engguy

Frankly I didn't find this to be a very compelling SOP, but it "got 'er done," so what do I know. The first paragraph is loaded with non sequiturs, as the writer tries to pack his or her life's story into a few sentences... The mention of childhood trauma / "baptist epistemology" etc. borders on too much information -- especially with the lack of an explanation of how and why these things have shaped this person's scholarship, veers towards asking for something based on personal history. What is "scriptotheraupeutic poetry"? Honestly, I've studied poetry for 15 years and I've never heard of this. I can sort of guess what it is, but this points out another issue in the SOP, for me... the lack of mention of a single actual author this person intends to engage with (I mean besides theory). The paragraph in which the author outlines the role of each mentor / recommender strikes me as unusual and I'm not sure what to make of it. Did other people do this? Overall I'm very wary of anonymous templates / people you don't know as a model for what you're writing. There seems to be a really violent disagreement -- apparently extending to actual profs, as well -- over whether to include basic things, like personal history vs. no personal history, mention of names at the program one's applying to vs. a more general statement, etc. The best thing to do, I think, is to find the SOP of someone you actually know and trust, who's successfully applied (if possible to the program you want to apply to), use that as a jumping-off point for one of your own, and supplement it with the input of a trusted mentor. All right... I now look forward to the opprobrium of the person who posted this SOP and others jumping to his/her defense. Fire away.

-- not at all, if we're talking a funded MA vs. unfunded in an expensive city. You'll be there for two years, three max.

Let's just go back to the original post: What does that sound like to you? Honestly? Just to be clear on this: I went through this process last year. I was not wait-listed, and had my top three choices to choose from. It was agony. But at some point, as my SO pointed out, there was nothing I was going to know in a week or a few days that I didn't know already, once I had visited all three and weighed the options. More time is not going to make you feel better inside -- it will probably make you feel worse. And as others have pointed out, in the meantime there are people waiting. This is, frankly, the dark side of the grad cafe. With the wording of your OP, you have invited the brunt of the tensions that everyone's feeling on various sides of the fence. IF you are one of these people honestly weighing a decision, as I stated before, do yourself a favor: turn off the machine and make the decision in private, with friends and family who know you well and can help you and don't have any conflicting stakes in this. If you have made up your mind, end the agony and announce it. The world will not end. No one will be mad at you. And good luck. :x

@the original poster: Don't ask if you don't want this kind of response. It seems to me that you wanted reassurance /justification for your continued dithering, rather than the frank response that you got. OF COURSE you should take all the time you need to make up your mind, but sitting on offers out of a hesitation to say no is not the same thing, is it? If you really are wavering for whatever reason and however marginally, the best thing you can do is turn off your computer, don't visit the grad cafe (where people will urge you to HURRY UP), and sit with the choice that you have, according to your post, already made, for a day or two or three -- really think about it and imagine yourself there as vividly as you can. If after that, it still feels like the right decision, turn on the computer and start sending those "No, thank you"s to other programs. Nothing else that happens between now and April 15 is really going to make a difference, is it?

impossible to say, mon. an mfa from iowa is a nice thing to have in yr back pocket, but no guarantee of a job. i've heard funding can be tight there once you hit year three. i moved on to the phd from an mfa because i saw most of my classmates lucky to get adjunct work, let alone anything resembling a TT position. my best advice is to go with whatever allows you to do the work you want to do NOW, and let the future take care of itself.

Why does the choice have to be either-or? Without knowing what this prestigious MFA program is, it's hard to say, but it seems to me that MFA degrees are increasingly becoming a dime a dozen. You should not count on getting an academic position based on an MFA, certainly not outside the states. Why not wait to see what the PhD offer is, and if it's not good, do the MFA and then re-apply to PhD programs in a few years? If, on the other hand, you are dead set on putting yourself on the market within the next five years, PhD is the way to go -- again, without knowing the specifics of your situation, exactly what field you're in and what kind of position you're looking for down the road.

