autumn wind

the Sarah Lawrence and Columbia waitlists will likely be in near-constant flux for the next week or so, as their cohorts are so unusually large and so many decline when they start crunching the numbers and discover how little funding they've been offered. i'd say it's safe to be optimistic, but remember that waitlisted applicants at non-fully funded NYC mfa programs are the ones most likely to receive the abysmal funding packages.

poetry applicant on draft just officially accepted an offer of admission from cornell, and also declined offers from UVA, U of Michigan, Indiana, New Writers Project, NYU (Jan Gabriel Fellowship / 30k fully funded), and Syracuse. he also wrote that he's removing himself from Illinois, Vanderbilt, and Brown waitlists. good luck to those in limbo! hoping everything works out.

hi! to the best of my knowledge, all acceptances and waitlist notifications for rutgers-camden have gone out early march (though recent movement/shuffling has been going on). it seems like they're one of those schools who take ages to notify rejected applicants, unfortunately.

small update i just saw: a poetry applicant posted on draft to update everyone that she'd officially rejected funded offers of admission from Cornell, Iowa, NC State, and U of Michigan. best of luck to waitlisted applicants in the weeks to come! edit: based on timing of draft posts, i think U of Michigan has already filled their newly vacant poetry spot (about an hour ago).

this, this, this. also, as many before me have said, the columbia mfa does not have a great reputation among the literary world. this was discussed briefly on draft, but there are those non-writers who will hear an ivy league name uttered and automatically assign prestige/status to your acceptance or even graduation there, and then there are publishers, editors, and writers who will hear columbia and think about what a scam its mfa program is. of course, no program will "bar" you from publishing, per se, but if you're looking to go to a school that will elicit an immediate positive reaction when placed in a bio or cv, columbia is the last place you'd want to go. still, important to remember (from draft): "Whatever you do next, now you can always say that YOU rejected Columbia! ? Their offer is worthy of celebration even if it is bittersweet."

i think you should interpret your brooklyn acceptance as evidence that you could put together a really competitive application packet with more time and research—and a greater number of fully funded schools added to the list. i've said this already, but casting such a small net (4 schools is way under the average) doesn't do justice to the possibilities that an mfa might make happen for you, particularly because you only have one chance at committing to and experiencing this degree. i also speak from personal experience, as i (stupidly) walked away from undergrad with 20k in student loan debt that i now have to think about for the rest of my foreseeable future (possibly even life)—and i live in a city with a much lower cost of living than new york. remember that you have to also think about how much it will cost to upend your life for a city as expensive as new york; many fully funded NYU students struggle not to spread themselves too thin, and they have a stipend to offset most of the hidden fees/costs you should be factoring in. so that 15k could easily become 20 or even 25k over time. wherever you're moving, you'll need to think about having at least two months' worth of rent money—depending on your budget/roommate situation—at the ready, you'll need to think about paying for groceries/health insurance (if brooklyn doesn't cover it)/dental/transportation/leisure or luxury expenses, as well as any hidden fees built into your mfa (which i recommend asking about; many have to pay $500-$3,000 a semester/academic year for university or program-specific reasons). in my (personal) opinion, paying any amount of money to attend an mfa program is unreasonable, as the degree doesn't in any way guarantee creative writing success or post-grad teaching opportunities (many will tell you that your real ticket to teaching in an mfa program is publishing a book, preferably many and preferably to at least average success, depending on genre). essentially, an mfa is an investment that guarantees zero return, so unless you come from generational wealth, have a partner/family to support you, are prepared with a large savings cushion, etc., you should exhaust all possible alternatives before considering taking on that amount of debt. and you're right that brooklyn won't have much prestige pull outside of the NYC mfa / literary circuit. it's a good school for what it offers, but i do think you should consider another round of applications. does brooklyn offer teaching opportunities? will you be able to (quietly) work on top of writing? what do you hope to get out of an mfa? have you started doing hypothetical budgeting specific to moving to the east coast? some thoughts on the program from draft: — "I mean, it’s not as competitive to get in as the IWW, or probably even Ohio State. Buuuuutttt there is something to be said for easy access to the NYC lit scene for someone whose sole ambition is novel writing. I’d have trouble giving a precise 'ranking,' except to say that I really don’t think it could hurt you, even if it won’t make people stand to attention in the same way that Hunter would in NYC, or IWW/Michigan/Michener/Cornell/Wisconsin/Northwestern/Syracuse/maybe Illinois would in the rest of the US." — "Brooklyn is a prestigious program but the school is way out in Midwood—beautiful campus—which means it’s more isolated than Hunter and NYU which are both in the middle of Manhattan. Have you been accepted to Brooklyn? If so, I highly recommend a visit if you can, and that may help you make up your mind." — "I actually went to Brooklyn my first MFA go-around. I liked it. The faculty is great, the cohorts are usually awesome, etc. They do bring in agents to meet with you and you can easily attend literary things as long as you don’t mind taking the subway for an hour. (And if you do, get over it because that’s just the NY way of life lol.) The money is probably the biggest issue the program has. NYC is expensive and paying tuition on top of that…ooof. But if money isn’t a concern for you…Oh, full disclosure, I got a ton of funding from Brooklyn that basically made most of my tuition free. But I still found it hard to survive in Brooklyn because I’m very very poor and disabled. Again, that may not be your experience."

