Sigaba

Please consider the benefits of going here http://library.uvm.edu/collections/theses?search_type=dept&dept=33 and there https://digitalrepository.unm.edu/hist_etds/ and finding theses supervised by potential PIs and then finding out where graduate students went next. As an alterative, you could contact each program's DGS and ask questions centered around outcomes.

Hey, @BrotherB. Welcome to the GradCafe. You may find more information in the History forum. There's also a forum for Anthropology. Generally, your age should not be an issue in and of itself. As a holder of an endowed chair said to me, "History is an old [person's] game." By that, he meant that one doesn't enter one's prime as a historian until one's fifties. I would be less worried about your GPA because there's only so much you can do about it. I'd be more concerned about having professors willing to write strong LORs (letters of recommendation) on your behalf, a well crafted SOP (statement of purpose), and a writing sample that reflects your skills as an aspiring academic historian.

Please clarify what you mean by "structured" and "unstructured." And what was the nature of the "onboarding"?

Hey, @kaw You might be better served were you to pose your question in this forum. https://forum.thegradcafe.com/forum/48-mathematics-and-statistics/

To @jpbends's point, the "received wisdom" of this forum is that one should not pursue an unfunded terminal master's degree in history unless one has deep pockets. AFIAK, this guidance is more word of mouth/rule of thumb than the outcome of qualitative or quantitative research. The rigors being in a master's program while having to worry about funding and your applications for a doctoral program could limit what you get out of that program in terms of your development as an academic historian? Will professors care enough to bounce you off the walls so that you grow or will they just nod and smile with dollar signs in their eyes when you speak? Also, if you earn a master's at a program and then go on to a doctoral program, you'll most likely end up having to jump through many of the same hoops all over again--up to the point where you could earn a second master's in history. What are the alternatives? Maybe consider enrolling in a program in which you can earn a degree or even a certificate in what will be your outside field as a doctoral student. Maybe this path could center on developing a skill that will help you get part time work during the summers or full time work if you ultimately decide that things are as bad in the House of Klio as many say. Or, if you're not an Americanist, you could enroll in a language program that will allow you to knock out a requirement or two in a doctoral program.

Do what you can to pivot towards the sensibilities of an academic historian as soon as possible. Your UG GPA, your success rate in previous cycles, and the rankings of where you applied are not very useful to you. What kind of history do you want to do? How might your research impact existing historiographical debates of your specific field, your area/time period, and the overall profession? How do you see your career as an academic unfolding over the next thirty years? <==Talking about these kinds of questions is likely going to draw more initial interest than your backstory from academics.

Before you accept or decline, please consider the resources at your disposal for performing a vigorous due diligence for each of your potential options. Please way the benefits and challenges (not pros and cons) of each option. FWIW, The way I see it, you have at least five centered around attending graduate school defer accept with intent to push through to the doctorate with your intended fields accept with the intent to reassess after earning a masters with your intended fields accept with the intent to earn a master's degree while (covertly) developing skills for a job outside of history. You could use the outside field requirement to develop a skill in data science or project management. Just make sure that the skill isn't something with a very limited shelf life. accept with the intent to earn a doctorate with fields that will help you get a job outside of the Ivory Tower. As an example, if your top 10 school's name starts with a Y or a H or a P or a J, and your interests are anywhere adjacent to security studies/grand strategy you could put together a path of study that leads to a job with .GOV or .MIL For options in the private sector, I recommend that viable alternatives should comparable favorably to what you'd be giving up by not going to graduate school. That is, you have an offer of "guaranteed" underemployment with health insurance and great amenities (like the library) during an interval of intensifying great power rivalry, economic uncertainty, a pandemic that doesn't care if people think it should be classified as an endemic, political turbulence. Please also take a look at your theory that you're overthinking things. To what extent is "over thinking" a trait that that has kept you out of bad situations or a potential character flaw that has led you to walking away from opportunities for personal fulfilment and success. The latter can really become a grind if left unchecked. Or so I've heard. Please do consider talking to your professors candidly about your ambivalence. Before initiating such a conversation, make sure that you're going to be able to speak frankly about your hopes, your fears, and your understanding of their expectations. (On this last point, I think that @AP will prove to be right. I think that your professors like you personally.)

I think that you should confer with your professors. If you leave your program now, will their disappointment impact the quality of LORs they will write on your behalf as you look for work? What happens if you end up competing for these kinds of positions against applicants who the same academic degrees and career goals--and doctorates as well?

IME it depends upon the way the funds are disbursed. Sometimes taxes are withheld, sometimes it is assumed that the recipient is putting money aside to cover tax liabilities later.

As long as it was made clear that Han shot first, this sounds like a promising topic.

