TheSquirrel

I just passed my qualifying exams two days ago. Ever since, I have been an emotional wreck! The entire process left me with absolutely no confidence in myself as an academic or a human being.

Our qualifying exams consist of two days of written exams, then a week later an oral exam. Following the writtens, I felt absolute joy - I answered the questions to the best of my ability, I even stunned myself with the knowledge that seemed to just come gushing out for four hours straight. I was thinking 'this is what it's all about! It's a gruelling process, but now I know more about this subject than I ever have or ever will again!'.

Next thing I know, I'm sitting in a room with my committee while they tear to shreds everything I was so proud of, and while I struggle to answer even the most simple questions. I felt like a fool, and so embarrassed that they had exposed me as a fraud. This girl can't even answer the question 'What is a gene?!!'. I had studied my subject in such depth but had forgotten how to even string a sentence together.

Having spoken to others it sounds like this is the purpose of an oral qualifying exam - to break you and find out what your limits are. It's a rite of passage I suppose. I've just never felt so low! Is this character building? After it was over I was brought champagne and flowers, yet I felt like I did not deserve it one bit. I'd love to hear from others who have recently gone through quals and if they are reeling in shock like me, or are (as they probably rightfully should be) out celebrating a victory. Sheesh, what is it about grad school that makes one consider even the successes a failure?!

This sounds pretty similar to what happened to me. I don't really have any advice for you. I was lucky in that my orals were at the end of the semester so I basically checked out for finals (all I had to do was grade) and for the summer, then headed to the field to do my research. I haven't talked to most of my committee about the experience or how stupid they made me feel or their disappointment in my performance. I probably never will. :/

All I can say is that you have to move on. Focus on you for a while and what made you study this field/topic in particular and use that to get interested in what you're doing again. And don't rush it.

Yes, I do think they're separate from me. That's why my department has a MA and a PhD program, and that's why my profs have different requirements for MA and PhD students in the same courses. If you have a beef with the fact that there are MA and PhD programs, take it up with universities, not with me.

The gist of my post was about how a good chunk of the MA students (as opposed to PhD students) at my department are immature. I have noticed that this is not so much about individuals, but about career choices -- the people who are doing the thesis option in the MA program are serious, the ones who are doing the internship option are the more immature/gossippy kind. Like I said, I indicated that it might vary from university to university, since my university has that internship option (and in my field, that's very rare). I'm not sure why this seems to be the trend among internship students. It might be the fact that they don't take coursework as seriously as thesis students do. At any rate, I think I made it fairly clear that I am biased in favor of thesis students for that reason. I was not portraying MA students as inherently evil, and PhD students as the good. Geez. As I said, PhD students, too, have demonstrated similar immaturity, but it's been rather rare compared to MA students.

Well, for those who accused me of elitism even though I clearly pointed out I was not talking about all MA students:

I have a friend who was, until 2 months ago, an undergrad student at my university. He's 30 and just finished his undergrad and is starting his MA at another university in the fall. I don't think I have any elitist views toward him, or that I think of myself as smarter than him. I used to hang out with a small group of students from my department (none of whom are PhDs, btw), two of whom were undergrads (including that guy who just finished his undergrad), and we played board games once a week during the summer, and every now and then during the fall/spring semesters.

It's not like I'm gonna stop being friends with my undergrad and MA friends. My question was really about whether or not I should continue hanging out with the broader MA crowd because experience has shown that *most* of them happen to be busying themselves with gossipping and badmouthing more than with writing those papers they ought to be writing. Those who are busy being grad students are not around campus often enough, and, by the looks of it, prefer not to socialize with *that* MA crowd either.

Hi rising_star,

Well, I don't have a problem befriending MA students per se. I'm good friends with two MA students who are in the thesis option and are very serious and intend to apply to PhD programs. My beef is with MA students in general, and how immature many (if not most) of them are/can be. I feel that being too involved with them, yes, diminishes my standing, because it drags me into fights/drama that I think serious PhD students would avoid.

I remember how, during my undergrad years, my TAs (all PhD students) were very serious and based on what I saw at my department back then, never really hung out with MA students, and actually mostly kept to themselves when at school. To me, that's what PhD students are "typically" like, and what I saw at my current university is entirely different than what I had expected to see, and somehow, it feels strange / not right. I don't know if my TAs were different outside the school environment -- could be. My question was about both hanging out with MA students while at the department as well as socializing with them outside the academic environment.

My strained relations with a few MA students has left me wondering if it was because I stooped to their level of immaturity in hanging out with them? I don't know, just thinking out loud. Don't get me wrong, I'm not the elitist kind -- if I had been, I wouldn't have befriended them to begin with. But some of my experiences with some MA students has left me wondering if it's better off being disliked for not being social enough, than being disrespected and laughed at and badmouthed, after being too social?

I don't know -- I just wanted to hear other peoples' views about this, and their experiences with it.

Hey QuietScholar,

I'm a PhD student in PoliSci. TAships in my department are divided into "grades".. PhD students get Grade 1 TAships as part of their funding package. Generally speaking, we're expected to grade assignments and quizzes (I've never had to grade an exam because the course I've TAed has a major term paper but no final exam), attend lectures, and sometimes do office hours. The description of the Grade 1 TA, however, also includes this: "lead seminars." Usually, only PhD students are assigned to courses that have a seminar component, although there may be one or two MA students TAing courses with a seminar component (usually during the summer semester, when some of the PhD students go home). The course I've TAed had that seminar component, and all but 1 of the 6 TAs for the course during the fall and winter terms were PhD students. I TAed the same course in the summer, and the other TA was a MA student. So I think it depends on the department's needs / availability of students during the different terms, etc. At least for my university. But in general, the department prefers that PhD students, rather than MA students, TA courses that have the seminar component. That said, some PhD students have been assigned for courses that only had a grading component, but it was still considered a Grade 1 TAship (i.e. they got paid the same, for much less workload... not fair, but that's life, I guess)...

Anyhow, when I TAed courses with other MA students, we had the same sort / amount of responsibilities, but generally speaking, our input into the course and what was useful to do in the seminars) was valued more by the prof. Also, although we were given a lesson plan for the seminars, I usually went ahead and did things my own way (while covering pretty much the same ground), without being worried that the prof would be upset. Usually, MA students stuck to the lesson plan word for word.Not sure if they would've gotten into trouble if they hadn't. But I'm guessing PhD students have more leeway doing that sort of a thing.

Also, now that the PhD program has gotten quite large, the word that's been going around is that few if any MA students will now receive TAships. In fact, during my undergrad years at another university, I had never encountered a TA who was doing his/her MA. All my TAs were PhD students... Also, at the university where I did my MA, we weren't assigned TAships -- we only did RAships. So when I started my PhD program, I was shocked to see MA students TAing.. especially TAing the same course alongside PhD students. That probably won't be the case anymore at my university though.

You never miss an opportunity to badmouth people, do you? How does that indicate elitism? I wanted to see what other PhD students think about interacting with MA students, not what MA students think about interacting with MA or PhD students. If you don't like my question, don't take part in the thread, as simple as that. I think you're just trolling.

TheSquirrel,

Why do you know each other's grades? Is that the norm in the department? Are they posted in a public place? If they are not posted, I would suggest not to disclose what you get to anyone. It is possible that you disclose it to someone else it could get back to him. If this person doesn't know how well you are doing relative to himself hopefully that will help alleviate some of the competition.

In general though, I would just behave neutrally i.e. be polite, but don't engage. It is a better political move and really it is futile trying to reason with someone who is not being logical or to help someone who doesn't want to be helped especially after how he has been acting. The exception to this would be if you feel physically threatened or are verbally harassed then you should go speak to someone. It is hard to tell in your posts the seriousness of his behavior although damaging your property is really not a good sign.

To be honest, since he is having academic struggles and you said the department is aware of his performance, I doubt he is going to be able to stick it out and complete the degree. I feel like classes are such a small part of being a successful doctoral student. My guess is that he is having trouble in other areas as well--i.e. research, teaching, relationship with professors, etc. Although the hope of him leaving is probably not that helpful to you in the short run.

Edit: Yes, I have had experience with people like this. I wouldn't ignore the person-- it gives him too much power. I would just talk to him about neutral topics and not discuss your successes. If asked, just be vague. When asked, "how did you do?" reply: "I did okay" or "I did alright" and then I would change the subject. Do not ask him how he did because that would be engaging him in the discussion on grades.

Squirrel,

Let me tell you, first, THANK YOU. I've been dealing with a VERY similar situation for a while now, and everyone I've talked to about it says this kind of stuff shouldn't be happening in grad school. And yes, it is ridiculous and unnecessarily stressful.