Thanks, wanker. I'm assuming this person knows something about the environment of the school (and it's actually a wonderful campus, IMO) -- and what a CS major has to say about the English program at WSU, I really couldn't tell ya. Go back to your cubicle and crunch code. :arrow:

quick thoughts on this: i've been following this person's posts for a while now -- to the extent that time and attention allow -- and to me they just seem provocative to no real end (so, essentially harmless, though hardly as amusing on the one hand or innocent on the other as some have urged us to believe, and as kfed aptly pointed out). what is this space? an online forum for applicants to grad school / those who have already been accepted / those already attending. it is -- perhaps -- a sort of virtual graduate seminar, albeit one that is open to people of vastly different disciplines, skill and maturity levels -- an imaginary, anonymous "room" where people on both sides of the grad acceptance fence get to exchange information and ideas. are there discursive "rules" at play here? expectations that we have in terms of -- well, terms, sensitivity, engagement? (i think of this too because of a dispute that broke out last year over someone who insisted on using text-speak in his or her messages.) certainly, some of the language, ideas, and "jokes" that have been tossed into the mix are not of the sort that i would enjoy engaging with in an actual graduate seminar -- hence, i think, the wish stated by the previous poster "i hope you don't get in." but does that hold for this space as well? i don't know. easy enough to just ignore it and move on, i think; but at the same time, if someone actually takes offense, not out of line to speak up.

OK, fair enough... If the program states outright that they don't take many people with MAs, obviously you should take that seriously. Likewise, there are programs that state outright that they don't tend to take people from their own MA program, which makes more sense. However, unless the MA profs have some indisputable inside knowledge of the adcom process at this or that school, i'd take it with a grain of salt. I've just seen a) too many people I know personally with MAs / MFAs get into top programs with no problem (including Iowa, which is supposedly one of those schools); seriously bad advice thrown around on this forum that supposedly comes from professors -- like mentioning names of faculty on your SOP is "name-dropping" and should be avoided, etc. --; c) some heavy-duty rationalizing from people who didn't get in. Bottom line is, if you have a strong enough app., all these issues tend to fall by the wayside.

this strikes me as one of those unprovable "facts" people tell themselves to explain why they didn't get into this or that program. sorry, but having an MA is not going to make you LESS competitive. other myths that tend to crop up this time of year: being "too old" will be held against you; being "too young" is a handicap; having a partner will hold you back; etc. etc.

I can PM you if you want but I'm not going to post my life's story for all to see. Let me just say this: I was accepted to a top-20 prog last spring and I ended up turning it down. It's not that I think rankings are bunk, there were just other things more important to me. It's certainly worth your while to check into placement, but if you're worried about getting a job NOW, going into the phd -- in this economic climate -- well, I don't know what to say. In other words, things are so bad imo that you should look at where you'll be happiest and do it for the love of the field (and not worry about finding a job, which may be a very long time coming anyway). Besides, you may be surprised to learn that some programs far down the USN rankings have much better placement rates than those higher up. ' What was the issue with UCSC's library? Well, you'll see for yourself. It's already pretty small, and while I was there they were engaged in a multi-year project of some sort wherein a great deal of their holdings weren't even available. There was talk of a partnership agreement with Stanford's library, but -- let's be honest here -- how often are you going to shoot up to Stanford just to use the library? At any rate, as I look back on it now, all things being equal, I would have gladly gone to Santa Cruz. As I said before, it's a lovely campus and I really enjoyed meeting with and talking to the faculty and current students. Best of luck with this, both of you...

I don't know why the OP is so down on UCSC... I visited there last spring and thought it was wonderful. Not sure what you want to study, but they have a nice range of faculty that covers pretty much everything, as far as I could tell. Some very bright lights and big names, like Nathaniel Mackey and Ty Miller, along with strong profs in various fields. Also, it's a gorgeous campus in a very cool town, public trans is supposed to be excellent, etc. They're also very serious about wanting you to learn a language, which I thought was a good thing -- they have mandatory intensives during the summer, and one grad student we met was already teaching latin to undergrads for his TAship. Drawbacks: the library was less than impressive, and the cost of living is high, considering what they give you. They also have a funky 3-semester system which didn't sound too appealing to me. As for whether to go to a funded PhD vs. unfunded MA at your top choice, I couldn't say. I wouldn't do it, but that's just me. If there's something specific you want to do at UC that you absolutely can't do anywhere else, then maybe. Otherwise, what's the point?

@verito: since the offer is unfunded, they may allow you to defer. i would explain the situation and see what they say. try first going through whatever prof you've been in contact with and see if this type of thing is done... in the meantime you could work and perhaps buff up your app and try for a funded offer. not knowing what kind of phd yr SO is doing, perhaps there's an opportunity for some overlap while h/she finishes the dissertation. good luck with this, it's a tough one.

