spunky

that is *exactly* what i was thinking about when i read this.

the thing is (and i think i mentioned this in another thread somewhere) GRE scores are interpreted contingent on the rest of your application. like if sent out an application and you had like, i dunno, say 1 or 2 published articles in high-impact factor, peer-reviewed journals that would probably put you ahead of anyone, regardless of whatever GRE score you'd get. but when you start looking like "every other candidate" then small differences like this do matter. like, i quickly googled NorthWestern U like you mentioned and in their website they say they receive over 300 applications/year, out of which only around 25 are granted acceptance. that means not even 10% of the people who apply get accepted (and they didn't break down it by program numbers which means it could potentially be even less for clinical). research experience is probably your strongest suit when it comes to applications to graduate programs. you said you had quite a bit of it. is any of it published? oh, and i would never discourage anyone to study more math. but for your very specific case, maybe you just need to practice all the usual "tricks" related to the quant section of the GRE in order to improve your score? or maybe you can do both if you want so you've both getting a refresher of your math AND practice the little quant strategies that will boost your score

tricky, tricky situation... particularly because when you apply to clinical programs you're competing against a lot of well-qualified candidates. when you say "significant research experience", does that include published articles? that could potentially compensate for it. and i'm not trying to be mean or anything... but like you didn't even crack the 50th percentile. practicing questions for this one helps a lot. when you say you could take "college algebra" do you mean linear algebra/matrix theory? a good grade there could probably help because you can demonstrate competence at a higher level of mathematics that could make up for that lower score. or maybe you just need to practice more questions, re-take and that would be enough. but i have to say that my vote would be more on the side of "study/practice and re-take", just to be on the sure side.

well, this is not necessarily the case. most traditional (and, usually, prestigious) programs in clinical psychology follow the boulder model of the "scientist-practitioner" where you're expected both to do research *AND* have supervised practicum hours so that you can go out and become a therapist/clinician when you finish your PhD. neuropsych programs do not necessarily include this practicum component, so you're basically trained as a researcher and only do research. now, it is entirely possible that you could end up with an adivsor with a strong neuro/biopsych background and your formation would be entirely within that context, but that's entirely up to you and the kind of clinical model you prefer. clinical programs are, by far, the mos popular ones for people who have their eyes set on becoming therapists (unless you also count programs like counselling and social work) but neuropsych is pretty popular as well. it is even more popular now that all this sophisticated brain imaging technology has become available so i really wouldn't bank my expectations on "this program is unpopular, i'll probably be able to get in". if you really want to play the numbers game in terms of popularity/number of applicants, i would have to suggest my own field: quantitative psychology, where potential advisors really feel lucky if we they maybe 5 or 6 applicants every year. that's probably why we also have the best job prospects among the various areas of psychology. i mean, if you wanna talk about "tedious courses" try measurement, psychometric and statistics courses

it's tricky, more than anything. and the tricky part stems from the fact that you're expected to be able to both recognize and apply psychological theories and concepts more than memorizing facts about them. i only remember one or two questions related to my field (so in the methods/statistics section of the exam) but i remember going "oh boy. this is one of those questions where unless you really understand this stuff you're just gonna fall for the tricks".

something important to keep in mind regarding the role of your GRE scores in social science programs is that their impact is contingent on the rest of your application. like say you're quant GRE score is... well, not quite as expected but you got A's in your introductory and advanced research methods courses and maybe a conference or a poster presentation. i would say that compensate for a low GRE score since you have other (arguably more relevant) ways to demonstrate competence. the problem is when your profile as a candidate is just... well... "average", for lack of a better term. i mean, if your application looks like 100 other ones, then admission committees do start paying attention to smaller things like (GRE scores) in order to decide who gets in the first round of acceptances, and someone who looks just like you (application-wise) but with a better GRE score could be preferred over you.

as a non-psychology major talking to another i would strongly suggest you take the test. if you had a more 'traditional' background (i.e. major/honours in psych) you could probably skip it but i've found psych programs tend to be very, very picky with the people they let in and the moment you deviate from the standard candidate, it raises a red flag (unless you deviate in a REALLY good way). years after i applied to my MA program my thesis advisor told me that i was sort of on the chopping block during the application process because of not having a psych BA or BSc but that my stellar score on the subject GRE (because i studied like CRAZY for it) was what saved me... and it sort of makes sense. as i assume it happens in most grad psych programs, you don't just only take courses directly related to your field. you'll have to get a few credits from maybe a social or personality psych course or a biopsych course and if you don't have degree in psych, it begs the question of whether you can handle these courses or not (which i'm sure you can, but admission committees don't know that). at this point, the only solid proof you can provide that you're well-versed in the major areas of psych would be the subject GRE.

i know this has nothing to do with the present topic but that post above kinda reminded me of this one XD

ha!!! PREACH IT!

