mlle

I think it depends on your "qualifications" and how good you can make your cover letter/resume look, IMO. I just finished grad school (masters #2, I'm sure everyone is sick of me whining about my story by now) and I've been getting several bites since I've started searching aggressively back in the fall/winter. I have some work experience and a smattering of internships/assistantships in addition to my degrees. But still more edu qualifications than hard core "work experience." Been on a dozen interviews (most of them phone screens, which I rarely screen through) over the last few months. No offers, mostly because I suck at interviewing. I typically apply to several jobs a week (that is, when I'm not in the midst of preparing for/fretting over/crying under the covers in bed in anticipation of another doomed interview). If an organization decides to pursue my application, they typically reply a few weeks to a month later (one place contacted me about 2 months later; I was screened out of the job that I applied for but they apparently kept my resume and called me in for a different position there--which, of course, I didn't get). A couple of places responded within a week and went through the whole interviewing (and rejection) process very quickly. For those places, the first thing they asked me is, "Can you start IMMEDIATElY? No, IMMEDIATELY????" I've spent the last couple of weeks not sending out as many of the standard online applications, just because I thought it might be time to restrategize after so many rejections (i.e. network or whatever more) and also simply because I've reached a sort of burnout and don't know what to do with myself. The bites tend to occur in waves, a lulling week followed by 2 or 3 call backs for interviews another week (which I consider a decent amount). The people I do know from my program who have already landed job are either good at interviewing and not the buffoon that I am, or they have aggressively "networked" and tapped into the hidden job market, not relied on applying to jobs online, sought referrals, etc. So, my advice, as a job seeker who is getting callbacks but not offers due to the whole intnerviewing thing is, 1) write beautiful, wooing, well-tailored cover letters to the hiring manager/recruiter. 2) Perfect the presentation and content of your resume as much as you can. And, possibly more, or as importantly, "network." It'll give you an edge, as they say, and as I've witnessed in people who actually know how to network with skill and grace. This is just my experience in my own particular field, don't know if I answered your question. Oh, and wish me luck for my doomed interview tomorrow....

I'm in a completely different field (social sciences and public health) than you guys, so my commentary is completely irrelevant to the thread thus far (and yes, I'm still interviewing, almost 4 months after graduating), but I need to vent. Because my degrees can take me into a range of different roles/venues, I've had a range of interview experiences. I get a lot of the godforsaken behavioral interviews, usually for the social science-y jobs. One of those jobs put me through 2 long interviews and ALL of the questions were behavioral, they didn't give a goddamn about my experience or skills, and the job required a fair amount of technical proficiency. They also went ahead and contacted my references and made them write up in-depth reviews of me before I even got to the in-person interview, which kind of annoyed me because if I'm going to be interviewing with a bazillion organizations I don't like my references to be called a bazillion times and get irritated and worn out. I usually have to submit a writing sample instead of having to chunk out computer code. I've never encountered an organization yet that puts you more than a few rounds of interviews; they'll often haven you interview multiple people (consecutively or at once) but nothing like going back 9 times or whatever, and nothing like an all-day interview. I can barely handle 1 1-hour interview, I think I'd kill myself (speaking figuratively....maybe) if I had to do 9 different interviews or an all-day interview--unless I'm misunderstanding the poster. I have another interview tomorrow (I'm crawling under my skin), a phone interview in another city 400 miles away, followed by an in-person interview with another place here in town on Monday. And I've just been through 2 "informational interviews" already this week. The first person I talked to had years of experience and said she was looking for a job herself--the grant for her current job is drying up--and was at a loss for what to tell me; she seemed as clueless as I was with regards to "networking" and jobhunting, etc. I don't know how much more of this I can take. Anyway, I'm starting to ramble again. I'm glad I came across someone's suggestion for GlassDoor. If anyone else who's in my kind of field (or close to my field, or even not in my field at all) has experiences to share, please post and rant recommend, etc. (I'm sure no one will, but I still figured I might put out the request....)

No, no, I'd be deliberating over the same question if I were in your shoes. I'm just.....definitely not in your shoes.

Luck?!?!????? As if he/she needs luck!!! I don't even know how to fathom the OP I've just read. Am I swimming through some surreal, fantastical, pseudo-hallucinatory waking dream, here? Am I stuck inside a Salvador Dali painting? ....Or evidently I should have tortured myself and taken more SAS and statistics classes during my 3.5 years of grad school. Umm, yeah, sorry closetgeek. I really wish I had some words of wisdom to help you with your little "dilemma," but I'm too busy trying to sort through this most amusing scenario as someone sitting on the other side of the fence.

Thanks so much for the blog! It's really helpful. Yes, I have gotten in touch with the supervisor for my practicum that I did for this program. That person was actually the person I was talking about in my OP, who told me to network with profs. She now works under one of the professors and serves as the go-to for students who do their practicum with that professor's program. (So she's basically supervising her peers; it's makes things both awkward and more comfortable at the same time). She vaguely said she'd be "happy to help" at our meeting, and I asked if I could continue to volunteer with the research projects while I look for a job (so I can tell employers I'm currently doing something at least somewhat substantive) but there's still the whole, I need an income thing. I guess contacting alumni will be next (Oh, God). I think it's obvious I'm put out of my comfort zone when it comes to networking and job searching no matter what I do....

A reply! And an uncritical one--definitely the voice of a psychologist, or future one (No, I'm not looking for online therapy or psychoanalysis, just noting your background). Yes, my degrees do complement each other, which is why I got the latter. There are several "duel degree" programs that offer my combination of masters, I just happened to get mine one after the other. But that godforsaken question is still one that I often get, including at interviews--in a more carefully worded fashion of course. And my academic advisor in this program flat out asked it to me without mincing any words when I started the program (So much for building rapport at our first meeting). Anyway, yes, I was--am--in a state of panic and doubt when I posted this. And no, you didn't ramble too much. I need all the details I can get. I suppose I'll have to suck it up and start contacting and asking for meetings and all that beginning next week. Hopefully these informational interviews won't go as miserably as my typical job interview. I've been to the career office, did the whole resume and cover letter critique. My resume and cover letters seem to be fine. My problem is getting my foot in the door and then not blowing the damn interview. And yes, I'm currently doing a weekly how-to-find-a-job workshop held by the school's career office. They do give you interview training and all that...and they also basically said you can't get a job anywhere in the current market without a referral. I honestly can't understand why no one else in the workshop group doesn't seem to be as alarmed as I am about this whole disgusting process, but this is probably my personality. Thanks, and good luck with those applications.

Unfortunately, I'm back again. I was hoping I'd never have to return to this joint, but alas, there one more thing to do now that I finished grad school: find a job. So yeah, I just graduated with master's #2 last month. I now have a terminal social science masters with an "applied" emphasis, and a professional degree, the latter of which I just finished (please, do refrain from the inevitable, contemptuous, ass-biting question, "Well WHY did you get TWO master's degrees??? What is the POINT of that???" which I know you are all thinking) But I have yet to find a job, and the prospects are not looking good: I've had two interviews and 2 rejections so far (a needless to insert footnote: I am a really, really underwelming interviewee, which adds an additional barrier to me finding a job given the current climate of the market). No other organizations to which I've applied have contacted me for an interview. I just talked today to someone who graduated a year ahead of me and who now has a job as a professional RA at the school. She said she knows recent graduates of the program for whom it took a year to land a job after graduating (This type of scenario is not news to anyone, but I still began to hyperventilate. The economy is kaput, but I still need to pay my bills...) She also said I should start wooing my now-former professors for leads, referrals, opportunities to work for pay on their grant-funded research teams, etc "because they know you and they know your strengths." In other words, network via my professors. I know my other newly graduated classmates are doing this, so I'll be "another one" of many begging for peanuts (another footnote: I graduated with a large cohort; you know professional programs. They're basically degree farms). So, my rambling aside, how exactly does one go about contacting a professor you know to find job leads? Specifically, what is the etiquette of doing this? Should I send them a "message" on the ubiquitous Linked-in so that they see the specific info about my background when I contact them (most of my professors in this program are on Linked in, though I'm not personally "connected" with any of them)? Or should I send a more formal e-mail? Whatever the means, my plan was to contact my professors who I sense wouldn't be sincerely irritated to hear from me (e.g. "Oh, God, another one." or, "Oh, God, not THIS one!") and tell them I'm interested in working in the blah blah blah area of work, and, after taking their class in this area, would they be able to tell me more info about current opportunities or organizations they know of in this field of work. Something to that effect. I know you guys are mostly PhD students or PhD applicants, but you still know something about the convoluted rituals of professor-student communication in a university setting. And, another footnote--I'm not trying to actively solicit replies if no one here really knows what the hell to tell me, but I'm going to feel really humiliated if this stands as a lone post and no one has anything to say, even if it's only, "this isn't really the type of forum for your topic. You should try xyz forum." And then the mod locks the thread...

It's so funny to me that this thread was started almost 2 years ago, the OP has not posted any other messages ever since, and yet the thread keeps getting periodically resurrected from the gradcafe forum catacombs. I guess it's just one of those timeless topics, the fragile student-advisor relationship...

Oh, don't get all bitter about what I said in the other thread, pol--don't take it that way. I don't think it's a bad thing to have kids while you're a student, or when you're in UG for that matter. I was speaking for myself that it would've been a disaster for everyone if I were to have kids while I was still young (I'm a couple of years older than you and it would still be a disaster at this point, but I'm a miserable wreck). But I'm taking the thread off-topic; carry on with your discussion, folks.

My fiercely pro-natal mother loves to make the Down's Syndrome argument re: waiting to have kids. And I love to counter her with the "prevention paradox" argument--even though women over 40 are at highest risk for giving birth to babies with Down's Syndrome, most babies born with Down's Syndrome are born to women under 30, because those women are the ones having the most babies. I was tempted to link to the all the peer-reviewed scientific blah blah articles on the Down's Syndrome prevention paradox, but I thought that might be taking it too far (if you're truly interested you can just google "prevention paradox Down's Syndrome" and find the relevant info; most of the articles in the hits do not require remote access to read ) I'm not trying to dismember anyone here, I'm just saying that there are biological threats to your potential baby's health no matter what age you are when you conceive. Environmental and situational factors may be more within the realm of someone's control, and for many that may mean waiting to have kids until they are good and ready (emotionally, financially, etc.). I'm just remembering the way I took care of myself (or DIDN'T take care of myself) during UG...and I'd think that a baby born to a 30+-year-old woman who is actually mindful of her physical health and lifestyle would be better off, physically and developmentally, than a baby born to a 20-year-old malnourished, pill-popping mess. Most people aren't a complete mess when they're 20, but I just think that context is key.

Oh, for God's sake. Nothing like more decontextualized pop science tossed out by the media to strike fear and panic in our hearts. As if women don't have enough on their minds while they're trying to put their lives together. The news blurb doesn't mention at all how many eggs a woman has to begin with and how many eggs she actually pops out during her lifetime. I had always heard that a woman is born with TONS and TONS of eggs that she'll never ever use up during all her lifetime of menstruating. Am I mistaken about that? I just feel like that interview was organized by the Grandmothers in Defense of Selfless Motherhood and the Cult of Domesticity Coalition. I'm not denying biology or saying I agree that it's perfectly fine to wait until you're 40 to try to get pregnant, I'm just saying I think that news report was totally incomplete. And the piece about telling women to lose weight--lose weight if you're obese, fine, but to make a brief blanket statement that you should lose weight to increase fertility....if I were one of the people who worked on the featured study, I would be super pissed that Good Morning America would make such a mockery out of it. For the record, I have heard professorial testimony that it's logistically easier to have kids during, rather than after grad school. Since having kids isn't one of my big priorities in life, I don't have many of my own thoughts to comment on the issue other than I think it's way too easy to skew such discussions with personal ideology.

*chuckles* I have no comment on the fear-of-being-ax-murdered hysteria that is starting to spread through the thread. My concern for anonymity stems not out of a morbid fear for my safety but rather out of a morbid fear that I might be identified by colleagues as that cyber geek who reports every anguished and mundane detail of their grad school hopes, dreams, tribulations and studies on a public message board for everyone on the world to read and mock. I have nevertheless probably posted enough for someone who really wanted to, to figure out who I am; it seems inevitable given that I also have an unusual combination of degrees like someone else here mentioned, and it's just so hard not to post unique information when you're trying to get the relevant advice. *sigh* Regarding admissions people literally going on these forums and tracking down who's posting what--am I the only person who thinks that sounds just a little far-fetched? Does anyone actually have firm evidence that this really happens? I just have trouble seeing how it is reasonable for a harried academic--or even the departmental coordinator hired by the harried academic--who is researching, publishing, grant writing, teaching, and serving on a dozen committees to go on one of these joints and to monitor everyone's posted GRE scores and GPA, etc.

Eh, I would say that understanding human nature is a (or the) major component in any of the social sciences and humanities. I took peppermint's comment to be referring to the fact that the social sciences and humanities are reflexive fields, they are concerned with human nature as much as with "pure" research. I started my MA in the social sciences at 24, graduated right before turning 26, and then fled into a professional program instead of a PhD because social science academia was too overwhelming for me. I sometimes wonder whether things would have panned out differently if I had waited out the turmoil of the first half of my twenties and started grad school in the field that interested me a few years later. Obviously, I was not one of the precocious grad students....I think a majority of people start their PhDs early in this field and maturity is not an issue. But for many it is. I guess it's a self selection process. At any rate, I think it's silly to get all roiled up over the issue.

You mean literally talk to the department about it!!!??? You kid. I'm sure they'd find that a most compelling question to pose to the dept office: "Hi, Dr. DGS. I'd like to know the school's policy on TAs dating undergrads. I have the hots for one of my soon-to-be-former-students and I'd like to hit on her." :-o

I obviously don't know what the best thing to do is, but if I were in that situation I would also "hang low"/"play it cool" blah blah, at this point. I would probably find myself acting somewhat formal/aloof toward him with things not strictly class-related while trying not to come off as impolite. That is indeed very awkward, even more awkward if he's on your committee. Maybe I have a stick up my ass, but that kind of thing would drive me nuts.

Sounds terrible. No one should have to put up with those kinds of distracting shenanigans while they're pulling their hair out at the dissertation level. How exactly is this professor flirting with you?

I found myself going the shameless-coffee-drinking-and-Xanax-popping route during my last master's program. I'm trying my best to avoid getting into that niche again for this degree. It's just so hard not to disregard taking care of yourself when you're stretched thin and spending your days appeasing type-A academics who are even more frazzled and off-kilter than you find yourself becoming (it was that way in my department, at least). I loathe "working out" for the sake of working out but I do need to get out every day for a walk in the park, if only for fresh air. As much as trying to literally take care of myself and have good habits and all that, it helps me to just put things in perspective and not be down on myself for not meeting higher standards of perfection, and to remember that it's normal and natural to feel stressed as hell in grad school. I used to take the angst I felt about the demands of grad school and trying to balance my assistantship with my coursework as a sign that I wasn't cut out for what I was doing, but I realized after I finished the program that that's not the case. One of my new professors recently said half-jokingly that he thinks if you're in grad school and you're not feeling overwhelmed and anxious, then you're not getting your money's worth--so for me it provides solace, in a sad and sick way, to know that it's not just me; my classmates feel like their heads are going to explode too......

OMG the car thing never even occurred to me before. I took my car with me but it's registered under my dad's name for the sake of cheaper insurance and I'm still using my parents' address as my perm address (yes, in my mid-twenties....the perils of being a perpetual starving grad student). As if I need one more thing to worry about.