OK, sure. I believe some schools may have a cut-off for GRE scores, and in my haste to respond I did not really take into account that you're talking Ivies here... But to go 0-14, I would seriously look beyond GREs. There is no possible way that a 650 verbal kept this person out of 14 schools, unless they were the 1-14 ranked schools in the country. That's not the impression I got. By all means, OP, as long as you're doing everything else, retaking can't be a bad idea. But again I would stress the writing, and any specific feedback you can get from friendly adcommers who looked at your file.

Are you joking? OP, do not listen to this hoohah. Granted, I did score in the high 700s, but I personally know at least two people who scored sub-600 verbal and got into top-notch programs. I was going to urge you to do the opposite of what this person's suggesting -- don't bother retaking either the subject or the general test. There's a separate thread about reapplying somewhere down the English/lit heading; scroll through that to see more on the relative value of the GRE. And if you don't believe me, contact the programs themselves (those that rejected you, those you might apply to in the future) and ask them how important the scores are. I'll bet dollars to donuts it's far down the list of what they look at. If you are going to spend time on something, I would recommend retooling your whole SOP and writing sample. Make it specific; make it scholarly; make it sing. Nothing else that you do will have more impact on your admission fortunes. In that vein, it might be good to do an MA, but if you have the kind of support you say at your current school and you're impatient to get going, ask if you can sit in on an MA course in your area -- enter the discourse, do the research, write a paper, etc. And good luck. If you really want to do this, it will happen.

my opinion: at this point, in this economy, you have to really love literature and be totally invested in your field in order to pursue a phd. forget the idea of a job afterwards -- not only is it too far away to think about, if you pay any attention to the news about higher education in the humanities, you will never find a TT position, anyway. the school i'm currently in -- not a top 10 by any means -- just interviewed and turned down several applicants from ivies for entry-level professorships. being in my first year right now, i can say that it's absolutely the hardest work i've ever done in my life and i've wondered at least a hundred times if i really want to do this. and yes, despite a very good financial package, i'm poor, and the whole thing has been rough on my partner. so while it's perfectly understandable to have the goal of a research position at the end of all this, i think it's a very thin thread to hang four-five (more like five-six) years of hellishly hard work on.

it was not a deliberate thing -- at the time i decided to begin the application process, i did not get around to signing up for the subject test till rather late in the game. as it happened, last year they moved the test dates up, so i had already missed the deadlines by then. i signed up for the next available test, which was april, included an explanatory note in my application package, and hoped for the best. as i recall, four of the eight schools i applied to required the subject test; i got into two of them. hope that helps.

i want to chime in to agree with much of what's been said already in response to the OP. It's tempting to think that, if you've faced a lot of rejection, it has to do with your scores, which are numbers that you can see and hope to improve on. but i really wouldn't waste a lot of time sweating the GRE general and certainly not the subject test. some background on my app. process: i applied last year as a poetics / medieval student. was accepted at 5/8 schools. NOT princeton, unfortunately, to which i did apply, but i did get in to one top-20 school as a straight medievalist. at that time, i had not even taken the subject test, though it was 'required' at half the schools i applied to. things might be different this year, and i wouldn't encourage anyone to try that, but it does underscore the relative lack of importance of the subject test. (i just included a note that said i would take it at the next opportunity...) if you are going to spend five months doing something, as kfed mentioned, make it your SOP and your writing sample. everything else is secondary, if not tertiary. keep in mind that many schools only accept one-three students in a given field per semester (makes sense, if the cohort will be 10-15 people, and they want to spread you among fields they already have). your SOP / sample needs to grab the committee by the throat and really wow them. it's not that you need to be the "best" early modernist etc., but you really need to stand out from the other app's. it's in that sense, too, that the advice to find seven "no. 1" schools applies: you need to make a case that this is the only program where you can do what you want to do.

UPenn, U Chicago, and Buffalo are the three main centers for what (I'm guessing) you're going for here. On the West Coast, yes, UCSC and Berkeley would be two others -- Mackey and Lyn Hejinian, respectively. But as Minnesotan suggested, simply researching where the poets are teaching would be a great first step. In terms of actual thriving poetics programs with a fair number of students doing what you're doing, however, the first three are where I'd start. Perhaps WUSTL as well.

