spunky

UNLESS.... you're a quant! (sorry, i have to promote it everywhere i can. i was going over the Psychometrika yearly report of PhD graduates in Quant Psych and the outlook is dismal. it seems like this lack of readiness in mathematics from high school is translating into programs shrinking rather quickly. in last year's conference in the Netherlands someone even jokingly said that if it were not for international students, many of these programs would already be extinct, like it's happening with Mathematical Psychology...)

i know!!! and, trust me, i've been looking around for it. still, in this economy, the only thing i can assume is that things have taken a turn for the worst (less people retiring, more people graduating, less job openings).

your question reminded me of a chart APA did a while ago. i do need to mention it's somewhat old so things have certainly changed but they showed # of PhDs earned VS # of job openings: http://www.apa.org/research/tools/quantitative/index.aspx?item=6 from the looks of it, Developmental Psych has the hardest time whereas Quantitative Psychology is the easiest. i don't know as many people in other departments but from experience (i'm in Quant Psych/Psychometrics) it's really easy to get a job if you're willing to re-locate to the U.S. (seriously you get weekly emails with tenure-track positions that don't sound too shabby).

well... then i do have to suggest you consider graduate school very carefully then. remember that graduate school in Psychology is very much research-oriented. you will be expected to come up with projects and, you know, stick to them until completion. when you write your research statements you'll need to focus on certain (sometimes *very* specific areas) where you will be expected to work on... oh! and don't forget the good, ol' thesis. that can take you months (or, at the doctoral level, years) of focusing on some narrow topic of some narrow field of Psychology. so yeah... graduate school (at least in Psych) takes as much talent as it takes commitment so i think now it's a good chance for you to evaluate whether this works for you or not.

well... what in Psychology interests you? you're not really switching paths too much if you move from Statistics to Quantitative Psychology (that I know from experience). perhaps you're looking for something completely different?

definitely. if you're applying to a Psych Dept they do want to see that you have mastered some psychology. plus remember there's that Psych GRE that i think most programs require you to take in your application. i think the only reason i did well there is because i studied like crazy a week before the exam because deep down i knew i just had not taken enough upper-level Psych credits to actually feel comfortable in taking it.

it's basically an Applied Statistics type of program. emphasis is on practical aspects more than theory (although you can definitely work with theory). you'll take your basic introduction to Statistics, some Regression, ANOVA and then electives around the type of Statistics that were developed mostly for social sciences (like Psychometrics). i do work in Linear Mixed Models (which the field knows as "multilevel models" or " hierarchical linear models"), Structural Equation Modelling and Item Response Theory. for what will hopefully become my dissertation, i am currently working on developing new algorithms to generate multivariate, non-normal data via the use of fifth-order polynomial transformations and vine-copula functions. this year i'm presenting at the Modern Modelling Methods (M3) conference in Connecticut my research on Bayesian estimation of parameters in Exploratory Structural Equation Modelling (another little passion of mine). for non-Statistical, more applied topics i am currently part of a lab that works in text analytics and i am doing some data mining from a national database on depression and suicide which we will hopefully present in this year's APA (American Psychological Association) conference.

i guess it depends on the field of psych you intend to enroll in. i was in a somewhat similar situation to you (i did my BSc in Mathematics back in 2011) and only took 3 psych courses as electives (basic intro to Psych mostly). that was enough to get me into Quantitative Psychology but i don't think i would've been able to get into something like Personality, Cognitive or Social Psychology.

no need to worry about it. i was an international student until relatively recently (last august) here in Vancouver and got in my Master's program because i did my undergrad in Canada (i moved here when i was 19 for my BSc actually). i only needed my TOEFL scores to get into my bachelor's degree. after that, i just needed to show my undergrad transcripts on my application so don't waste your time/money. you'll be OK.

oh c'mooon! things are *just* starting to get interesting. we get like 0 of these ones in Psychology.

favourite.line.EVER. somoene needs to use this as a facebook status or something like that

i did hire someone for my master's thesis. i found it to be the BEST.DECISION.EVER. my APA style sucks and i have very little patience to go over it. i did ask my friends/colleagues but they have their own TAing duties, theses, research etc. so most of them were polite and honest enough to say they wouldn't be able to put in the necessary effort to catch all of my mistakes. i thought (oh foolish me) that as long as i spent maybe a day or two in between proof-reads i should be able to catch my own mistakes. when my adviser returned my first full draft all covered in red, i knew i needed some more professional help.

