sklorange

It worked! I got my 1st year tuition and fees completely covered, a $10k stipend for the first year, and my $8k professional degree fees are also covered for the second year. I would still need to take out some loans for living costs, but this is SO manageable for a Berkeley degree! I am so insanely grateful that UCB pulled through!  

I was about to accept Madison today when Berkeley called me this morning! All of a sudden, they want to negotiate a deal for funding once I mentioned I was more than likely going to choose Madison's "free ride" offer. She is going to call me tomorrow at 10:30am to let me know how much she was able to secure. This is exciting. I hope it's more than just a few k! Wish me luck! 

Congratulations! This was an awesome example of you using one school's offer to get more aid from your top choice school. I get asked about this same scenario a lot. If other folks are wondering how to negotiate with a policy school to give you more aid, I wrote a blog post recently on the topic that could be useful: http://theartofapplying.com/sample-email-to-request-more-fellowship-aid/

​I am very excited to announce that I will be attending Berkeley this fall! I just got off the phone with the assistant dean, and now they offered me a deal that is completely more manageable! My 1st year fees are ALL covered, plus I get a $10k stipend. I also negotiated to get my Year 2 professional degree fees of $8k covered as well. As long as I work a GSI position during my time there, I can leave this program with a very manageable amount of debt! I really owe this to my professor who wrote a letter of recommendation for me. She taught me how to play the negotiation game with admissions regarding funding opportunities, and boy has it worked! I am so honored and excited about all of this! And I'm glad I don't have to go to Wisconsin now! Hoorah! 
 
 
 
Hey, there, I will send you a PM about this so we can see if we would be compatible enough for a living situation. I'm thinking of living north of campus (south of campus is full of undergrads and it's quite chaotic). We can talk more about this via PM. Maybe enough of us can band together to get a good deal on a house or something! 
 
 
Hello Jack, believe it or not, I know just how to feel. I had my eyes set for UCB when I graduated from high school. I was the valedictorian of my school and had a ton of extra-curriculars, so I thought for SURE they'd accept me, but they didn't. They even accepted some people from my school with significantly fewer achievements/GPA/extra-curriculars/etc. I was bitter about it, but I think admissions are sometimes not as predictable as we'd like them to be. 

To be completely honest, I think what made my application relatively strong is the fact that one of my recommenders was a woman who is very well-connected and highly regarded in education policy circles. She is even colleagues with the dean of the GSPP! I think work experience is also highly valued - more so than I originally thought. I used to think it was all just GPA and GRE scores. Honestly, my GRE scores weren't even that great. I got a 155 for verbal, 157 for quant, but I did receive a perfect score for writing (that has always been my strongest suit). I keep hearing GRE scores aren't as hefty as we make them out to be for admissions decision. Obviously, it makes an impact that you didn't totally bomb on it, but if you're in the "above average" range and can vouch for yourself about it, then you're good. I would really recommend really selling your work experience and ensuring your recommenders are top-notch (or at least one of them). 
 
If you PM me, I would be more than glad to answer more questions about the statement of purpose or anything like that. A close friend of mine used to work for a university program that helped students how to write all of those documents, so if mine were strong, it was really due to her help, and I'd be glad to share her words of wisdom. 

I am going to decline a "full ride," offer over a partial fellowship, so you can bet I have that feeling, but at the end of the day, I know the choice I made it going to be completely worth it! As much as I may hate to be in debt (only about $30k or less if I play my cards right), it is worth it to stay in the state I want to work in (California) than to have to brave the snows of Madison! 
 
But yes, I already see myself doubting my decision in subtle ways...like, "I could have my own apartment in an affordable city" and stuff like that. Just remember that in the end, you chose your actual option for a reason. You did a cost-benefit analysis (correctly, hopefully...lol) and you determined which one would be the best fit for you. Hypothetically, you'd have more regret if you made your 2nd choice option or one of the other ones. 

Sounds terrific, hearty congratulations!

