UnlikelyGrad

Did anyone else find it hard to write the "Summary of Goals" statement? I felt like it was impossible to cram everything they asked for into 3000 characters. I write pretty concisely, but I think that 4000 characters would have been the minimum necessary to address all their topics.

One of my friends, who's a career counselor, said she asks her clients what three careers they would pick if they could be anything they wanted. I like that question better than the one the OP posed, so here are my answers: astronaut astrobiologist hot-shot search & rescue professional

It's a little simplistic to say that that's all you need in the sciences. What about the ability to think outside of the box--to do things without being told exactly what to do by your advisor--to see something going wrong and figure out that it means that your original hypothesis is wrong, but the phenomenon could be explained by______? FWIW, I started at 37. No experience in industry, and only one year as a post-bac (age 36) taking classes and doing research. My PI was really impressed by my performance--I picked up the skills I needed faster than the other two in lab (having had to teach myself so much for so long, learning new things was a piece of cake), and I was always thinking about the research from interesting angles. Whenever I had free time, like when I was waiting for a simulation to finish, I'd mess around, trying to apply different principles to the same situation. I *never* would have done this if I'd gone to grad school straight out of undergrad. I'm not old, just aged to perfection.

Do they have funding for you? Just curious...because I probably would have gone to Davis if they'd had the money to pay me. Of course, I had applied to one of their interdisciplinary grad programs (Agricultural & Environmental Chemistry), so would only have been able to TA if the chem department had a slot for me (which rarely happened, as they gave out most TAships to actual chem students), plus most of the people doing research in environmental stuff were funded by CA state agencies which had no money to give out that year. Your situation is probably completely different. I think Davis is a really cool town, and UCD is a great school--though a little large for my tastes.

I did.

Yep. He got all A's as well, though one was an A- (which means he got a 3.9 GPA for the quarter). I don't think my school gives plus or minus grades, so it's really not fair to say I got a better GPA than him but...it's just so fun to rub it in. He started school right after I went back for my postbac work--I have three semesters to his four quarters--and so far I'm ahead overall, not just this last grading period. As you can tell, I'm an incredibly competitive sort--who else would gloat about beating their own child?

I agree. I call everyone Dr. Something unless they specifically ask me to do otherwise. But then I too am a professor's daughter. It really irks me when I hear undergrads, especially, who just assume they can call professors by their first name...one in particular made me roll his eyes when he referred to a professor by his formal name--when I knew for a fact that the professor preferred the short version (e.g. Tim vs. Timothy). Note that, like a previous poster, I feel like my professors are friends and colleagues rather than big, scary types (which I did as an undergrad). But still like to indicate my respect for them by addressing them formally unless they tell me to do otherwise.

Geochemistry--environmental stuff, specifically contaminated soil and groundwater. Why? I am a gardener. I love dirt. Can't escape the chemistry--it's in my blood. Used to do volunteer work with firefighters and learned interesting stuff about toxic waste.

4.0!! I wasn't expecting that... thought I would get a B in one of my classes. I think the prof must have decided to grade on a curve after all.

One offer I got (actually the one I ended up accepting) had a response deadline of March 31. When I visited (mid-March) I asked why, and mentioned that one of my school visits wasn't scheduled until April 2. They were happy to give me extra time to decide--but told me, very plainly, that if I was going to reject them, they'd prefer that I do it well before April 15. This would give them time to extend funded offers to other applicants.

That would be nice, but I don't know how common it is. My sister said that her school reduced her stipend by the exact amount of the NSF stipend. (This was in the days before the NSF paid much, so the school stipend was actually higher.) Needless to say, she was a bit miffed.

I look young too. But my sister (one of those mentioned above who landed a TT position at 39, who also looked young at my age) said that she definitely encountered age-ism on the academic job market. I got my bachelor's in 1993--kind of hard to hide my age. From what I've seen, there are places which require you to send your transcripts, not just your CV, when applying for a job. Do your transcripts have your DOB on there? I think mine do...