I did exactly what everyone warns not to do and rented sight unseen. I tried CL but ended up picking a place from the housing listings put out by my school's housing office. I talked to a friend who went to this school and lived in the town for undergrad and she gave me a rundown of every street and neighborhood and what they're like, and when I talked to the landlord I asked for pictures (hoping the pictures were accurate) and I asked to talk to a current tenant. The person they put me in touch with claimed to be very happy with the place. I also looked at the street and neighborhood with google maps. I agonized a little more and then I sent in my deposit and held my breath for the next 2 months, and I was prepared for disappointment when I arrived here yesterday and signed the lease. The place isn't spectacular but it appears to be bug-free (my main criteria, which I unabashedly drilled the current tenant about) and it's in a safe neighborhood. My main issue with the place is that it has off-site laundry, and since this is not a car-friendly neighborhood, I'll be dragging my clothes on foot to the laundromat a few blocks away. But I knew about that beforehand. It's an individual residence, and like the other poster, I found landlords of individual residences to be more accommodating for someone in my situation. The realtors I talked to were only interested in renting from apartment complexes in the most expensive and upscale areas of town and told me to go take a hike when I contacted them with my housing criteria.

I'm very naive when it comes to money, but my initial thought upon reading the OP is that they'll need to declare bankruptcy at one point in the near or distant future. Paying back $230,000 plus interest just doesn't sound like a feasible thing for anyone to do during their lifetime. Can't the OP declare bankruptcy for this sort of thing? It seems like they have no choice. Again, I'm embarrassingly naive when it comes to money, but bankruptcy seems unavoidable for that much debt. EDIT: okay, I got curious after looking at this thread and looked up bankruptcy and apparently you can't declare bankruptcy for student loans, which I'm sure everyone else besides me already knew. But what about the private loans? Can the OP do something about those?

I spent a semester at UNM on a domestic exchange during undergrad and I loved the school and Albuquerque, specifically because the place was unlike any other I've been to before. I came from a cram-jam bustling metropolitan area in the Mid-Atlantic and ABQ and the rest of NM is beautiful in an unusual, peaceful, desolate desert sort of way. The pace of life and people are very chill and laid back. A friend of mine who visited me from back home while I was there got the heebie jeebies from ABQ and the people for the very reasons noted by studentfromLA, but I didn't mind the quirkiness of the town. I didn't have a car and was fine walking or using the public bus to get around ABQ, but I was more limited if I wanted to go outside of the city. The city does have a stop on the Rail Runner Express, though, which is a cheap commuter train that goes North/South down the state from Balen to Santa Fe. The cost of living in NM is super cheap compared to the Mid-Atlantic. I concur with all the other things said about ABQ and UNM above. You may need a certain kind of disposition to be happy in ABQ, but I'd go back there in a heartbeat if I had the opportunity.

Heh, I blush when I read some of my past posts. :oops: I never did hear from the prof ever again (submitted the paper after the last class and then the final exam was proctored), but no one else in the class heard from the prof about their papers either. My classmates dismissed me as being silly and paranoid when I told them why I had assumed I had never gotten feedback for my paper. I still think my paper went too far and was carelessly written in terms of, umm, discussing the relevant literature (!!!), but I did end up getting an A for my final grade and this prof tends to give out more A-'s than A's. So apparently he couldn't have been THAT pissed off. (Or maybe he was....) =)

Eh, I wouldn't freak out or anything. This prof with whom I was corresponding was a "faculty contact" and not my official advisor; the dept said I will find out who my advisor is at the end of the summer. With the masters program that I just finished, they didn't even assign me an advisor/faculty contact, much less info about registration, until later in the summer before I began. I think I received advising and registration info in July with masters program #1 only because I got antsy and e-mailed the dept coordinator asking about it.

Thanks for the input, guys. I basically didn't know if the professor would find it off-putting to be contacted during the summer. I was able to reach the prof over e-mail and he replied and said he was happy to help *sigh* =)

So, is it poor form or whatever for get in touch with your advisor/faculty contact for the first time in the middle of July? Back in late April my program sent me the name of a faculty contact/preliminary advisor who I could get in touch with re: course selection for my first semester in the program. The email with this info said, "We encourage you to contact your faculty contact within the next four weeks with any questions you may have regarding registration." I never did this within four weeks because for god's sake, I was just too wound up in graduating from program #1 to sit down and map out my first semester of classes for program #2 (I guess I'm a bad grad student). It's now July and I'm seriously working out my potential plan of study and I have questions about core classes, etc. Is it inappropriate to get in touch with the faculty contact now, in the middle of the summer, with my course selection questions? Has the window of opportunity closed and I've already screwed things up before even starting my first semester?