It's unfortunate that you continue to take things in this direction. It's not so much that I'm concerned about my reputation. It's that I am looking for ways to avoid responding to you in a tone similar to yours. If you want to continue going down this path of personal characterizations, shoot me a private message and we can figure something out. Otherwise, I urge you to consider the benefits of not attempting to denigrate my intellect or my character. IRT the topic of this thread, let me try once again to take things in a different direction. Klio is a hearbreaker. How each person deals with that heartbreak is different and how each person deals with the pain can change over time. For now, I'm dealing with mine by taking responsibility for what I could have controlled. I've shared my thoughts with a couple of professors, including a person in a position to make changes in his department. Beyond that, I'm working on sublimating a shifting constellation of thoughts and feelings about the historical profession and my experiences in graduate school.

I would like to think that we respect each other enough not to resort to making assumptions about views on topics unrelated to our comments on the topic of professional academic history. Your deployment of conjecture under the guise of logical appearances is bad form. I would prefer that you ask clarification if my comments are unclear rather than attempting to put words in my mouth or thoughts in my head.

@KinOfKafka, if you ever circle back to this thread, take a look at the History forum. There you will find conversations about the benefits and challenges of applying to doctoral programs with a B.A. as well as information on how aspiring graduate students can navigate an application season. Two points worth mentioning here. First, if you are offered admission to a graduate program with a B.A. alone, you will almost certainly have to earn a master's degree before reaching candidacy for your doctorate. You may have the opportunity to earn your M.A. by passing your qualifying exams but if you're in it for the Ivory Tower life, you may decide to produce a thesis or report. Second, the study of academic history can be expensive. Even if you earn lucrative funding packages, fellowships, and grants, there are no true "free rides." Even if you're extraordinarily disciplined when it comes to spending money, brew your own coffee, and live at the interlibrary loan counter, there are going to be "life happens" moments and dozens (if not hundreds) of books and articles you have to have in your permanent possession.

I feel attacked. I feel misunderstood. I feel like you didn't read my comments and instead launched into an airing of your grievances with me as your straw man. How about that. Before I put my meticulously written hurt feelings report in the circular file, I'll offer a clarification and ask a couple of questions. Here's the clarification so that there's no confusion about what I'm saying. I'm saying that I'm responsible for the choices that I made as an undergraduate (not working hard enough on the fundamental skills I would need as a grad student) and as a graduate student (not learning how to look before leaping). Yes, I can point to pivotal instances where I wish this professor or that one or that one had been more professional but those let downs were the products of my choices. Here are the questions. If should not be an individual's responsibility to develop resources and skills to find gainful employment upon leaving school, then what should that individual's responsibilities be? (Well, since, you got a little salty in your reply, I'll rephrase. For what outcomes of your chosen path do you, @Calgacus, take responsibility?)

Unless you're using an alt account, it seems that you've been here a short while. I think that if you were to take a deep dive into @AP's post, you'd quickly find that this individual is the exact opposite of the person you're describing. To me, the issue you are having has something to do with you. I think that you're sending a clear message that if you don't get what you want when you want it and how you want it, you're going to go into attack mode. FWIW, here's something I learned. History professors (like @AP) give very subtle guidance. Why? I don't know. Maybe they don't want to blowback that can follow if the recipient doesn't like the message. I do know that sometime students mistake coaching for criticism. I also know that it sometimes takes a while (or in my case, years) to figure out the wisdom, care, and respect that goes into such guidance.

What is stopping you from starting the kind of a thread that you want? If you find a certain person's post not to your liking, why are you continuing to read them?

There's a certain irony to people saying "We're all adults here" and then attempting to dictate what others should not discuss in this thread so they can get their own emotional needs fulfilled. Change of topic. The "opportunity costs" of graduate school are not just about the money you don't make from having a full time salaried gig with health benefits and PTO. It's about the compound interest you don't earn on retirement accounts and other investments. It's about having fewer opportunities for owning a home. It's about still being in school while your friends and classmates are going onwards and upwards in their careers and personal lives. It's about understanding the declining marketability of your skillset in a society that undervalues a historian's skillset and sensibilities. (If I knew then what I know now, would I have taken that left turn to North Gate and into a computer science class rather than strolling on to Dwinelle for a class on Jacksonian America? I have no idea.) Congratulations to those who have received offers of admission. Believe it or not, in a year or two you'll be longing for the relatively certainty and stress free days of your application season. To those of you who are hitting "refresh" thirty times a second and/or are frantically reading the tea leaves of others' "I got in" posts to figure out your chances, hang in there. Please consider other (less self destructive) ways of passing the time. You could contribute to the "Lessons learned" thread. You could do your best on focusing on your current academic projects. You could assume that you're going to be in a graduate program this fall or next and start preparing for your next set of challenges. To those who have had an unsuccessful application season, consider the benefits of getting some rest before deciding your next step.