Accept. What the hell. They're not offering you any money, so if something better comes up down the road, it shouldn't come as a big surprise to them if you request to pull out. In fact, I doubt whether any of the usual rules would apply here, given the lack of financial obligation (on their part). One caveat is that you should keep hammering away at them re. funding. Now that you've qualified for an asst., is there a chance they could throw you one next year, or even this year if someone else declines? It's hard to believe they have their entire cohort nailed down already for the coming fall. As the previous poster mentioned, sometimes things pop up at the last minute, even a week before classes start. If they know you're in hot pursuit of this, they will (hopefully) think of you first.

here's a suggestion: in addition to asking questions -- all the above suggestions are good, by the way, though you might find that people will start avoiding your company if you start to look like too much of a pesky nerd -- keep your eyes open and be observant. watch for the following things: do the grad students have access to a decent number of computers / printers (ask to see the grad lounge and/or some offices)? does the printer/computer look like it's a million years old? what about access to office supplies / copy machine etc., just the general accessibility and up-to-datedness of things you'd want to have available? library: bring a short list of books that might be standard to your field and important to your studies. look them up at the library. see if they have them. if they're checked out, ask what the borrowing policy is and how requests are handled. if you are able to visit a class or two, pay attention to how actively the students engage in the discussion, and the general aptitude / insightfulness of their questions. you may catch some class on a bad day, but by and large this might be a good gauge of the overall level of the students, who will soon be your colleagues. don't mistake silence for wisdom. and don't be afraid to jump in yourself and ask a question or two. all of these things might seem very minor -- esp. the supplies stuff -- but, believe me, the little things will come to mean a lot when you're in there and having to dig up a stapler or print out a paper or a syllabus for your class. and it really will give you a good clue as to how organized and well-funded and basically happy the current students are. best of all, you don't have to rely on unreliable narratives or overly rosy pictures. use your eyes and ears -- picture yourself there, working and learning.

Depends. You have to be a bit more specific -- what field are you in, what's the standard deal in your field, what schools are you talking about? Not all public universities are created equal. Same with privates. Privates are getting slammed right now by the stock market. Endowments are down = fellowships evaporating. By and large I would guess that packages at privates tend to be higher, though it would strike me as a rare deal to have a 5-yr fellowship with no teaching duties attached -- again, this would also depend on the standard in your field. On the other hand, some higher-profile publics might offer something similar. You'd have to do the research to find out...

Well, you have to think about why they have these rules, which is that they expect you'll be working so hard that outside employment will be a serious impediment to your studies -- which you very much will, and it very much might. It's not so much that someone will find out, but it may raise eyebrows if and when you're unable to attend some sort of talk or event that everyone's "expected" to go to. Nevertheless, it wouldn't be the first or last time a PhD student held down an outside job. If you keep very organized and are willing to sacrifice some of your social life, then perhaps you can keep the impact on your grad studies to a minimum.

Curious-- For what it's worth, I'd say the definition of what an "English" degree means is rapidly shifting, to the point where it's fairly acceptable for you to have done something non-traditional (I say "fairly" because there are still, no doubt, some places where a traditional approach might be demanded when it comes to hiring). In my current program, there is a former student who did most of his work in the Art History dept. -- now Visual Studies -- and, while he got an "English" degree, has been hired as a Vis Studies prof. and currently has TT at a top-20 school. Lots of students here do similar things. I don't know anything about the Syracuse dept. per se but I'm guessing the possibilities there are similar; you just have to be smart about how you frame / theorize what you're doing, so you're able to write a compelling diss. and describe it all in a job talk somewhere down the road.

I have a story I like to tell, and I feel I've told it a million times, but it seemed relevant here: My friend applied to 18 schools last year. Among them, as per the typical advice, were a number of "reaches," mixed in with some midlevels, and what you'd call safeties. He was flat-out rejected by 15 of them. Made no difference what the ranking was. Got unfunded offers from two schools so low-ranked they probably aren't even listed. Out of the blue, was also wait-listed at a very prestigious private U. As Apr 15 approached, though I tried as gently as possible to talk him out of it, he was fully prepared to attend one of the lowly schools and pay for it out of his own pocket. Finally, private U came through with a very sweet deal and he gratefully snapped it up in a heartbeat. I do think there are "blue chip" prospects who can afford to regard some pretty good schools as "safeties," though especially this year, some of them might be in for a surprise. But these are kids coming out of the best of the best undergrad institutions with high academic pedigrees. For the rest of us, there's good fit, the luck of the draw, karma, and killer writing samples. :mrgreen: