TheCrow

It's a bit complicated. I'm interested in becoming a social work professor (focusing in policy, not clinical work). Per the professional accreditation requirements, I need both the MSW and the PhD. There are a few MSW/PhD programs that are funded, but they are almost all at top schools (Michigan, WashU, et al.) or require a master's degree in a related field. Otherwise, I would need to get the MSW first and then apply to PhD programs. But regional MSW programs are bad fits: while affordable, they are focused almost exclusively on clinical methods and are intended for training those who are already working in social services full-time in that areas (as a result, it's likely that I'd be rejected at San Jose State University but have no problem getting into UChicago or Columbia for an MSW, who accept some huge percentage of those who apply). So, I would need to attend an MSW program that does work in policy, but, as a professional degree, there's practically no funding for the degree. The MSW itself is not going to prepare me with the research skills for the kinds of jobs I would want outside of the academy if the PhD didn't work out. If I went for the MSW at someone that wasn't a terrible fit, it would cost me lots of money and those loans would continue to accrue interest while I'm in a PhD program. It's far cheaper and a better preparation for the PhD to earn a master's degree in a related field, nonprofessional field (the MSW is mostly supervised field placement)--and it would allow me to apply to far more MSW/PhD programs. I don't have the prerequisites for a master's degree in statistics, an MA in sociology is awfully unemployable (and I've already taken the PhD methods sequence in sociology here anyway), much less history, political science, etc. As you can begin to tell, one reason there's a shortage of social work faculty is the organization of the field. I'm only looking at one or two master's degrees in economics. I'm applying for the MSW/PhD programs I can, as well as two MSW-only programs that might be a good fit and affordable.

The MS degree at NC State. I'm also looking at the master's degree at UNC-Charlotte. Perhaps this is not what you intended, but while it's not Chicago, I wouldn't say NC State isn't a "good" university--particularly for someone who doesn't intend to be a professional economist (i.e., one who holds an econ PhD). I'm also surprised to hear that word choice from someone in the higher education/student affairs field... East Carolina University offers a non-thesis, one-year, terminal master's degree in applied and resource economics that's far less competitive than NC State's econ masters. One of their graduates went to UVA for a PhD in Education afterwards--according to the DGS, knowing more statistics than the faculty in that department, they were asked to teach the graduate statistics sequence their first year at UVA.

I'm looking at thesis-based master's degrees in economics, particularly the MS at NC State (it's cheap and in state), as preparation for policy-related graduate study in a field other than economics. I'm using these programs as another option in case I'm not admitted to the doctoral programs (in another field) I'm applying to, but I'm not sure how competitive I am. Am I aiming too high? Top 20 Undergrad, US Citizen ~3.2 Overall GPA Major: Economics/Mathematics (one joint, not double major) Econ Classes: Principles of Micro: B-, Principles of Macro: A, Public Choice: B-, Intermediate Micro: A-, Intermediate Macro: B, Econ Stats: A-, Econometrics: A- Math Classes: Calculus I: A, Calculus II: C, Multivariable Calculus: C, Linear Algebra: B, Proof-writing Seminar: D+, Mathematical Economics (Taking Semester of Application) Other: Intro to Computer Science I: A

When I went to the info session, they said the average GPA is around a 3.4.

He probably means a PhD in Clinical Psychology, which are often more competitive than medical school, and is based primarily on the successful completion of an original research contribution to the field, not coursework. A PhD in Clinical Psychology is not intended to prepare you to be a school social worker. If you wanted to be a psychologist and are not interested in research positions, there is a professional PsyD degree.

PhD programs in what? If in social work, you need both the MSW and the PhD to be a social work professor in most places. There are a limited number of MSW/PhD programs, but it's not like history or political science where you just get the MS en route. And if you don't want to be a researcher, it's not worth the time of an MSW/PhD program to try to get funding.

Many states have a non-clinical licensure like LMSW (Licensed Master Social Worker) that you qualify for by virtue of having an MSW and can put after your name. Incidentally, UChicago's AM is Latin (Artium Magister) for Master of Arts. Columbia grants an MS.

Have you looked at Case Western?

Has anyone read "Unfaithful Angels: How Social Work Has Abandoned its Mission" by Harry Specht (Deceased Dean of Social Work at UC-Berkeley) and Mark Courtney (Professor at UChicago)? What were your thoughts? "In this provocative examination of the fall of the profession of social work from its original mission to aid and serve the underprivileged, Harry Specht and Mark Courtney show how America's excessive trust in individualistic solutions to social problems have led to the abandonment of the poor in this country. A large proportion of all certified social workers today have left the social services to enter private practice, thereby turning to the middle class -- those who can afford psychotherapy -- and away from the poor. As Specht and Courtney persuasively demonstrate, if social work continues to drift in this direction there is good reason to expect that the profession will be entirely engulfed by psychotherapy within the next twenty years, leaving a huge gap in the provision of social services traditionally filled by social workers. The authors examine the waste of public funds this trend occasions, as social workers educated with public money abandon community service in increasing numbers."

It depends on whether you're viewing higher education from a human capital perspective or a status-conflict perspective. For the majority of college applicants, their application to baccalaureate programs is an exercise in instrumental rationality (i.e., a means to another end). The tired argument that you can get just as good of an education at a less selective school as you can at an elite school is moot if students are ultimately being hired and admitted to graduate school due to factors other than the quality of the education itself. Our current system of rankings rewards those who enroll top students and makes little if any effort to assess the quality of the education itself. I would push back a bit against this narrative of personal merit and individualistic competition. Your SAT and GPA are near perfect (perhaps even above the 75th percentile at the institution you applied to); you have significant extracurriculars and strong letters. When you don't get in, it wasn't necessarily because you didn't try enough or because other people were better. It often means that you just didn't have enough of what the dominant subgroup values: financial capital (and correlates thereof), cultural capital, social capital, etc. Learning how to accept rejection is positive, but it doesn't follow from that premise that schools ought to be excused from their participation in replicating inequality from one generation to the next.

I'm taking the second half of the graduate methods sequence next semester. I'll focus on doing well in that course.

I received a B+ in a graduate social science methods course that I took last semester (I'm an undergraduate). I had a high A average before the final exam, so I've e-mailed the instructor to ask what I received on the final exam (my final exam grade would have had to be almost 20 points lower than my average up to that point to have dropped me down to a B+). I'm not majoring in the social science field I took the graduate course in (in fact, I'm majoring in a quantitative field), but I hope to get a PhD in the field of the graduate course. Since I'm majoring in a quantitative field and the course was in a quantitative methods course, I'm concerned it will hurt me significantly in the admissions process. If it comes down to it, is it worth appealing the grade? Though I haven't seen the final exam, I do have concerns that I was assigned a really low grade on the final exam (to legitimate the low overall grade) because I'm an undergraduate. If it's relevant, the course instructor is not tenure track.

I'm a junior looking to apply to graduate programs next fall. I've started to look through department websites, look at faculty research interest, and the like to identify schools to give further review and those to mark off the list. Despite having looked through every thread on this subforum, I'm still confused about how developed research interest should be and how close they should be aligned with faculty at the campus. Is something like, "I'm interested in the impact of the distribution of economic resources and power on crime/deviance?" too broad/vague? Is something like, "I'm interested in the impact of the distribution of economic resources and power in what behaviors are recognized as deviance or criminal in adjudication of nonviolent juvenile action, using statistical modeling and social dominance theory" too specific? Also, I'm interested in making serious use of statistical methods. I'm taking the graduate methods sequence in sociology at my current university and I have a sufficient mathematical background for graduate study in statistics. I've identified three universities that will allow students to seek a joint PhD in sociology and statistics--many more that will allow students to earn an en route MS in statistics. I'd like to mention my interests in making serious use of statistics, but without suggesting that my interests lie outside of the department I'm applying to (or seeming that I might be distracted from the real point of the PhD in sociology by work in statistics). Is there a risk in coming off as too interested in advanced methods training?

After completing an MSW program, you are usual eligible for something like an LMSW (Licensed Master Social Worker) or LSW (Licensed Social Worker) designation. To receive the LCSW (or equivalent licensure) and practice clinical work independently, you need a certain number of supervised hours (which usually takes 2-3 years post-MSW, depending on your state).

Of course, that depends on how much overlap there actually is. Looks like 6 hours from the education side (http://ced.ncsu.edu/academics/departments/cice/new-literacies-and-global-learning/masters/nlgl-secondary-english). It looks like it's also possible to apply to the MFA and the MEd at the same time: http://ncstategraduateschool.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1227/kw/multiple/session/L3RpbWUvMTM4MjQ4Njc0MC9zaWQvQ3E0U2p0RGw%3D

As far as I understand, you can still become an LCSW, even if you follow the macro (research/policy) track.

I think you're going to have to look closely at schools' policies on the award of multiple master's degrees. From just the poking around I've done, it looks like few schools will allow you to use credit from a previous degree to complete a second one (so you want to look at somewhere that will allow you to pursue both simultaneously). For instance: http://policies.ncsu.edu/regulation/reg-02-25-02

Yep, that's exactly my question. But it sounds like it varies from program to program. I guess I should ask someone in the graduate faculty under what conditions and to what extent it matters that an applicant completed graduate coursework while an undergraduate. I understand there are far more important things (e.g., fit, SOP, LORs), but I'm interested in this question because my first major is quantitative and graded on a curve, so my GPA is a bit lower than the standard 3.6/3.7+ for applicants to sociology PhD programs. I guess this is the point--I'm not in a PhD program (I'm an undergraduate), though the course is a graduation requirement for the PhD program here (in the field I'm planning to apply to).

So far, I have a fairly clear A. What I'm curious about--and I guess this might seem silly--is whether, in social science (specifically sociology) it's assumed that good performance is an A; so if I take a grad class, it's neither surprising nor particularly interesting that I get an A (and that if I got below that, it might be concerning that I'm not fit or prepared for doctoral study--which seems to be the case for many humanities graduate programs). On the other hand, if that's not the case, is an A (and perhaps methods courses are different than theory courses) something notable for graduate programs in sociology, particularly if my performance holds up in the second half of the sequence next semester? Or, finally, is it so program-specific that it's not possible to draw any conclusions? If it matters at all for context, the class is part of the PhD program at a top-40 school in sociology--not part of a terminal master's program (which I understand PhD programs can, perhaps unfairly, assume to have grade inflation).

I'm an undergraduate taking a quantitative methods graduate course in sociology. My understanding is that in graduate humanities fields, an A represents "You're doing what you're supposed to," an A- represents concerns, and a B+ or below indicates you should reinvent yourself or leave. In graduate STEM fields, however, B-range grades are both common and acceptable, and coursework is even seen as a distraction from research ("If you're getting all As, you should be in the lab more."). I haven't been able to find much about grading in social sciences, however. I'm doing well in the class, but I was curious to better understand what grades mean and how they might be perceived by graduate programs. I'm also hesitant to ask the instructor questions how I compare to other students in the class or what the grade mean because I don't want to seem to focused on grading.

I'm graduating next fall and currently have about a 3.4. I'm majoring in econ/math and I'm taking the graduate methods sequence in sociology right now (at a top 40 sociology program). Is a 3.4 high enough to be considered, or will my application be cut before it's read?

UNC Chapel Hill 10,248/27,460

I marked them off my list when I saw they said they had 8 endowed partial scholarships. The full-time program is 3 semesters and a summer, for a total of over $50,000.

"I will have to pay unless I want to declare bankruptcy and ruin my credit rating forever." Actually, I do not believe you're allowed to discharge your student loans in bankruptcy.

I'm somewhat surprised that UChicago, Columbia, UPenn, and NYU fill their classes in any given year due to the cost and earning potential. What's quite frustrating is how expensive professional degrees are (MPA, MPP, MSW). I'm interested in macro-level social work (not clinical work) and would like to get a PhD in the field and do research. It's difficult, however, to justify >$20k in loans for an MSW when other fields like economics and sociology would practically pay me to attend (even for a master's only).