belowthree

Don't most programs factor in the attrition rate before e-mailing out accepts/rejects?

You know, not to rain on anyone's dreams, but I imagine most departments past a certain size get pretty good at this and the statistics don't vary that widely from year to year. (I know at my current institution they don't, the school keeps a public dataset. )

1) Roll out of bed, straight into the lab.
2) Ethernet connection.

Social scene? What are you, an undergrad?

1) Roll out of bed, straight into the lab.
2) Ethernet connection.

I've been lurking for awhile. I'm new to actually posting to the board though, so hi. My way of saying hi is to make a thread for folks who have GPAs under a 3.0 but are applying to programs anyways.

You'd be surprised how different things are applying with a GPA this bad. Not necessarily terrible, just different.

Anyone else in this situation?

Unfortunate and probably not very funny but related comments that we'll generously refer to as humor:


[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when someone asks you what your safety schools are and you stare back at them unsure of what those two words together might actually mean.
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when you don't meet the minimum requirements for any of the programs you applied to.
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when you can't take getting recommended for admission by the department for granted as getting approved by the graduate college can actually present a challenge.
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when you describe your transcript as "colorful."
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when, in a desperate search for safe schools, you catch yourself wondering if your local community college is a PhD granting institution. (You quickly realize that even if they were they wouldn't have funding for you anyways, then you remember they don't even grant four-year degrees.)
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when you realize that as much as you'd like to stay in a certain geographic area, all those schools are too hard to get into and so you need to apply more broadly.
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when your "what are you going to do now" fantasy simply consists of you walking around for an entire day uttering no words other than the phrase "I did it."
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when you know for certain that all of your friends will know exactly what that means.
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when you actually start to believe that any acceptance letters you receive are more likely to be mistakes than legitimate offers for admission.
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when whenever you tell someone you got accepted somewhere their first words aren't "Congratulations" but "Really?"
[*:21esys8v]And how could we forget the classic: You know you have under a 3.0 when you wince every time someone online comforts another stressed out applicant by telling them "well at least your GPA is over a three so things won't be that bad."

This thread was the one that made me finally write e-mails to the programs I won't be attending this fall and let them know. I only made my decision recently, but I was having some trouble getting to the point where I was willing to close the other doors.

Once you get going it's not that bad. I only thought I was going to let one of the places know, (and then slowly close the others as I became absolutely sure) but then once I got rolling I realized I was already sure and I ended up sending five e-mails to three institutions. (Usually the prof I was in contact with + the grad coordinator.) I thanked everyone involved and 30 minutes later I had both let the programs know and made a steak for breakfast.

It's painless once you start. I'm going to eat my breakfast now.

I've been lurking for awhile. I'm new to actually posting to the board though, so hi. My way of saying hi is to make a thread for folks who have GPAs under a 3.0 but are applying to programs anyways.

You'd be surprised how different things are applying with a GPA this bad. Not necessarily terrible, just different.

Anyone else in this situation?

Unfortunate and probably not very funny but related comments that we'll generously refer to as humor:


[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when someone asks you what your safety schools are and you stare back at them unsure of what those two words together might actually mean.
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when you don't meet the minimum requirements for any of the programs you applied to.
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when you can't take getting recommended for admission by the department for granted as getting approved by the graduate college can actually present a challenge.
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when you describe your transcript as "colorful."
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when, in a desperate search for safe schools, you catch yourself wondering if your local community college is a PhD granting institution. (You quickly realize that even if they were they wouldn't have funding for you anyways, then you remember they don't even grant four-year degrees.)
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when you realize that as much as you'd like to stay in a certain geographic area, all those schools are too hard to get into and so you need to apply more broadly.
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when your "what are you going to do now" fantasy simply consists of you walking around for an entire day uttering no words other than the phrase "I did it."
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when you know for certain that all of your friends will know exactly what that means.
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when you actually start to believe that any acceptance letters you receive are more likely to be mistakes than legitimate offers for admission.
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when whenever you tell someone you got accepted somewhere their first words aren't "Congratulations" but "Really?"
[*:21esys8v]And how could we forget the classic: You know you have under a 3.0 when you wince every time someone online comforts another stressed out applicant by telling them "well at least your GPA is over a three so things won't be that bad."

I picked out a bottle of late harvest wine at Trader Joe's for each of the professors who wrote my letters. For the outside researcher I arraigned to have a fifth of bourbon placed on his desk.

I'm not sure I'd recommend this though, it's easy to go wrong. I don't think there's one good answer to what to get someone. The things I gave were pretty personal. The bourbon I gave was my favorite type, (though I actually rarely drink bourbon, but I though he'd appreciate it more than vodka, it was a hunch) the wine I gave was something I had recently taken to, etc... The only reason I was comfortable doing this is I had drank with three of the four of the people who wrote my recs and was pretty sure the fourth wasn't averse to the idea. I didn't know the three profs in a context where I felt comfortable giving them hard alcohol, but a late harvest wine seemed perfect.