First off, I'm the youngest person in our grad program. I went to an average state university for my undergrad, but I double majored in English and Philosophy (great with Lit and great with theory). The problem person for me is an older woman (early thirties) who I was friends with, who very similarly, began accusing me of making her look dumb in front of our professors. She went to a large, very prestigious state university but she majored in History. She made all Cs first semester and had to rewrite all her papers. Now, she makes Bs on all her work because the professors don't want to give her Cs because she claims she doesn't have time to juggle her family and rewriting papers plus the regular work assigned. She claims that the professors don't like her, and that's why she gets B's. Her comments in class are usually along the lines of, "I had a experience once when..." or "Well I know in my family we..." instead of being RELEVANT to the text or theory we are talking about in class.

Besides the fact she is less than stellar, she got a major attitude when I went to my first conference last spring. She didn't even submit a proposal, and she was acting like it was someone else's fault she wasn't going. I had a presentation in one of our classes the week after the conference, and she began to attack my work by saying it didn't make sense, that my thesis was wrong, and she even began shouting over the professor while the professor was trying to provide me actual constructive criticism. Then, she pulled out something claiming one of the journals I pulled one of my articles from for the presentation wasn't peer reviewed, and DEMANDED to know my grade deduction. The professor was like, "Um no it's peer reviewed." Sure enough, it wasn't, but the professor was like who cares.

That student now sits by the professor and when I had a paper to cover earlier this semester, she started mumbling under her breath to where anyone could barely hear it that I was TAKING her ideas, in a paper I wrote at home, I was taking the idea she wrote in her paper. She whined that I was talking about all the things she was talking about, and the professor finally told her "this isn't a competition" while I just sat there and was like "really? is this really still happening?"

I had a paper reviewed in class last night, and she said NOTHING constructive criticism wise in class. She did not participate. She sat there looking at her papers and that's it. She made a comment about Halloween and about some Italian movie that had nothing to do with my paper. She's also using the professors article for class discussion in two weeks, because there is nothing under the sun supposedly written on the subject besides our professors article.

And, back when I was preparing for the conference in spring, she sent me nasty text messages on my cellphone. I finally, at the end of the summer, told a different professor (our grad advisor) about this situation, and how it was flat out ridiculous. I told her that I knew if I handed my phone over, she would be kicked out of the school. My advisor just sat there wide eyed, and said she knew something was going on, but didn't know it was like that. I told her this was stupid and childish, and she agreed.

So, In short, yes, I have a jealous, competitive student who takes everything personally. She's insane and pretends to be hurt by the professors criticism, but then fires back with, "Well I went to big university and we did it like this" even though she didn't even major in English. She tries to manipulate everyone into feeling sorry for her, but she's a complete fake. The grad advisor already knew this, so me telling her the craziness wasn't a surprise. We used to be cool, but since I started to surpass her in grades, conferences, and now in applying for doctorate programs, she's a sore loser.

I try to ignore it, I also have to try really hard not to go out of my way to make her look dumb, b/c this problem has built up so much that take pleasure in watching her realize she ISN'T THAT SMART nor is she a HARD WORKER. But that is not the person I want to be, I want to be a nice and kind person, but she makes it very hard. I have to tell myself that I should pity her for not realizing she could work harder to write better papers, or read more to understand. Instead she blames everything on the text being complicated or the theory is too hard. I just have to remind myself that sometimes some people are better at certain things than others, and I'm sure she has some skill or talent outside of this program. But grad school is definitely not what she's suited for, mentally or emotionally. It is very hard to be the better person and remain academically professional.

It is understandable that you are frustrated by your "friend's" actions (I am not sure how close you really are; I've learned that people who turn on you quickly are not true friends). This person is probably doubting his abilities. Education must be important to him (as evidenced by two MAs and a Ph.D.), and perhaps for the first time, he feels like he's failing. This is certainly not carte blanche to lash out at you, though. He needs to learn how to better cope with stress and accept that he has to adapt to a more challenging environment.

I am not yet in grad school, so I don't know how common this is. However, at my undergrad, it is an unspoken rule to not discuss grades. No one should know how you are doing unless you tell them, and you only tell the people you can trust to be genuinely happy for you if you are doing well or who can commiserate instead of judging when you're not doing as well as you would like. If someone asks, you just say "I don't discuss grades." That's how most people deal with the competition.

If you are comfortable, perhaps you and your friend can meet in a neutral, populated location to discuss the pattern you have noticed. Explain how uncomfortable and hurt you felt when he said that you were trying to make him feel stupid and say that that was never your intention. Explain that you understand how stressful the transition can be and that you/certain TAs and professors can be helpful in working through the material, if he is someone you still want in your circle. Also make it clear that you will not brook his b.s.

The Squirrel--

The definition of "harassment" might very well include the behaviors your classmate is exhibiting. That is, it is harassment if one feels harassed. (Or, as I overheard one city employee tell another outside of about a training session earlier today "You can't say anything to anyone.") Given that you feel you have a problem with this guy, that he's destroyed your property, and he's brought violence into your work place, I strongly urge you to not ignore the situation. If you don't feel comfortable trying to talk it out in a public place over hot wings, and if you don't want to go to the DGS, consider taking a "lateral step" and talking to someone in the university's administration. Do not delay.

I also recommend that you avoid characterizations of such behavior as "childish" and "immature." Eventually, every graduate student gets to take a long hard look in the mirror. For your erstwhile friend, that time is now. For you, it may be as qualifying exams approach. Or when you get unfavorable teaching evaluations from undergraduates. By no means am I suggesting that you give the guy a "pass" or to let bygones be bygones.

I'm merely recommending that one approach these kinds of situations with empathy and without name calling. This way, if your apple cart gets up ended, and/or you need to be "talked off the ledge," you'll have set a precedent for how others should treat you in a time of crisis.

HTH.

hahahahahaha. i laugh because i used to think like you before i started a grad program.

grad school and undergrad are two different worlds. i took full course loads in undergrad and worked two part time jobs at once and still had time to hang out with friends a few nights a week and to have relationships and to see concerts and to play guitar. and i never felt like i didn't have enough time in the day to get my work done.

in grad school, it has been a real challenge even getting out and having dinner with a friend or SO because it's much easier to throw something in the oven and then shovel it into my face while i keep reading. i definitely have colleagues who do less work than me. i also definitely have colleagues who do more.

despite taking 5 classes instead of the "maximum" of 3 next semester, i have committed myself to having some free time every day. i've scheduled in yoga classes 4 days a week, phone calls with friends back home 1 day a week, and i plan to leave my evenings after 8 pm free, whether i'm finished my work or not. the sad reality is that you'll have to schedule most hours of your day. work time, free time, all of it needs to wind up in your schedule. i even schedule cleaning and laundry, because otherwise i'll just never get to it.

if you want to do photography, then schedule time for it. it is possible. you will be incredibly busy in grad school, but that's no reason to suspend your life or the things you enjoy. you'll have to remind yourself of that frequently.

Hey QuietScholar,

I'm a PhD student in PoliSci. TAships in my department are divided into "grades".. PhD students get Grade 1 TAships as part of their funding package. Generally speaking, we're expected to grade assignments and quizzes (I've never had to grade an exam because the course I've TAed has a major term paper but no final exam), attend lectures, and sometimes do office hours. The description of the Grade 1 TA, however, also includes this: "lead seminars." Usually, only PhD students are assigned to courses that have a seminar component, although there may be one or two MA students TAing courses with a seminar component (usually during the summer semester, when some of the PhD students go home). The course I've TAed had that seminar component, and all but 1 of the 6 TAs for the course during the fall and winter terms were PhD students. I TAed the same course in the summer, and the other TA was a MA student. So I think it depends on the department's needs / availability of students during the different terms, etc. At least for my university. But in general, the department prefers that PhD students, rather than MA students, TA courses that have the seminar component. That said, some PhD students have been assigned for courses that only had a grading component, but it was still considered a Grade 1 TAship (i.e. they got paid the same, for much less workload... not fair, but that's life, I guess)...

Anyhow, when I TAed courses with other MA students, we had the same sort / amount of responsibilities, but generally speaking, our input into the course and what was useful to do in the seminars) was valued more by the prof. Also, although we were given a lesson plan for the seminars, I usually went ahead and did things my own way (while covering pretty much the same ground), without being worried that the prof would be upset. Usually, MA students stuck to the lesson plan word for word.Not sure if they would've gotten into trouble if they hadn't. But I'm guessing PhD students have more leeway doing that sort of a thing.

Also, now that the PhD program has gotten quite large, the word that's been going around is that few if any MA students will now receive TAships. In fact, during my undergrad years at another university, I had never encountered a TA who was doing his/her MA. All my TAs were PhD students... Also, at the university where I did my MA, we weren't assigned TAships -- we only did RAships. So when I started my PhD program, I was shocked to see MA students TAing.. especially TAing the same course alongside PhD students. That probably won't be the case anymore at my university though.

Hi everyone,

I am doing my PhD at a university that has a rather small PhD student population overall. My department itself has less than 10 PhD students, most of whom are not in my subfield (so we take mostly different courses, attend different talks because of our divergent interests, etc). And we are also outnumbered by a relatively larger MA program (most of whom do not end up writing theses, but doing an internship option which allows them to get internships in the government).

As a result, there are very very few opportunities for me to socialize with PhD students in my field (and the same goes for socializing with PhD students in other fields -- since there are very few inter-departmental events, etc.). I've often had to hang out with MA students. But lately, I've been feeling that I'm kinda "above" that crowd. There's been a lot of drama among the MA students, and I have had strained relations with a few of them myself. I feel that they are, in general, rather immature and childish, and that we really don't get along all too well. Most of them are still in that childish / undergradish partying/gossiping/badmouthing phase (actually, one of the PhD students still is, too), which really is not my kinda scene (I prefer hanging out with friends and having discussions and debates over beer, etc).

Do you hang out with MA students in your program? Should I avoid them in general? Do you feel like a PhD student who hangs out with MA students in general, gives the wrong impression to faculty, etc.? I mean, I don't mind hanging out with serious MA students. There are 2 MA students who have told me they don't like hanging out with their MA peers because they're immature, and prefer hanging out with the more mature/serious PhD crowd. What are your thoughts on hanging out with MA students? Also, what are your thoughts on getting involved in the department's graduate student association? Is that something that MA students usually do and PhD students don't? I'm kinda involved in that, but I'm wondering if I should withdraw from it? Do you think PhD students should distance themselves from MA students, and act more formal with them?

I'm aware that it varies by the kind of university one is attending, the nature of the program and the size of the department, etc. My department is fairly small (not counting the undergrads, of course) compared to other departments. My university is in a big city, located downtown, so yes, there are opportunities for socializing outside the university, but I'm interested in socializing with the university crowd.

Anyhow, your thoughts are appreciated.

This thread is truly inspiring. There are so many great tips here, and it's heartening to know I'm not alone. Sometimes it feels like the stress of worrying about funding is eating away at me, and I get frustrated because I just want to focus all my attention to my studies. That being said, I'm better funded this year than I have ever been. I'm entering the second yr of my MA with a SSHRC, a top-up award, and a TAship, plus some summer savings. I almost didn't work when I heard I got the SSHRC, but now I'm so glad I did, even if it's just a contract job. The only difficulty is that I still owe $5000 in tuition from the previous year, and along with paying tuition for this remaining year, I should have about $13000 the school year, and from reading this forum this seems quite feasible to live on. I would like to spend as little as possible so that come May, I still have a few grand in the bank to travel or to subsist on while I take a breather.

My rent is only $500 a month and I live with roommates. We don't cook communally but someone always makes homemade treats which adds variety. Like some of you here I do get bored with eating the same thing more than 2-3 meals; I get around this by freezing what I don't eat, or making two big batches of food and mixing it up, or adding fresh veggies. There is also a neighborhood corner store I've dubbed "the place where veggies go to die", seriously, it's like they get all the fruit and vegetables that have somehow fallen off a truck or just about to go bad. When I've been really tight with money, I've bought up baskets of tomatoes and eggplant, etc that are just a little bruised, grilled them or made sauce, and had enough for pasta or sandwiches or salads for a week. So good!

Other tips I have is not to live in a neighborhood with a lot of trendy stores; out of sight is out of mind. How many clothes can one person have? I love clothing so this is a weak point, I have convinced myself that marketers target women in order to brainwash us so that we won't care about social issues. This may not be necessarily true but it has helped stave the shopping cravings. Also, growing up my family also had quite a tight budget and I learnt to sew and knit from my mom, totally invaluable tools. It is really satisfying thing to do, particularly as a writing/reading break to make your own clothes or accessories. Lots of websites such as craftster give instructions for simple projects.

Also, start a garden, even a small container garden. Or sign up for a fresh food box, this can save time and ensure that you eat enough veggies in the winter months. Also, my roommate and I made some homebrew wine; we went to a "U-Brew" type of facility and for less than $30 each we got 25 bottles of decent red wine which we take to bbq's, or make sangria with. Corks, bottles and other supplies may initially set you back about $30, or you can collect bottles or borrow a friends' corker.

Coffee, like many of you, is a habit- I buy the best quality beans I can for about $10 a pound, and with little grinder and a bodum I've learnt to make an amazing cup of brew. Or carry around your own travel mug and most coffeeshops do give a discount. Ask for giftcards to your favourite cafes or grocery stores for christmas and save them for when you are really broke.

I'll be thinking of all of you as I embark on a new school year! living on such a tight budget may hurt at first, but the plus side is that we are learning financial skills which some people never do, and we appreciate every small luxury we have!

OP, you might know for a fact that all of the MA/internship bound students in your specific program don't give a damn about the courses they're taking because they just want to move on to their jobs as soon as possible, but that's not the case for all of us, I know, I know, you're not generalizing, but really what's the difference? How does the level of their commitment impact your degree? However, despite the lack of generalizing, it's a little tough to read through this thread and not get the "oh, I guess I'm in that category too because I'm a soon to be lowly MA student in a *gasp* professional program." It's still beyond me, after 4 and a half pages of this thread, why you needed advice in order to decide if you should spend time with people who engage in behavior that you don't appreciate. The better question is why wouldn't you distance yourself from them? Would you be missing out on something socially or academically if you did? If you're truly not generalizing or looking for confirmation that it's OK to purposefully be contemptuous of professional MA students then I'm not sure where the Phd vs MA thing comes into play. Regardless of academic hierarchy or who has to do the most work for their degree, your problem is the particular people that you happen to be in a program with that are not to your liking for whatever reason, or at least that's what you're insisting. I totally understand feeling disgusted with people who are immature, disrespectful, and not committed, but if you don't have to go out to bars with them and subject yourself to their drama, then why would you? Seems like a no-brainer. I sure as hell wouldn't, even if that means reducing the number of people in my social circle. Maybe you should reach out to the few other PhD students in your program in order to start building friendships with them, that might work about better because they're motivations and interests will be more in line with yours...just sayin'

That being said, if you really only want a masters and not a phd, you should not use of the slot of someone who is commited to the phd as a point of ethics.

Not a grad student yet, but something I've learned from living as a poor senior undergrad:

At the beginning of each week, calculate how much you expect to spend on food, entertainment, etc. Withdraw that amount of cash from your account and keep it in your wallet. (You can even split it up by what it's supposed to be spent on using colored rubber bands or different sections in your wallet, if you like.) It helps you know just how much money you're spending on things, and if you've sectioned it off, you can make a more informed decision about whether or not you truly want to use extra money allotted for food or entertainment to buy that pair of too-expensive shoes.

Something else that a grad student I know does (that I don't necessarily do myself) is break all of his large bills into ones, then pay with one dollar bills every time. He says it teaches him the value of money, and asking people to break bills for him helps him meet new people. He's a bit strange, though, so take it or leave it.

Again I'm here to say don't do the online thing... Yes the weird people can be anywhere but there's a higher concentration online

Sorry to be a pain in the butt, but you're better off getting a Mac. I've had a couple of PC laptops, and they just don't have the longevity of my MacBook. You could use a comp that will last the entire program, and a Mac is the safest bet. It's worth the student loan $$$.

I've done both. I used to live a two hour's commute away (had to take the bus AND metro)... That was when I was an undergrad. Now I'm in my PhD, and I decided, from the very beginning, that I just could NOT deal with living so far away from campus. It was terrible, to be honest. A total waste of time. Also, my current university is located downtown, and typically, it's undergrads that commute and grads who live closer.. Also, as it's downtown and there are relatively few apartment buildings in the immediate vicinity of the university ) I don't get to bump into people I know all the time.. I *have* seen the same people over and over again, but they're not in my program, so it doesn't bother me at all . I live a 2-minute walk from school now. In fact, I can see my department building from my window. It's been great. It makes a lot of difference, IMO, because you get to save a lot of time AND energy. It's convenient both when you're doing coursework AND once you're done with coursework. I tend to do my research at random hours, so I can go to the library any time I choose, even past midnight (keep in mind that subway services usually run until 1am), and carrying a ton of books home wouldn't be a problem. I do have an office at the department, but sometimes I need a change of scene, and I end up going home for a few hours during the day, and having lunch and reading some, then going back to school.. Can't possibly do that if you're living so far away. It would be an insanely huge waste of time and energy. I'd say much of it depends on your study/research habits. With my study and research habits, living far from campus would be a killer.