"Try" being the operative word, eh?

Yup. People said this to me all the time too..."You are so smart, of course they will want you." Yes, I am smart and I aced the GRE (ducks to avoid flying tomatoes)--but I also all-but-flunked-out of school after my sophomore year, and I was trying to get into physical science programs with no research experience at all. One person told me, "Stanford and Harvard would be lucky to have you." Yes, but they wouldn't want me!! There are no guarantees in grad school admissions. I didn't get in to two of my three safety schools (keep in mind that my stats were WAAAAY above their averages), but I did get into a highly-ranked program I applied to on a whim more than anything. Go figure! ...And now that I'm applying for fellowships I hear the same thing. "Of course you'll get funding." Ha. I was actually grateful when my dad told me, "You know, the odds that you'll get an NSF fellowship are pretty low. They like hot shots, and you're not a hot shot yet." Of course it was a bit depressing to think about but it was nice to hear the truth instead of platitudes!

Been there, done there, got the T-shirt. Though I was 16, not 17, and didn't fail quite as many courses as you. (But enough that I left the school in the middle of the school term, because it was clear that if I stuck around until grades came in they would kick me out.) I didn't address it at all. Instead, I focused my SoP on the positives: what I'd done with my life that was GOOD. If people wanted to know about why I'd totally screwed up, they asked--and I told them. Look. I was stupid. Aren't we all stupid at 16? I got into 4 out of 9 schools, so I guess at least some people were willing to look past it.

I've heard both: that you should get as many "big names" on your resume as possible, and that you should try to find an advisor who will take a personal interest in you (not just your research). I applied to both sorts of schools and was accepted at both. The fact that I am where I am, instead of the top-10 school that accepted me, tells you which of the two schools of thought I ended up subscribing to. I like the idea of doing a post-doc at a well-known school.

Despite my research background (my former PI was a HA student who hobnobbed with VP) I'm not really into theoretical chemistry myself. I asked about your Berkeley interests because my sister did theoretical chem at Berkeley and had a bad experience with her advisor. The guy isn't one of your possibilities though so I think you're safe.

I would list it. Doesn't the NDSEG application ask you which other fellowships you're applying for, anyway? The NSF and NDSEG applications are both overseen by the same agency (ASEE) anyway, and I think they might share data. I'm applying too, BTW.

Wow. Not Stanford? If you're going for UCLA, Berkeley, and Tech, why not go for the fourth big California theoretical chem powerhouse? They have Hans Andersen and Vijay Pande (big names in the business!) and the area is beautiful. Who do you want to work with at Berkeley?

I went back and checked, and applying to the chemistry department is still free for domestic applicants. I can't speak for other departments though. I attended 5 schools: 2 community colleges ($3/transcript); 1 incredibly well-known university ($7/transcript), my alma mater, a state school ($4 for first transcript, $2 for additional ordered at the same time), and the state university where I did my post-bac work (free). Amazingly, both state universities are California schools (both CSU system)--I would have thought that they, at least, would have the same fee structure!

The UC Davis app was my least favorite app of the 9 I submitted last year. I believe I alluded to my professional & career goals in the first one (a couple of sentences) and then fleshed them out in the second one. Then I had to write the diversity essay. I thought my essays sucked, but I got in. Go figure.

When I was applying for fellowships earlier this year, my current advisor told me that (1) It would look bad if the *only* people I got to write LoRs were from my old school, and (2) It would also look bad if I didn't get my former research advisor to write me a LoR. I figured she knew what she was talking about and went for the mix.

Notre Dame was free for domestic students. I almost applied for that very reason...until I realized that I didn't want to go there. Do remember that even though the app itself is free, you still have to pay ETS for another score, plus transcript fees. (I had to send transcripts from 5 schools so the latter was not inconsequential.)

It may vary from school to school. I'm pretty sure UC Davis was 5000 including spaces. The NDSEG fellowship is 3000 including spaces. So...I would assume that it includes spaces.

If you are extremely pessimistic, you can't be disappointed, right?