Oh, and in an amusing LoR + drinking related story: My friends and I naturally screened the wine for quality before I gave it to my letter writers. Not carefully evaluating the wines would have simply been irresponsible.

So there's one excuse to drink during the application process. (You know, if you didn't already have reasons to drink...)

I've been lurking for awhile. I'm new to actually posting to the board though, so hi. My way of saying hi is to make a thread for folks who have GPAs under a 3.0 but are applying to programs anyways.

You'd be surprised how different things are applying with a GPA this bad. Not necessarily terrible, just different.

Anyone else in this situation?

Unfortunate and probably not very funny but related comments that we'll generously refer to as humor:


[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when someone asks you what your safety schools are and you stare back at them unsure of what those two words together might actually mean.
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when you don't meet the minimum requirements for any of the programs you applied to.
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when you can't take getting recommended for admission by the department for granted as getting approved by the graduate college can actually present a challenge.
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when you describe your transcript as "colorful."
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when, in a desperate search for safe schools, you catch yourself wondering if your local community college is a PhD granting institution. (You quickly realize that even if they were they wouldn't have funding for you anyways, then you remember they don't even grant four-year degrees.)
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when you realize that as much as you'd like to stay in a certain geographic area, all those schools are too hard to get into and so you need to apply more broadly.
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when your "what are you going to do now" fantasy simply consists of you walking around for an entire day uttering no words other than the phrase "I did it."
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when you know for certain that all of your friends will know exactly what that means.
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when you actually start to believe that any acceptance letters you receive are more likely to be mistakes than legitimate offers for admission.
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when whenever you tell someone you got accepted somewhere their first words aren't "Congratulations" but "Really?"
[*:21esys8v]And how could we forget the classic: You know you have under a 3.0 when you wince every time someone online comforts another stressed out applicant by telling them "well at least your GPA is over a three so things won't be that bad."

I've been lurking for awhile. I'm new to actually posting to the board though, so hi. My way of saying hi is to make a thread for folks who have GPAs under a 3.0 but are applying to programs anyways.

You'd be surprised how different things are applying with a GPA this bad. Not necessarily terrible, just different.

Anyone else in this situation?

Unfortunate and probably not very funny but related comments that we'll generously refer to as humor:


[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when someone asks you what your safety schools are and you stare back at them unsure of what those two words together might actually mean.
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when you don't meet the minimum requirements for any of the programs you applied to.
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when you can't take getting recommended for admission by the department for granted as getting approved by the graduate college can actually present a challenge.
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when you describe your transcript as "colorful."
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when, in a desperate search for safe schools, you catch yourself wondering if your local community college is a PhD granting institution. (You quickly realize that even if they were they wouldn't have funding for you anyways, then you remember they don't even grant four-year degrees.)
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when you realize that as much as you'd like to stay in a certain geographic area, all those schools are too hard to get into and so you need to apply more broadly.
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when your "what are you going to do now" fantasy simply consists of you walking around for an entire day uttering no words other than the phrase "I did it."
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when you know for certain that all of your friends will know exactly what that means.
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when you actually start to believe that any acceptance letters you receive are more likely to be mistakes than legitimate offers for admission.
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when whenever you tell someone you got accepted somewhere their first words aren't "Congratulations" but "Really?"
[*:21esys8v]And how could we forget the classic: You know you have under a 3.0 when you wince every time someone online comforts another stressed out applicant by telling them "well at least your GPA is over a three so things won't be that bad."

I've been lurking for awhile. I'm new to actually posting to the board though, so hi. My way of saying hi is to make a thread for folks who have GPAs under a 3.0 but are applying to programs anyways.

You'd be surprised how different things are applying with a GPA this bad. Not necessarily terrible, just different.

Anyone else in this situation?

Unfortunate and probably not very funny but related comments that we'll generously refer to as humor:


[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when someone asks you what your safety schools are and you stare back at them unsure of what those two words together might actually mean.
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when you don't meet the minimum requirements for any of the programs you applied to.
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when you can't take getting recommended for admission by the department for granted as getting approved by the graduate college can actually present a challenge.
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when you describe your transcript as "colorful."
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when, in a desperate search for safe schools, you catch yourself wondering if your local community college is a PhD granting institution. (You quickly realize that even if they were they wouldn't have funding for you anyways, then you remember they don't even grant four-year degrees.)
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when you realize that as much as you'd like to stay in a certain geographic area, all those schools are too hard to get into and so you need to apply more broadly.
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when your "what are you going to do now" fantasy simply consists of you walking around for an entire day uttering no words other than the phrase "I did it."
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when you know for certain that all of your friends will know exactly what that means.
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when you actually start to believe that any acceptance letters you receive are more likely to be mistakes than legitimate offers for admission.
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when whenever you tell someone you got accepted somewhere their first words aren't "Congratulations" but "Really?"
[*:21esys8v]And how could we forget the classic: You know you have under a 3.0 when you wince every time someone online comforts another stressed out applicant by telling them "well at least your GPA is over a three so things won't be that bad."