northwestern university's new dual MFA+MA degree does actually ask students to produce both critical and creative theses (critical in the second year, creative in the third "novel-writing" year) if anyone is interested in that kind of interdisciplinary breadth going into the next cycle: https://english.northwestern.edu/graduate/mfa-ma-program/index.html.

it's always worth it to give yourself more time to learn and improve, particularly as this is only your first year applying to mfas and, as you said, you didn't know much about graduate school going in. it's great that you're trying to stay local and that you have a built-in support system nearby to catch you if you fall, but i wouldn't recommend rushing into a non-funded admission decision your first round when you already cast such a small net. SLC in particular is an unfunded school, in the sense that none of its mfa admits are given full tuition coverage and a stipend (some might come close, but that's still not a fully funded program, which makes its practices financially predatory). to quote from jess sila (an admin of the draft group): "There are many people who get into private programs like Columbia, Sarah Lawrence, Emerson, New School, Cal Arts, and others with such a pittance in support that it makes me uncomfortable to watch. Also, many of these places hand out similar scholarships to all students as a way to prey on their ambitions. If a school gives everyone 50% off of tuition every year, then tuition just costs 50% every year. By giving you a (somewhat false) scholarship, they're just banking on you feeling grateful enough to attend. And I hate that. If you're in a position where an expensive private school is your only acceptance and you can't negotiate better funding, consider taking another year. You can do online or local workshops to strengthen your samples in order to knock it out of the park next year. You also already know the process which is half the battle." you shouldn't feel grateful for an unfunded/partially funded offer, which will invariably be coming your way once you receive funding information, and if you've already experienced acceptance(s) your first round (especially when you applied to so few schools! congrats!), that's a positive indication that you'd likely continue to see success after another year, more research, and greater (self-guided) craft study. if you do another round of applications, i would urge you also to consider looking into CNF programs outside of new york city. you're severely limiting yourself (and doing a great disservice to your talents) by staying local; if nothing else, you should identify and apply to some of the more prestigious fully funded mfa programs across the country to see what might happen. you don't have to accept if any admit you. you don't even have to consider moving, as you'll still have the local mfa circuit to act as safety schools. but you should certainly send a sample in and see how adcoms at the most selective schools respond to your work (you might be surprised by the results). as a CNF writer, you're competing with a much smaller pool of applicants than a fiction writer would be, so the odds are in your favor. i say this for a few reasons: applying to only 3 mfa programs is extremely risky (5-10 is more typical and promises much safer results—mix in some unfunded, perhaps a low-res, and also a number of selective, fully funded programs); you never know where your writing might pull you, how much money schools might throw at you for it, and how this might change the course of your life and the trajectory of your career; to repeat an often used cliché, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. most people receive straight rejections their first year, so you're in a great spot right now. of course, wait to see what SLC says about funding to crunch the numbers, but remember that you shouldn't be taking out any kind of loan (or spreading yourself thin, financially speaking) for a school you're not totally 100% sold on and absolutely ecstatic to attend. to echo what others have said, if this was a program you'd done extensive research on, was housed on your dream campus/location, boasted a slew of professors whose writing you totally adored/wanted mentorship from, and so on and so forth, then taking out small loans with family support and a job cushion would be less shortsighted. but you have to think long-term and remember that you only get to do your mfa once (unless you drop out/have horrible experiences during your first, which is a whole other beast). go all out. take your time. have a plan a, b, c, d, e, f, g, and h. apply to as many schools as you can. cast a wide net. look into schools with full funding (that means 100% tuition remission guaranteed to every admit, ON TOP of a livable stipend and perhaps also summer funding). ask yourself also what you hope to get out of an mfa. if you want to emerge with a manuscript that will very quickly secure you agents and a contract, you should be looking at more prestigious, flashy schools with a dedicated record of award-winning graduates; they'll be more eye-catching to pub houses, will make networking easier, and these programs might even bring agents to YOU during your stay. if you want to teach, or don't want to teach, factor this in. if you want to be able to take 2 classes a week while spending the rest of your time writing your book on your own terms, look into NYU. if you want to work with literary magazines, look into that. if you think 2 years is too little time to really invest yourself in a project, explore 3-year programs. funding isn't rare, per se. it just requires effort to secure, and you'll only secure it if you're applying to fully funded programs. don't tell yourself it's rare/impossible. first try. i know you said you only want to go to those 3 schools, but you might change your mind in a year after more meticulous research. NYU does in fact offer a few fully funded spots with fellowships for their "greatest" talent. it's a two-year program, so it WILL fly by, and many either love or hate its unstructured nature (teaching is not required, though you'll be paid $6,000 per class if you want that experience, and you won't be forced to be on campus every day of the week). there are excellent teachers there and though it's not as "rigorous," as some programs, it's still selective and produces the odd raven leilani. all in all, take a breather, bask in your successes, and consider trying again next year. as long as you're putting in the work, your writing will always get better with time, so your chances improve the slower you go. trust in your abilities and remember that you are worth full funding. good luck.