Rising_star,
And that's the sad reality of academia -- people who think they can do all that (gossip, badmouth, etc.) and then come home and write papers, and then get a professorship, and continue doing all that (gossipping, badmouthing). That's exactly why, sadly, academia is such a place of backstabbing and badmouthing, rather than collaboration.

As for your comparison with racists -- I frankly knew that was coming, but decided to write it anyhow. I have never seen a racist who *actually* has a black *friend*. A black person they may have talked to once or twice? Maybe. But that hardly makes people friends. So I think you're just as guilty of jumping to conclusions about my alleged elitism as I allegedly am of jumping to conclusions about MA students.

How do I know that profs view MA students differently than they view PhD students? Because I've been with them in the same room, and have seen them interact, and have also talked about MA students with my prof (I recently asked my prof if he had a RA opportunity for my friend who is a MA student), and he told me that, frankly, he doesn't want to hire a MA student, even though they get paid much less compared to PhD students. That they (the ones at my department, that is) are mostly not efficient time-wise, and not as reliable when they are needed ASAP. Again, that might be different at other universities, given that my university has a non-thesis MA option (internship), which is what most MA students do.

I've gone out for drinks many times with said MA students. I know them well enough. I'm not close friends, obviously. But I think I know what they're all about, judging by their actions. Having some of them around is just like having a walking-talking tape recorder that records everything you say about anything, and then uses it against you when you "stray" from their childish agendas. That's not exactly in tune with my definition of maturity. Maybe it is in tune with your and others' definitions of maturity.

Well, for those who accused me of elitism even though I clearly pointed out I was not talking about all MA students:

I have a friend who was, until 2 months ago, an undergrad student at my university. He's 30 and just finished his undergrad and is starting his MA at another university in the fall. I don't think I have any elitist views toward him, or that I think of myself as smarter than him. I used to hang out with a small group of students from my department (none of whom are PhDs, btw), two of whom were undergrads (including that guy who just finished his undergrad), and we played board games once a week during the summer, and every now and then during the fall/spring semesters.

It's not like I'm gonna stop being friends with my undergrad and MA friends. My question was really about whether or not I should continue hanging out with the broader MA crowd because experience has shown that *most* of them happen to be busying themselves with gossipping and badmouthing more than with writing those papers they ought to be writing. Those who are busy being grad students are not around campus often enough, and, by the looks of it, prefer not to socialize with *that* MA crowd either.

My plan is to buy generic versions of everything (except maybe shampoo and conditioner), to do netflix instead of cable, to defer my student loan payments, to stop going out to nice dinners, to not buy nice clothes for the next 5 years, and to live in cheap on campus housing with roommates. Also to be too busy to spend lots of money on entertainment.

But the reason I was posting was to comment on eating cheaply. At my undergrad school (and where I'm going for grad school) there are co-ops where a group of people all buy food together and eat together evey night. Usually you have to cook one night a week, but the other people cook the other nights. It is fantastic to have company for dinner every night and to have homecooked meals every night without cooking yourself. My old co-op would even save plates of food for people who couldn't make it to dinner. And most of all it is incredibly cheap to do this. Everything was bought in huuuuge bulk quantities and made from scratch. We literally had garbage cans full of things like flour and suger. I think it cost $400 to eat for a semester (though we only ate meat once a week).

If co-ops aren't your thing, I reccommend Traer Joes for cheap staples, and even cheap frozen foods to heat up. Then again my impression that Trader Joes is dirt cheap may be less true outside of a city where normal grocery stores aren't really expensive.

Yes, I wholeheartedly agree. I just wanted to add to my previous post that despite my income (relatively high for a grad student), I do not spend a lot, and save a lot. I have the cheapest phone plan. I am a pretty decent cook, so I cook myself. I also share my wireless Internet connection with my immediate apartment neighbours, and I do not have a TV, so no cable bills there. I think that lots of grad students complain about not having enough income, and yet they spend a lot too. There are a few others in my program who have 50" plasma TV screens in their apartments, Blu-ray players (remember a Blu-ray DVD is like $30 each!), and Blackberries with $100 phone plans. These are the people I find who complain that they need more money. Well, I seriously want to slap them in the face and show them reality!