I've been lurking for awhile. I'm new to actually posting to the board though, so hi. My way of saying hi is to make a thread for folks who have GPAs under a 3.0 but are applying to programs anyways.

You'd be surprised how different things are applying with a GPA this bad. Not necessarily terrible, just different.

Anyone else in this situation?

Unfortunate and probably not very funny but related comments that we'll generously refer to as humor:


[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when someone asks you what your safety schools are and you stare back at them unsure of what those two words together might actually mean.
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when you don't meet the minimum requirements for any of the programs you applied to.
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when you can't take getting recommended for admission by the department for granted as getting approved by the graduate college can actually present a challenge.
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when you describe your transcript as "colorful."
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when, in a desperate search for safe schools, you catch yourself wondering if your local community college is a PhD granting institution. (You quickly realize that even if they were they wouldn't have funding for you anyways, then you remember they don't even grant four-year degrees.)
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when you realize that as much as you'd like to stay in a certain geographic area, all those schools are too hard to get into and so you need to apply more broadly.
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when your "what are you going to do now" fantasy simply consists of you walking around for an entire day uttering no words other than the phrase "I did it."
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when you know for certain that all of your friends will know exactly what that means.
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when you actually start to believe that any acceptance letters you receive are more likely to be mistakes than legitimate offers for admission.
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when whenever you tell someone you got accepted somewhere their first words aren't "Congratulations" but "Really?"
[*:21esys8v]And how could we forget the classic: You know you have under a 3.0 when you wince every time someone online comforts another stressed out applicant by telling them "well at least your GPA is over a three so things won't be that bad."

I think the advice to slow down and consider how much debt the OP has is misplaced.

That was advice that needed to happen 5 years ago. Now the OP is stuck and needs to make a rational decision. If the OP can double his or her earning power (High Ed Administration can be around 6 digits eventually) without doubling his or her debt load (it would be hard to do at this point really...) then it turns out to be a win.

Since the OP is already so deep in debt, even if the OP could only gain an extra 20% in salary, that means it's reasonable for the OP to take on up to 46k of additional debt.

I think in this case if the OP can do the masters in a year and can reasonably expect their salary expectations to go up by more than 20%, it's a win.

(I am not a financial advisor. It sounds like you could use one. Go see one.)

I've been lurking for awhile. I'm new to actually posting to the board though, so hi. My way of saying hi is to make a thread for folks who have GPAs under a 3.0 but are applying to programs anyways.

You'd be surprised how different things are applying with a GPA this bad. Not necessarily terrible, just different.

Anyone else in this situation?

Unfortunate and probably not very funny but related comments that we'll generously refer to as humor:


[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when someone asks you what your safety schools are and you stare back at them unsure of what those two words together might actually mean.
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when you don't meet the minimum requirements for any of the programs you applied to.
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when you can't take getting recommended for admission by the department for granted as getting approved by the graduate college can actually present a challenge.
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when you describe your transcript as "colorful."
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when, in a desperate search for safe schools, you catch yourself wondering if your local community college is a PhD granting institution. (You quickly realize that even if they were they wouldn't have funding for you anyways, then you remember they don't even grant four-year degrees.)
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when you realize that as much as you'd like to stay in a certain geographic area, all those schools are too hard to get into and so you need to apply more broadly.
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when your "what are you going to do now" fantasy simply consists of you walking around for an entire day uttering no words other than the phrase "I did it."
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when you know for certain that all of your friends will know exactly what that means.
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when you actually start to believe that any acceptance letters you receive are more likely to be mistakes than legitimate offers for admission.
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when whenever you tell someone you got accepted somewhere their first words aren't "Congratulations" but "Really?"
[*:21esys8v]And how could we forget the classic: You know you have under a 3.0 when you wince every time someone online comforts another stressed out applicant by telling them "well at least your GPA is over a three so things won't be that bad."

I'm not really in theory, but I know the answers to some of your questions, so I figured I'd answer the parts I can.



A $500,000 grant over three years is a very typical NSF grant size. (All NSF proposals in the small category generally meet this. Typically the proposal asks for ridiculously close to 500k (like 499,938) and the NSF funds whatever they feel like of that. Sometimes it's significantly lower, but almost all grants propose at least $500k of funding.) This typically ends up funding about two students over three years. This may not seem a lot for 500k, but grant accounting can be tricky.

