Rockefeller. The whole conversation seemed to me to be an excellent demonstration of how racism and classism are systemic, subtle, and insidious issues. Of course, the process is "blind" on the surface. But attendance at expensive well-known universities for undergraduate studies, likelihood of having recommendation letters from prestigious folks who have some connection to Harvard, as well as things like ability to take the GRE more than once have race and class implications that go beyond whether the admissions committee tries to ignore last names. The denial of systemic racism and classism coming from a Harvard Divinity faculty member was pretty depressing.

How did you do it?

Okay, I am looking now in the graduate journal of Harvard Divinity School, and I see citations in this format, if I am reading them correctly: Number Author, title in italics, ed. editor name or trans. translator name (Publication city : Publisher, year), page # Which format is that?

Oh, good. Thanks!

For the free ones, do I have to name the school(s) before starting the exam, or will I get a chance to name the school(s) immediately after finishing the exam (with initial scoring visible)? There is one school that would probably strongly prefer it, but most in this field don't ask for GRE scores or comment about it at all.

How does this work? As I understand it, before the test one must name the schools to which the GRE scores should be sent. However, only one of the programs to which I am applying requires the GRE. For the other programs, it is optional. Clearly if my scores are good (praying here), I will want the scores sent to all schools. However, if my scores are not good, I will want them sent only to the program where it is a requirement for the application. Can I wait until after I see the scores to name the schools? Some of the scores come in on test day, correct? Should I base my decision on those scores?

I am applying to two schools with "preferred" deadlines in early January, and two with rolling admissions (but I plan to get these done at the same time so I can apply offers from all four schools at once). I have set the end of December/first days in January as my push to get it all in date. I'd like to submit a week or so before the deadline, if I can manage, just in case there are any technical problems.

Sounds like there is some variation. Anyone else want to chime in to break the tie LOL?

I am switching fields from public health, so please forgive my ignorance. In religious studies, what form of citation/what writing style is typically used?

I think that is wise. Hard to swallow, I imagine, but sounds like you are being level-headed and smart.