yeah, it is. but when i said "cliquey" i didn't quite mean "they lock themselves up in their frat houses and don't emerge until they graduate" i didn't do anything to actively pursue their friendship. they just happen to work in one of the labs i do data analysis for and since they collect the data, i have to supervise them very closely. they're nice guys, for the most part. experience has taught me that the douchiness factor is directly proportional to the number of fraternity 'brothers' they're with. when in isolation, they tend to be quite approachable.

the issue i see with top programs is that *SO* many people apply to them and there are *SO* many qualified candidates, that small differences (which should mostly be irrelevant), can be the difference between getting an acceptance or a rejection letter.

well, i am not a member of any fraternity either, but i do know a few guys in the Beta Theta Pi local chapter of UBC to sort of get an idea of how it is and i guess in terms of whether St John/Green College would offer the same sense of "brother/sisterhood" as one of these fraternities (which i'm guessing it's what the OP is going for) i would have to say it's not really the same. i don't really know St John but i used to date someone who lived @Green College so i know the inner works of that one a better. and i mean, sure, you do eat with other graduate students and you could sort of get involved in things like, i dunno, the Holidays dinner and stuff like that. but unless you made a decent effort, like you said, to reach out and meet other people it was pretty much like living in any other apartment. the guy i was seeing at that time just knew the person he lived with and his next-door neighbour and he had been there for 5 months when i first met him. every now and then we would have casual, 15-20min conversations with a few other students during dinner and that was about it. but those fraternity thingies... oh wow... those people really get into it. like when they do that "Storm the Wall" event they usually sign up together and go to the gym and train together and just to do stuff together all the time. i do get why undergrads develop brother/sister-like bonds. you just do a lot of stuff together with other people. my guess is that us, in graduate school, are just super busy with research and teaching and grant applications and conferences, etc. so we don't really have much time left in the day to sort of work on developing the bonds that fraternities/sororities foster by the very virtue of just having a lot of time to do so. i guess it's just a natural part of becoming an adult... developing and fostering relationships just becomes a lot more difficult the older you get. that's just a fact of life. i tangentially referred to the "secret society" stuff because i remember hearing that people like freemasons referred to each other as 'brothers' and stuff like that. so i kind of assumed something like "oh look... it's like a frat but for older, more 'professional' people". although i'm darn sure they don't have toga parties

you mean Green College @UBC? i dunno... like, would you say it feels like a "community" ? i've spent a few weekends there and it really feels more like just people living in a condo sharing some space. heck, it's actually quite easy to just move around there without anyone noticing you (with the sole exception of when new people come in). i really don't think there is much out there after undergrad in terms of having "brotherhood"-type relationships... unless you're a freemason or one of those "secret societies" (ok, not-so-secret, maybe) and even when they do those get-togethers they seem pretty boring, to be honest :/

kinda like out of curiosity more than anything else... the three posts i've read from you (including this one) are all about fraternities. how to get into one if you're in graduate school, how do you think the people in them would perceive you, etc. is this like part of a research program you're interested in?

i think it would... unless you're applying to top programs (like you mentioned in your original post). keep in mind you'll be one among hundreds of potential applicants and there're usually less than 10 openings (or so) for new grad students to fill in. you wanna make sure you're giving it your best shot.

i think that's very university-dependent. Greek life in my uni is SUPER cliquey

social life? in graduate school? what is this strange entity you speak of? meh, i guess it's just what you make of it. if you have a lab/research group you regularly work with, they'll probably become your immediate social group. if you don't have one or don't really get along well with them...well... then things can get really tough

i think the more we repeat it the more it'll start sinking in because seriously, YoungR3b3l, this is starting to get hold. you flunked the GRE. boo-Fing-hoo. get over yourself and study more for the next time. or just aim for less prestigious universities. or go to Europe. or stay in your home country. or just do something and stop complaining about "the system"!

I don’t really think there is much of an ‘outrage’ in terms of whether or not the odds are stacked against international students when coming to North America to study. It seems more of an issue that YoungR3b3l is raising concerning his/her specific case of not making it to his/her program of choice and trying to understand why. Nevertheless, though, I do think it’s important to mention that even if things are a little tougher for us, int’l students, the system is still pretty fair. It’s up to *us* (and not the university) to do our job to make sure our qualifications are top-notch, our English is decent enough and that we will contribute to the university (or the country we’re in) the same we’re taking from it, whether it’s through our money, our talent or both. If we can’t do it, well then tough luck and try again next time. You can’t get everything for free and as much as this playing field tends to favour a certain type of int’l student (e.g. those who can self-fund, those who have taken English lessons from an early age so they’ve mastered it, who are familiar with the Western school system, etc.) it also guarantees that the departments will get the best candidates for the best positions. University departments are not charities and each potential thesis advisor is going to invest his/her time and energy to mentor his/her students so they can become top notch scholars. Whether money opens doors to graduate departments or not seems irrelevant. Money opens doors to EVERYTHING… graduate programs, work placements, public office, etc. It isn’t fair, but that’s how the system works. If you don’t have the money to help you out then make sure your own talents and qualifications will speak for themselves the moment an admission committee deliberates whether or not you should be accepted.