Typically 500k gets broken down something like this:
* A bit over half goes straight off the top to fund overhead costs. This part helps compensate the university for maintaining buildings, supplying power, that type of thing. So now you're looking at 250k. 250k over three years is about 80k a year.
* A bit of that usually goes to the professor for a month of summer funding. The more professors involved in the work, the more months of summer funding that might come out of the grant. (The NSF also limits the amount of total summer funding they'll give, so sometimes this component won't come out of a proposal at all if the professors are already at their summer funding max. This can lead to summer funding for students instead. ) A few spare thousand goes towards travel and equipment budgets each, along with whatever else your grant prep people can come up with. Let's say all this totals 20k/yr. (This estimate is high, usually for a 500k grant these type of annual costs are lower and more money goes to students.)
* So now we're at 60k/yr. Which means you've got about 30k per student: ~20k to cover stipends (usually lower), ~10k for fee remission (usually higher, sometimes considerably at private schools or out of state rates for public schools). (You never see this money, but the reason you don't pay fees is because the grant does.) Grad students tend to cost more than 30k/yr a lot of times, but this is about the lowest you can get a grad student to cost. Depending on how things are run at your institution, this part of the grant can be larger. (Again, this does not always translate into more money for you, it may just be your internal fee remission rates are higher.)

Whether or not they can shoehorn in summer support depends on how much the professor is making, whether or not they even want you around in the summer (some groups prefer their students get some outside perspectives through summer internships) and the internal costs of fee remission within the university campus you're attending.

A rule of thumb is for every 100k of grant money you can fund about one grad-student year of work in CS. (In medical or bio it's completely different because they have all kinds of crazy equipment costs.)



TA is a funding mechanism just like any other. You can use it as long as the department is willing to let you, however often departments prefer to fund only the newer students this way assuming students will eventually go and get real jobs on grants. That said, theory funding can be patchy and a good department provides TAships to senior students if needed usually.

Typically most departments prefer you not TA your entire stay in grad school. You should be doing research, so you should get funded as a researcher.



If your acceptance only mentions 9 months of funding, then you may well only have 9 months of funding. Many many many CS students flock to silicon valley, local companies and a few other hotspots every summer to kick back and spend a few months of the summer joining a team in industry.

Summer funding from grants does happen. TAs sometimes even, though much more rarely. Usually summer funding only happens if there's extra money to go around. It can be a very fine line since most groups have a certain number of students they need to fund, it can be extremely hard to hit exactly the right amount of grant money, so most groups are either over or under. Department funds (here's where some of that grant overhead money comes back) can help backfill groups that are under (this is when senior students get TAs) while summer funding can be an excellent use of money when a group is lucky enough to have a bit more money than they needed. (Very easy to do if you get one extra grant accepted you didn't think was going to make it. You don't hear back for six months on these things, so you have to scatter-shot and if you end up being more successful than you expected, you might actually end up with more funding than students, this usually leads to getting more students, but it can also just result in summer funding or intra-department collaboration.)



Again, I'm not in theory, so this one I can't help too much in detail on, but I can at least tell you that the theory folks do the typical weekly meetings. Whether or not your advisor chooses the path of your research or whether you chose the path of your own work depends on the relationship you two establish. Eventually all students should change from being assigned work to choosing their own work as your career in graduate school progresses.

I've been lurking for awhile. I'm new to actually posting to the board though, so hi. My way of saying hi is to make a thread for folks who have GPAs under a 3.0 but are applying to programs anyways.

You'd be surprised how different things are applying with a GPA this bad. Not necessarily terrible, just different.

Anyone else in this situation?

Unfortunate and probably not very funny but related comments that we'll generously refer to as humor:


[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when someone asks you what your safety schools are and you stare back at them unsure of what those two words together might actually mean.
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when you don't meet the minimum requirements for any of the programs you applied to.
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when you can't take getting recommended for admission by the department for granted as getting approved by the graduate college can actually present a challenge.
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when you describe your transcript as "colorful."
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when, in a desperate search for safe schools, you catch yourself wondering if your local community college is a PhD granting institution. (You quickly realize that even if they were they wouldn't have funding for you anyways, then you remember they don't even grant four-year degrees.)
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when you realize that as much as you'd like to stay in a certain geographic area, all those schools are too hard to get into and so you need to apply more broadly.
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when your "what are you going to do now" fantasy simply consists of you walking around for an entire day uttering no words other than the phrase "I did it."
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when you know for certain that all of your friends will know exactly what that means.
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when you actually start to believe that any acceptance letters you receive are more likely to be mistakes than legitimate offers for admission.
[*:21esys8v]You know you have under a 3.0 when whenever you tell someone you got accepted somewhere their first words aren't "Congratulations" but "Really?"
[*:21esys8v]And how could we forget the classic: You know you have under a 3.0 when you wince every time someone online comforts another stressed out applicant by telling them "well at least your GPA is over a three so things won't be that bad."