​I am very excited to announce that I will be attending Berkeley this fall! I just got off the phone with the assistant dean, and now they offered me a deal that is completely more manageable! My 1st year fees are ALL covered, plus I get a $10k stipend. I also negotiated to get my Year 2 professional degree fees of $8k covered as well. As long as I work a GSI position during my time there, I can leave this program with a very manageable amount of debt! I really owe this to my professor who wrote a letter of recommendation for me. She taught me how to play the negotiation game with admissions regarding funding opportunities, and boy has it worked! I am so honored and excited about all of this! And I'm glad I don't have to go to Wisconsin now! Hoorah! 
 
 
 
Hey, there, I will send you a PM about this so we can see if we would be compatible enough for a living situation. I'm thinking of living north of campus (south of campus is full of undergrads and it's quite chaotic). We can talk more about this via PM. Maybe enough of us can band together to get a good deal on a house or something! 
 
 
Hello Jack, believe it or not, I know just how to feel. I had my eyes set for UCB when I graduated from high school. I was the valedictorian of my school and had a ton of extra-curriculars, so I thought for SURE they'd accept me, but they didn't. They even accepted some people from my school with significantly fewer achievements/GPA/extra-curriculars/etc. I was bitter about it, but I think admissions are sometimes not as predictable as we'd like them to be. 

To be completely honest, I think what made my application relatively strong is the fact that one of my recommenders was a woman who is very well-connected and highly regarded in education policy circles. She is even colleagues with the dean of the GSPP! I think work experience is also highly valued - more so than I originally thought. I used to think it was all just GPA and GRE scores. Honestly, my GRE scores weren't even that great. I got a 155 for verbal, 157 for quant, but I did receive a perfect score for writing (that has always been my strongest suit). I keep hearing GRE scores aren't as hefty as we make them out to be for admissions decision. Obviously, it makes an impact that you didn't totally bomb on it, but if you're in the "above average" range and can vouch for yourself about it, then you're good. I would really recommend really selling your work experience and ensuring your recommenders are top-notch (or at least one of them). 
 
If you PM me, I would be more than glad to answer more questions about the statement of purpose or anything like that. A close friend of mine used to work for a university program that helped students how to write all of those documents, so if mine were strong, it was really due to her help, and I'd be glad to share her words of wisdom. 

Congratulations man!  This must be so insanely exciting for you!  That's wonderful that they came through for you!  Goldman would be a wonderful place to study for two years (especially given your career goals!).  Again, congratulations!

Congratulations! That's amazing! I hope you can contain the excitement as you head to Cal!

It worked! I got my 1st year tuition and fees completely covered, a $10k stipend for the first year, and my $8k professional degree fees are also covered for the second year. I would still need to take out some loans for living costs, but this is SO manageable for a Berkeley degree! I am so insanely grateful that UCB pulled through!  

Update: I got a call from the FinAid people this morning! It looks like they are wanting me to accept their offer, so they are looking into whether they can provide me with a fellowship! I told them about my free ride offer from Madison, and though she was trying to highlight the negative points of living in Wisconsin, she did sell the program really well. I talked to Andrew (from this thread) who put me at ease with the GSIship concerns I had, so I think I'll be going to Berkeley! I have a phone call tomorrow with the FinAid person, so I'll see what they say.
 
If so, us new MPP students should start getting to know each other and maybe even discuss housing options (for those who don't have anything secured). 

I was about to accept Madison today when Berkeley called me this morning! All of a sudden, they want to negotiate a deal for funding once I mentioned I was more than likely going to choose Madison's "free ride" offer. She is going to call me tomorrow at 10:30am to let me know how much she was able to secure. This is exciting. I hope it's more than just a few k! Wish me luck! 

Hey skorlange,
 
I also got full funding + stipend from Madison, and it was tempting, believe me. Instead, I took zero funding at Berkeley, and I'm very happy with that decision (I graduate next month). I can't get into my old profile, but check out my old posts on costs, etc. under state_school'10. We have somewhat similar results, it looks like. 
 
GSPP does a terrible job advertising this fact, but the program costs much, much less than the sticker price. After the first year, all domestic students get in-state tuition. If you're willing to work 15-22 hours a week as a teaching assistant, it is virtually guaranteed you can get full UC tuition remission, plus a stipend of about $1500/month. It isn't like Michigan, where a few people here and there get it; every single one of my classmates that wanted a position got one (maybe one or two won't admit rejection, but like 75% of us get positions along the way, and I think about half work all four semesters).
 
That leaves a few thousand per semester of the professional program fees. Housing is expensive, but with roommates you can bring it down to $800 a month. Bottom line, I would anticipate a cost more like $20-$40k max for the two years. I worked all four semesters, and it's definitely doable. I also got involved with a variety of other activities, and still have time to spend with my wife so it doesn't mean 80 hour weeks. More like 50/60s during midterms and finals. 
 
I'm happy to chat more, and set up a call if you want. And keep negotiating with the financial aid, I regret giving up too soon. You might be able to get $5-10k, but even if you don't, you should still consider it affordable.
 
Andrew (akndrew at gmail)

Sklorange, send you a PM with more detailed thoughts, but a few things to add to the thread that might be useful to others:
 
-For anyone looking at taking on debt for grad school who is pretty confident they want to work in public service afterwards, it's worth looking into the federal income-based repayment and public service loan forgiveness programs. If you have eligible (direct federal) loans and sign up for IBR, you pay back your loans based on a % of your income. The downside of this is that if this amount is lower than what you'd pay under a standard repayment plan, it can take longer (perhaps much longer) to repay and you'll end up paying a lot more total in interest. However, this is where the loan forgiveness part comes in: if you make 120 payments under IBR while working in a public service job (government or nonprofit registered in the US), under the public service loan forgiveness plan you can have any remaining debt forgiven. There are a lot of details here I'm glossing over, such as what 120 payments means, what loans are eligible, and what kind of organization you have to work for, so I'd highly recommend doing further research on your own.
 
-Right now, there is no cap on the amount of debt that can be forgiven at the 10-year mark. HOWEVER, there is a proposal in the President's budget plan from last month to cap the total amount of possible forgiveness at around $58,000. (Remember, this is forgiveness on any remaining loans after you've made 10 years of payments.)
 
-My take: Thanks to the IBR system, you don't have to worry as much about going broke due to your monthly loan payments, and if you're sure you want to work in public service then the PSLF combined with IBR could be a really great option. BUT this does NOT mean you should take on an unlimited amount of debt. Even though there doesn't yet exist a cap on forgiveness, I'd bet a lot that in the 12-ish years until those on this thread are eligible for forgiveness, a cap will be set. So you shouldn't take out $200K in debt counting on paying off $40K of it slowly over 10 years under IBR and having $160K forgiven - I doubt that will happen. But if you're considering whether to take on moderate five-figure debt, and don't mind 10-15% of your discretionary income (again, do some research on the government sites to see what that means) going towards loan repayments for 10 years or so, this seems like a great option to make a bit of grad school debt more manageable. 
 
Resources:
IBR - http://studentaid.ed.gov/repay-loans/understand/plans/income-based
PSLF - http://studentaid.ed.gov/repay-loans/forgiveness-cancellation/charts/public-service

How will it pay for itself?  If you mean it is 'worth it' in terms of experiences, networks etc, then maybe, but that doesn't translate into the cold hard cash you need to pay back your loans. The Harvard name won't get you higher pay for government work (see, for example, numerous posts on this board talking about govt hiring scales), and most non-profits in the field the OP is interested in don't have spare cash to throw around just for prestige - it might get you a couple of thousand extra in salary if you're lucky, but that's not going to make much of a dent in $100K+ of debt. HKS might get you better access to the top consulting firms, which will give you serious cash if that's what you want to do, but that's not what most people who do MPP degrees want to do.  

It's very personal and depends a bit on where you are in life and your willingness to be in debt for a LONG time.  For me, having between $40-50k in loans with a standard starting government salary ($50k-ish) is manageable because (not having a ton of other expenses) I am able to make noticeable dents in my balance.  A $50k balance accrues about $225 in interest every month with the current 5.41% interest rate, and the monthly payment on a standard 10-year repayment plan is $540.  With a salary of $50k your take-home pay might be $2,700-$2,900 each month depending on taxes, health insurance and retirement contributions.  If you are a single person without a lot of other expenses, you can likely make the $540 payment and maybe some extra, and still save a bit of money each month/afford a car payment.
 
If you have a loan balance of $80k, the standard monthly payment for the 10-year plan is $860 (and of that $360-ish is interest starting out). I imagine that would really be tough for most people on a $50k salary, as that starts to really crowd out any room for savings, car payments, retirement, etc.  And yes, your salary will increase some, but you'll likely not want to throw all your raises into your loans (maybe you'll want a better apartment, kids, a house, save more for retirement, etc.).
 
The income-based repayment plans do allow you to make payments that are manageable no matter what your balance is, and that gives you the option of prioritizing other things.  Student loans are great in terms of the flexibility in repayment.  The problem is that if these payments don't cover at least a very large portion of the interest, then your loan balance will be growing significantly as time goes by, which is scary.  Unless you actually miss payments your credit score will be fine, and you may be able to get loan forgiveness after 10 or 20/25 years through Public Service Loan Forgiveness/IBR, but relying on these programs being available a decade+ from now can feel stressful, and the debt may keep you from things like qualifying for mortgage.
 
I am very, very glad I attended the school that offered me more funding as my other option was to take on six-figure debt.  Of course I wish I had less/no debt ($50k is still a very large balance), but I absolutely believe that the investment was worthwhile.  I agree with others that if the choice is between a big-name school and six-figure debt versus a another reputable school with lots of funding, hands down take the funding.

You might be able to overcome some of the geography concerns with a summer internship between your first and second year.  If you do an education internship in California that summer, that could help you get your foot in the door in California. 

The Wisconsin offer is definitely hard to pass up, but it may constrain your ability a bit to be in California for a career after you graduate. Obviously, Berkley/UCLA/USC are all much better-placed for this. It sounds like UCLA will come through with more $$ for you, so [in my opinion] you should definitely ask for an extension from your top choices, explaining the situation to them. Obviously Wisconsin won't offer any more $, but just explain that you need more time to think through the huge move to WI and all, they should be understanding. If getting an extension is tricky, then ask UCLA if they can come through with anything quicker. 
 
If nothing changes from your current predicament, then I'd probably opt for Wisconsin and a debt-free degree. But I suppose the sticking point is location. How set are you on California? If you feel that better name recognition/network/internship or part-time opportunities in CA are worth some debt, then UCLA could be worth some debt. The general oft-repeated rule is not to take on more debt than your starting annual salary will be, so if you can keep loans under $25k a year (assuming your job post-grad will pay $50k), then one of the CA schools could be worth it to you. 
 
Also, Wisconsin's cold. My parents moved to Milwaukee from the South when I was a baby, and hated the weather so much they went back after just 2 winters. They've always said the people were nice though, so there's that. 

I'm in the same boat - super exciting to be admitted, but no fellowship funding makes it seem just a little crazy to go, especially when I've got good fellowship offers elsewhere. I've had a tough time deciding though, because it does seem like a great program. 

So, I tend to bang this drum quite a bit here, but I personally think that it's not wise to take out a lot of debt for an MA/IR, MPP, or MPA because the salaries in those jobs aren't that high and the rankings don't matter nearly as much as they might for an MBA or JD, for example.  A big part of my decision to attend LBJ was financial. I was accepted to a couple of DC schools, but with little financial aid. Between the higher tuition and higher cost of living in DC, I was looking at about $80,000 more over two years to go to school in DC. As much as I wanted to go to school in DC, I knew that I wanted to go in to government or NGO work and I just couldn't bring myself to spend $80k more to be in DC. On the other hand, between financial aid, working, my savings, and the lower cost of living in Austin, I graduated from LBJ debt-free which was a great feeling to have when I graduated since it meant that I had more options and didn't have to take the highest paying or first job that came along.

If you're interested in working for the federal government, where you go to school will have very little effect on your starting salary. The salary determination process is more or less an equation of education + work experience = GS level X, step Y. The brand name of a school might make a difference in opening doors at NGOs and make a small salary difference, but probably not a big enough difference to offset much extra debt since salaries are generally lower in the NGO/non-profit sector. If you've got your heart set on consulting, then the extra debt to attend a more prestigious program might be worth it, but if you change your mind partway through the program you could be stuck with consulting anyway to pay off the debt. If you come in to the masters as a mid-career student with a lot of work experience though, you could have a higher salary after graduation, so a larger debt payment might not be as big of a problem.

After graduation, I started working with the federal government at a little over 55K in DC, which is more or less average for someone with a master's and a couple of years of work experience. After taxes, social security, etc, I was left with a little less than 40k/year to live on. That's manageable in DC especially since I'm single, but if I had a large student loan payment like the $600-$900/mo payments you can incur if you take out $60K-$80K of loans or had a family, it would be really tough to live in the DC area on that. My salary has gone up a bit in the almost 5 years since I graduated, but it would still be tough if I had a huge loan payment every month. Without debt, I'm able to live comfortably, though not lavishly, save for future needs, and put away some money towards a down payment on a condo/house later on.

Also, being in DC can give you a leg up in networking, especially for the private sector and NGOs, but all of the big policy schools will have a decent alumni network in DC and the big employers of MPP/MPA/IR grads will hit the big policy schools. We had recruiters at LBJ from a lot of government agencies, several consulting firms, and many different international and DC-based NGO/Non-profits.  People in my graduating class went on to work at any number of federal agencies, UN orgs, think tanks, get PhDs, etc. and going to school outside of DC didn't really seem to hold anyone back.  So, while I was initially a little apprehensive about going to school outside of DC, I don't really think it hurt me in the long run. I got 2 great federal internships and then was eventually hired by one of them. Now, I'm in DC and have been able to take advantage of the LBJ alumni network here and build my own network through my current job and living in DC.
 
I'm not sure how much debt you'd be looking at, but 100k in loans with a 10-year repayment at 6.8% interest equals a $1,150/mo payment and, with the interest you actually end up paying $138k.  That's a house in some parts of the country and at least a decent chunk of a condo in a place like DC.  The opportunity cost is higher because if you invested that $1,150/mo in a fund with a 10% annual return, you'd have $237k after 10 years.  Even if your investment only hit 5% a year, you'd still end up with $179k in the bank after 10 years.  So, not only are you paying $138k, you're not saving or investing that same money, so you're losing out on interest and investment gains.

It's ultimately a personal decision, since everyone has a different tolerance for debt, but I generally don't think that a lot of debt is advisable or necessary for most MPP/MPA/IR grads since salaries are not usually that high. I also think that the name of the school, while not irrelevant, is not as important in the public and NGO/Non-profit sector as it is in the private sector. So, paying big bucks for a name brand is not as important as it might be for law schools or MBA programs. For example, a person that I met at an admitted student day for LBJ when I was trying to decide where to go ultimately turned down LBJ to go to HKS. We now work for the same employer, doing the same job with the same promotion potential, and my salary's actually a bit higher because I had a little more work experience before being hired. He has a ton of debt that he's trying to manage, but I don't.

I also think that, if you don't have a good match between program fit and financial aid, it is worth taking another year to work on your application package and/or research other schools. If you got in to top ranked program X with no funding, chances are good you'll get in there again or at least in to a similar program if you apply later. In the mean time, you can do things to improve your application package like trying to boost your GRE, improve your resume, improve your statements of purpose, etc. I would also strongly consider casting a wider net when you apply to schools the second time around because maybe you can get in to slightly lower ranked school Y with decent funding and have similar career prospects after graduation.  

I would really love to go to Goldman, but I didn't get funding. I remember other folks in the same situation posting in previous years about how they planned to make it work financially with the fee remissions that come from graduate assistantships. This seems really risky to me, given that they're not guaranteed (and Berkeley is an expensive part of the country to live in). Is anyone else in the same boat here? Thoughts?

Hi everyone, and congratulations to everyone who got in. Out of curiosity, how are you guys planning on paying for this? It's an awfully big price tag for no-funding (I'm in the same boat), and having recently lived in the Bay Area, I know the cost of living is no joke. Are people planning on taking out massive loans?