bluebunny

Life is very short my friend .
Everyone need to take decision on the right time.
Because time moving fastly.
You take long time you can miss the right oppertunity.

Husband's cousin posted on FB yesterday:

"Wow I am starting to feel limited in what I can do. I want to teach but I need a 2.5 GPA. Sadly I have a 2.2. If I want to get into a grad program what I want wants a minimum of a 3.0 GPA major/cumulative. What am I going to do now?"

Sorry honey, not everyone is meant to go to grad school. As my husband said, "Maybe you should've tried harder the first time?"

Then she goes on to say, after someone offered the advice of taking more classes to raise your GPA:

"I wish I could but I have to pay for classes myself soon. I am trying to get a 2nd degree but I think it's proving to be worse than my first degree"

Sorry but, your first degree is in theatre. What could be worse? (No offense to any arts people out there but.... really.) We were both a bit flabberghasted about the entire discussion/situation.

if you got in to at least one place that you're happy to go to, then i'd say that's all you need.

Funding is important

Yah no harm done right?

If it's your top choice why not wait it out?

Agreed, more info. needed

lol

What obligation do you think schools have to narrow their list before they invite candidates to interview at their own expense? I think they justify it by the potential funding you can get, but I was pretty surprised by how many people get rejected out of 80 or so people who scraped up hundreds of dollars to visit campus. So then you have to visit several schools, to cover your odds, and it's next to impossible when you have a job to get the necessary time off. So then you get people working in higher education who have never left college after starting, and I think that's a disservice. You don't really know what college did for you until you leave it and settle into the real world for a while and see that not everyone values "diversity" like a college campus, etc.

Anyway, I think if college administration is all about increasing access for lower-income students, these higher ed programs are failing to meet their goal.

I do quantum chemistry and a little bit of cheminformatics, so I am a bit scared that I might be stuck in academia. What kind of research in theoretical/computational chemistry has a good prospect in industry? It seems like pharmaceuticals is the easiest one to get a job in but my research group is not interested in that. I really like the research that I am doing right now but I don't want to waste my time doing research that won't be of much value to me later on.

I was talking with a friend who is finishing up her PhD and her post doc position only pays about 40 K, which is just a little more than the regular graduate student stipend which has really surprised me. I heard that is typical salary for a post doc. Is that true? After more than five years of graduate school, does your earning potential only increase by 10 K. That is really disappointing. How much do people typically earn in industry or other jobs immediately after graduating?

My feeling that the programs I applied to tend to admit more foreign students was not based on me looking at the current PhD student profiles. This is just something that I was told by a Marketing Professor. It is no secret that a lot of schools are facing unprecedented budget constraints/cuts. Unfortunately, this has led to smaller than normal class sizes. Universities are using whatever measures they can to assure the continuation of their various business programs. What my professor was trying to convey is the fact that foreign students are blessed in the fact that their countries/families/businesses back them 100% financially. This, in turn, allows schools to admit students into their classes and not have to spend a dime. Can you blame them? I certainly can't. One of the schools I applied to (Rice) decided not to admit anyone because of budget constraints.

Please do not think I am generalizing my belief/perception of a harsh reality of a great deal of American students seeking to gain admittance into a business school. In the economy we are in right now, it is just a little harder to get into a decent school. Again, I am not trying to belittle, talk about, take a cheap shot at, or anything to foreign students. I only wish America took such an interest in the education of its citizens that sought to pursue such an advanced degree such as a PhD. I can guarantee you, if I would seek acceptance into a foreign university, the good USA would NOT back me financially. I was just upset and was venting.

Finally, I apologize to any foreign student I may have offended, upset, or whatever. Again, it WAS NOT my intent!!!!!!! I am very sorry!

Perhaps my original post came off wrong. I certainly WAS NOT trying to take a potshot at foreign students. Again, I was going off what I have seen with my own eyes, and heard with my own ears. It is just apparently the way it is in the field. Am I mad at foreign students??? Absolutely not! I have nothing against them...never have...never will. Getting, yet, another rejection was just devastating to me. I probably should have taken a moment before I posted anything on here. It was/is not my intention to "attack" foreign students at all!!!!

As far as asking how to improve my application, well, I have asked the programs where I was rejected how I can move forward and improve my application for the next time. I feel the advice of the individuals that actually reviewed my application is very valuable and I am taking what they said and running with it. I have already received the information on how to improve my application from actual Marketing Professors, so I did not see a reason to ask the same question again on a public internet board. I did; however, ask (on this forum) how I can go about getting the research experience I keep being told I need to get in order to really improve my application.