I think that you're gaslighting. You have no idea of what? How to use a moderator's control panel to split a thread? How to use the message system to reach out to other moderators to ask how to split a thread? How to start a new thread and post a link to it in this one? How to go to the Invision Community link that is at the bottom of every page of every thread in every forum at the GradCafe and click the help button? How to use Google to search for "Invision forum how to split threads" which leads one here? @LatinAmericanFootball's question was posed to you in the open to something you posted in the open. Why not answer it in the open as well? You're comfortable calling people you've never met cheaters out in the open but you want to go private when the accused holds you accountable. This is not a good look for the Grad Cafe. I think that it's incumbent upon you to answer the question openly for the sake of your personal honor and intellectual integrity to say nothing of your credibility as a moderator. Here's the thing. You and no one else started this shitshow by brushing aside concerns about the GRE, some held by actual professional academics who agree that the exam can be useful predictor of performance, and by alleging without proof that many, if not most, of the people who took the GRE at home last two years cheated. (Newer members must be brimming with confidence in this message board knowing that a moderator thinks so highly of them.) You have deliberately escalated the temperature of this thread with snide comments that reflect a lack of situational awareness. You talk about experience in a graduate program. Well, I've witnessed graduate students and professors eat alive individuals who have made comments similar to yours in this thread. It was because of these experiences that I threw you a softball by suggesting that you be more precise in your comments. Rather than hitting the ball out of the park by referencing any of the dozens of studies available, you decided to go in another direction. You have failed in your efforts to control the conversation by dismissing alternative points of view that the GRE is disadvantageous to members of under represented affiliations and maybe not in the best long term interests of professions that use the Ivory Tower as a training ground. Yes, there are studies that indicate that the GRE predicts performance by members of certain programs. Yet, you are being overly broad by suggesting, without offering a level of proof equal to your tone, that the correlation between GRE scores and performance in graduate school holds true for all affiliations in all programs. Maybe your concern is that using different metrics for future admissions will somehow undermine your performance on the GRE. (Or maybe you are concerned about who might get in if GRE scores are no longer required.) Either/or/something else entirely, you've made it clear that you like the GRE and that you believe that it serves a useful purpose in making admissions decisions. It worked for you so no need to ask if there are better ways. You've also made it clear, despite your claims of being genuinely curious, that you're not really interested in considering carefully on your own accord alternative viewpoints in a debate that will shape the life choices of aspiring graduate students for years to come. For worse and for better, this debate will continue among professional academics and decision makers in higher education regardless of your faith in GRE scores.

Then split it into a separate thread so the conversation you're trying to control can continue. Then you could answer the question posed to you by @LatinAmericanFootball

"Some" and "some" are, IMO, dismissive broad brush comments in a discussion like this one. How many is some? Some in what kinds of programs? Yes, I'm aware that there's a lot going on in this topic, which is why I prompted you to not be as glib as you were--and as you continue to be. I'll rephrase @LatinAmericanFootball's question, which you have chosen to ignore. Do you have the same level of evidence to support this claim as you insist that those who disagree with you provide? IMO, you're taking an odd tone on this topic, especially given the push back you continue to receive. It remains interesting that you just don't lay out via references the basis for your understanding of this issue because, apparently, you're busy, but insist that others prove their position to you. Also, do you bother to read profiles before you post? You question others' reading comprehension but you seem to be challenged by "ABD." But since you went there. Yes, I have been to graduate school. What I found is that "genuinely curious" people do their own research when they encounter positions that differ from their own.

If you're not already used to traffic in southern California, the drive may be something to think long and hard about. This link will take you to a Google Map of the area between UCSB and Ventura with a traffic overlay. You can use the controls at the bottom of the map to get a sense of typical traffic conditions by hour and by day. I don't make it up that way that often anymore. The last few times were for a job and the traffic was brutal heading up during the morning commute. (Some of the traffic was due to a freeway widening project but when do those actually help?) If you add on campus parking to the mix, you could be in a situation where you're going to campus hours earlier than you need just so you can compete for a parking space. All this being said, it's one of my favorite areas and the UCSB library has a surprisingly robust collection of titles in military history/military affairs. There's a Costco nearby, so you won't be lacking for the essential food groups (caffeine, sweet, fried, and pork).

Finding affordable housing may be a challenge. I'm in a FB group in which a rising senior was liquidating assets and seeking guidance on how to live out of a vehicle for an academic year. You might benefit from trying to develop options now if you think you're going to end up there, even if you have deep pockets.

@Theory007, IMO, this topic is too controversial and too important for such broad brush/blanket statements without offers of supporting evidence. https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2021-32469-001 https://arxiv.org/abs/2009.14027

Congratulations on having your abstract accepted! You could use Google to find video and photos and social media posts from previous conferences to see what others in your peer group wore and go from there. Specific affiliations within an academic discipline may go up or down a level from what you see. Unless you're absolutely sure that you're not going to experience any stress while giving your presentation, consider the benefits of making wardrobe and grooming choices that help you seem cool, calm, and collected even though you may feel uneasy.

^What ever you do, proof read... "getting" should have been "to get." ?