to my knowledge, vanderbilt and johns hopkins have both sent out acceptances, waitlists, and rejections across genres (rejections in the last week or so). if you have no correspondence from either, be sure to check your spam folders or reach out to them asking for updates! a number of people have had to do so for different schools because their rejections/waitlist notifications got lost in the ether. not sure about uva though!

draft veterans have said that an nyu waitlist notification essentially guarantees that you'll be paying for at least 50% of tuition, though it's likely that number will be higher (since non-waitlisted admits are the ones who are receiving all the fellowship funding). here's a quote from someone asked if nyu waitlist candidates can expect any $$$: "I highly, highly doubt it as the waitlist follows a short list of fellowship candidates followed by a long list of candidates accepted on half-tuition. Worth asking if there’s any changes since previous years but just posting this as I personally am declining and recommend prioritizing firm funded offers!" on the off chance that a fully funded nyu admit declines their offer, one of the 50% tuition admits will be moved up and considered for that fellowship. and if one of the 50% tuition admits declines, a waitlist candidate will take their place. so the trickle down funding effect isn't ideal. between the new school and nyu, nyu is by far and large the more competitive, prestigious program, and more consistently produces award-winning authors. my impression of new school, based on what i've seen from applicants/admits/veterans, is that it's less competitive (historically speaking, the program has been known to accept a far greater number of applicants than the average mfa, so it's garnered a reputation for being "non-selective" and super expensive) and its funding situation is worse than nyu's. new school at best offers 75% tuition coverage, while nyu does in fact dole out a number of fully funded fellowship offers to admits they consider most competitive/exceptional. teaching opportunities at new school are also lackluster/poorly funded (as teaching is not emphasized in the program). at nyu, every admitted student is guaranteed the opportunity to teach one class (though they can fight for a second if they want). essentially, both programs carry the hallmarks/stigmas of a new york mfa (semi-predatory funding practices in an insanely expensive city that regularly guarantee lifelong student loan debt, small campuses, confusing teaching opportunities), but nyu has a lot of prestige/clout going for it. i personally know a couple of non-writers (as in, they didn't want to make a career of writing / were using the mfa for non-novel-producing reasons) who applied to new school so they could, for example, become better book agents. this is not to say that you can't go to these schools, learn a ton, and come out an even better writer with a publishable manuscript. just that there are drawbacks to the funding situations at both, particularly at a program with less elitist prestige (like new school). one piece of advice i've heard echoed over and over: you should never do a creative graduate degree if the program forces you to take out loans to do so. if you have family/loved ones to support you, come from a background of generational wealth, have built up a huge savings cushion, have a well-paying, full-time job, are living somewhere inexpensive, etc etc, there's obviously more nuance to the decision, but having to take out $10k in loans each semester to attend new school (as i've seen graduates discuss on draft) is never worth it. you can diy your degree and still get a novel published without debilitating yourself financially (or you can take a year to study craft on your own and reapply to funded programs). as for "getting off a waitlist," it's really just a game of chance most of the time. there's no foolproof method for getting into a school off a waitlist, and it's often a waiting game that will leave you in suspense until the very last minute; some are notified that they got in past the april 15th deadline. you can try emailing nyu to ask if the waitlist is ranked (so you can potentially figure out your placement / how long the list is), but most schools who don't already tell you that with your waitlist notification probably won't readily give you that information. as for what to do to make clear your interest: email the school expressing how much you'd love to attend, that it's your #1 choice, talk up the program, etc etc etc. you can also email a second time (at a later date) to request updates on waitlist movement, or follow draft to monitor declined acceptances. to my knowledge, nyu's waitlist for its mfa is quite large, so you're less likely to get in than at a program who admits, for example, 2-3 fiction writers each cycle. i've seen some people on draft say that waitlist candidates can send adcoms more of their writing/links to published work to nudge nudge them, but i don't know how effective that would be (and i'm more inclined to believe that sending unsolicited writing would only backfire).