*UGH* the pettiness of departmental politics for sure. who deserves funding over who, who wants the meeting room, whose classroom is bigger,... i am in the process of crafting a big, nifty poster with all the bells and whistles for my office door where it reads: "Academic politics are so vicious precisely because the stakes are so small" - Kissinger.

yup, that line was pretty clear to me. you know what else was pretty clear? the NONexistent posts targeting you alongside with the one person agreeing with you. it places you on this very awkward position of of appearing to be more judgmental than the people who you are accusing for being judgmental. i am not a Christian, but the whole "first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." comes to mind.

uhmmm...my guess is you're including yourself here because you're preemptively passing judgement on this board?

oh god, this thread is such a GOLDMINE! i really hope that Pinkster12 is real and not trollin' the board..

well, i did my BSc in Mathematics and found the classes to be VERY easy and VERY manageable. i did realize that some of the peeps who came from a Psych-only background struggled a little bit (depending on the prof, mostly) but nothing too crazy. the Multivariate Stats i took in the Psych dept was an EXTREMELY watered-down version of the introduction to linear algebra course i took as an undergrad. the emphasis on most of these programs is more on applications than theoretical developments, so as long as you have an intuition for numbers you should be fine. still, learning following the theorem-proof-theorem-proof method is always an advantage, particularly if you need to read theoretical papers. what i can say helps you out A LOT is if you're a good computer programmer. being good at programming and working in syntax-exclusive environment (so no drop-down menus like SPSS) is a *must* in this field. particularly if you like Fordham's program. R (the statistical computing environment) will become your new best friend. if it doesn't, then SAS or Stata will. so if you're not already familiar with any of these three, i'd suggest you start learning them fast

yup, yup. here's a really good one: http://www.apa.org/research/tools/quantitative/index.aspx?item=2 the APA website is, in general, a pretty awesome resource when it comes to getting acquainted with Quant Psych. we are still a dying breed that is very much in demand so APA's doing the best it can to try and keep this important branch of Psychology alive... (without too much success, i must add)

i don't mean to sound disparaging but, after checking it out, i can't say it looks too different from any other Quantitative Psychology program out there... maybe because of the internship?

and to those people i'd say my favourite quote from Brian Kenney (from the oh-so-awesome-show Queer as Folk): "There is Nothing Noble in Being Poor"

well, in terms of living expenses, it appears that Vancouver's not only a very expensive city but *the* most expensive city to live in North America. i remember i had heard something like that a few months ago so just by googling it i was able to find plenty of articles like this one: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/02/06/vancouver-most-expensive-city-to-live-economist_n_2631806.html from my friends who used to live in cities that, well, seem more expensive (e.g. Toronto, New York, etc.) what they told is not that Vancouver is expensive in itself, but that it is expensive relative to the income people earn. (i.e. people here get paid less than in other places but the prices of things don't reflect that, so they seem high). the good thing is that you have a plan to finance your education (even if it means getting into debt) and there is quite a bit of job security whenever you study statistics/research methods. not many people take up these programs but we are still needed so i think your chances for finding a job are better than if you chose a different path. good luck with it.

not necessarily. not everyone gets funding and some people never get it. as i guess you can imagine, getting into the MERM program (or i guess the majority of programs out there) does *not* guarantee funding. you have to apply for it. just make sure you're that you're a competitive candidate (e.g. good grades, publications, letters of reference, etc.) because there are thousands of students wishing to get money but only a handful can get it. what happens to students that don't get funding, you ask... well, it can get very tricky. in my experience, people with no funding get their money elsewhere (from their parents, most likely) OR you get it from borrowing money like student loans and work another full-time job to make sure you can pay for your education and your living expenses. student loans + another job is what i see most people do to pay for their tuition. so if you have no ability to obtain funding (either from grants, scholarships, your parents, etc.) i'd ask you to seriously consider whether graduate school (or UBC) is a good option for you. it is definitely possible to get through a Masters/PhD without funding but i have seen some of the problems people get themselves into (like getting behind in their research/courses because their jobs take too much time) when they have no funding and, trust me, the results aren't pretty. you just need to be ready to make some sacrifices. and do keep in mind, by the way, that vancouver *IS* one of the most expensive cities in North America to live in.

I think you will be OK with applying to the MERM program at UBC. it's a good program and i have found they doevaluate their candidates in a much more holistic fashion. do you already have some research area/topics you'd like to work on? or any potential profs you'd like as advisers?

i cannot say about McMaster and York, but i know for a fact that UBC will *not* take you in its Quant Psych program unless you can guarantee some funding ($$$). you will have to take the GRE as well in this case. OR are you considering the MERM (Measurement Evaluation and Research Methodology) program at UBC and the MEC (Measurement Evaluation and Cognition) from U.Alberta? Those are housed in the Faculty of Education though, not in the Dept of Psychology. in my opinion, i would say you're OK for the MERM/MEC programs but i won't think you'd make it in UBC's Quant Psych program. so i guess it depends on which program you'd like to apply to.

my sister-in-law was (well, still is) in a situation similar to what you're describing. she did her PhD in Psycholinguistics and a lack of employment opportunities in academia led her to work for her school district as a Speech Pathologist (she did have to further her training though). it may not have been her desired career choice, but the job she has now at least pays the bills. i think the fact that you're focused on language gives you a wider variety of options if you're willing to work in a medical or school setting.