i know it is super boring but from an (ex-) international student to another i'd strongly recommend you do it (i think i said on my first post on your thread?) the fact of the matter is that there isn't anything particularly challenging in the verbal GRE *IF* you know all those weird words they throw at you. i mean, analogies are just analogies... unless you have no clue of what the word means so you can't relate them. just take it one step at a time... get one of those GRE word lists and do 10 or 20 every day. then add another 10 or 20 and so on until the exam comes. just to be on the safe side i memorized maybe close to 600-700 words? (although if you ask me about any of those today i ain't got no clue )

SHHH!!! all those people are potential future clients of the likes of me! the less they know about this stuff the more i can charge them!

well... i mean, it could definitely be better since you barely cracked above the 60th percentile... but i would wait until you get the analytics section score. if it's stellar + you've got a nice TOEFL score, i think you're on the safe side for the non-top schools you mentioned and somewhere in the middle for the top schools. your profile looks strong though. got any conferences/posters/publications to sparkle it up?

this is quite interesting because that was actually sort of my case. my program is unfunded. most people apply with funding coming from some sort of agency (which i was ineligible at the time because i was an international student) and there are no RA/TAships until the PhD level (and those few and far in-between and not very well-paid anyway). there is even a note on the website when you apply not to get discouraged if you don't receive an acceptance letter because most of the applications get rejected due to lack of funding. another international student told me that, when he applied, he printed out some personal financial statements and attached them to his application, just barely making reference to them in his SOI. so i did the same thing (and asked my mom for some extra $$$ so the financial statements would look flashier) and got in. my advisor never mentioned whether that was a factored in my acceptance or not (and i never asked) but most students senior to me said it must've played a role because applying without proof of funding in this program almost amounts to asking for a rejection letter. i guess at the end of the day you just use whatever you can to get in, cross your fingers and hope for the best.

there are like SO many positive things out there that work!!! a gym buddy of man (who's a HUGE fan of Wentworth Miller from 'Prison Break') said his motivation was saying "i wanna look like someone Wentworth would consider dating". imagine how happy he was when Wentworth came out of the closet a few months ago i think right now i just abide by John Lennon's maxim: "whatever gets you through the night... it's alright"

well... i've been wondering since today in the morning whether or not i should answer your question because how i do it is not pretty, and i don't think i would recommend it to anyone but myself (i'm not even sure it would work in anyone else. i guess on some people, maybe). as a disclaimer, i'm the least-likely person that you'd ever find in a gym. i have never been physically dexterous and i was always picked last for teams in PE. i also got bullied a lot. actually, one of the silver linings of the budget cuts in elementary/middle school was that PE was the first thing to go out the window. living a sedentary lifestyle plus not eating healthy made get heavier and heavier. i would always try to volunteer for people doing research in kinesiology and nutrition (i figured i could get a free personal trainer/dietitian) in order to get in shape, but the fact of the matter is that, regardless of what i tried, i always ended up falling off the bandwagon. eventually i couldn't take it any longer and started doing something pretty sad: i fat-shamed myself. i would stand in front of the mirror during the night, before going to bed, and would say horrible things to my reflection. sometimes i was so hurtful i made myself cry. after maybe a couple of weeks of doing that i stopped feeling sad and then i started feeling very, very angry. i was very angry at myself both for being so harsh and for not stepping up and *doing* something to stop it. it didn't take me long to start going to the gym rigorously, at 7am sharp, 2 hours monday to saturday. i'd learnt about proper nutrition from all my times as a research subject so i was also very strict with my food and knew what to get. if i felt a craving for stuff like ice-cream (which i love), it would trigger my anger and i would stop craving it. if i felt too tired to go to the gym, i would start feeling angry again and that would make me want to go. and long and behold the pounds started dropping and i started becoming thinner and healthier. eventually i didn't need to get angry anymore to do it because it had become a habit of my daily routine until i met my boyfriend (now current husband) who sort of took me by the hand to help me move forward in a healtheir way, emotionally. years after that he told me that i played a very dangerous game with what i did, because i could have developed an eating disorder or just sink in depression. maybe he is right, maybe he is not. but all i can say is that i'm glad things turned out well because i finally feel the way i've wanted to feel all my life. so my motivation to keep going to the gym is the fear of falling off the wagon again and the self-hatred that would come with it. you be the judge of whether that works for you or not.