Again, I did not come here to cry for sympathy. I was only venting just like lots of other folks have done on here. Nothing more...nothing less.

Everyone keeps saying I need to get some research experience, but I have no idea how to go about doing so. I am a 35 year old male who is the sole provider for my wife and 3 children. I am stuck in a piss ass Law Enforcement job that I can't stand and so desperately want out of this career. No one is hiring and the marketing jobs that do see want you to have tons I experience. I did graduate with my MBA in 2007 within that top 5-10%, but that doesn't mean shit! Since research experience is so important to these schools, I really don't see the need to even waste my time or money reapplying to something that obviously will never accept me!!!!

Honestly, to be very frank, taking our 80,000 in loans is a terrible idea for a master's degree...in just about anything. Look at the job market. Look at your expected salary after you finish the master's degree. Look at all the other debt that you are carrying--car, credit cards, undergraduate student loans, etc. How much money can you make next year without a master's degree? Now add 40,000 to that number, and that's the opportunity cost of going to graduate school.

This is my personal, cynical, biased opinion. Master's programs in the humanities and social work are full of people who take out HUGE loans for comparably little reward. These master's students take classes with PhD students who are not only on a full scholarship, but are also getting paid a (barely) living stipend. You are sinking into debt, they are treading water.

I agree. I know more than a few people who took on considerable debt because they were certain that the name of their school was some kind of insurance in the job market -- that they could later get a PhD, start a lucrative career within a year or two, and pay down their debt within five. They are now struggling to make loan payments and renting apartments I wouldn't even have considered as an undergraduate. I'm Canadian, and in this country the vast majority of graduate programs (including masters-level) are funded adequately enough to cover tuition and living expenses without necessitating loans.

For people who think that they are somehow more exceptional than the folks described above -- money isn't everything, but it's naïve to think that it's trivial or easy-to-come-by. Apologies if this sounds harsh. I know some people are going to dismiss this kind of advice no matter what, and I wish them luck. Some disciplines are exceptions, of course, but for the majority of humanities, social sciences, and pure sciences, please consider carefully.

And remember that the choice is not Masters degree vs. no-Masters-degree; there are options for funding, and they're worth finding. Lastly, keep in mind that some of your classmates will be financed by their parents, and after graduation they'll likely get hired before you do, for a multitude of other reasons. (Self-presentation counts for a lot in job interviews, and it's hard to maintain when your nutrition is poor, you have no health insurance, you haven't been to the dentist in years, and you can't afford nicely tailored clothes and grown-up shoes.)

I'm not a Social Work person, but I have quite a few friends who are. Look $80,000 is too much debt for a master's degree.

I'm one of those people that firmly believes in following your passion, especially if it's for social justice and making a difference (I'll more than likely be teaching for the next few years or so ... absolutely no money there, but I enjoy it). But you have to balance that with the reality of what your life will be like when you follow your heart. You'll be carrying $80,000 + whatever loans you have from undergrad + credit card debt + car loans + a mortgage + health insurance + groceries + utilities + etc. Not sure if you're married, but also imagine paying for a wedding with all those expenses, or bringing that much debt into a marriage and then having kids...

My advice to you would be to find a cheaper program. An MSW doesn't have to be from USC (where I also imagine the cost of living is quite high). I would decide where I want to practice and then find a program there, so that I could establish connections and tell the financial aid department at my school that I intend to stay in the area and any grant to me would be an investment in the community.




There's always another option, you may not like it ... but there's another option (and believe me, I'm being faced with a situation like this right now). I understand having no money for grad school. Why is it that you have to go to grad school in DC? That city and its surrounding area are ridiculously expensive. It's beautiful and fun, but I know right now I could never afford to live there. Add to that the fact that nearly half that city has a B.A. in International Studies or something comparable and it make sense that the jobs are scarce: you're competing with every GWU, American U, Georgetown, Howard undergrad with an International Studies, Political Science, Political Economy, Urban Studies, Economics, Public Policy major since they can all pretty much be used interchangably for the kind of jobs you're looking for plus all the kids with those degrees who went to school somewhere else but are trying to break into the DC scene.

For some areas, you need a masters degree, and social work is one of those fields. While a MSW from a private school is nice, it's probably not necessary if you want to work in the field (better if you want to move into management, but I digress). You might want to consider a cheaper program from a state school, or a slightly less prestigious program where you would be a top-tier applicant and more likely to get funding. If you are truly passionate about social work, you'll still shine in the program, even if you have to leverage more resources in the program to receive the same education. Plus, having a more managable debt load upon graduation would allow you to pursue the work you want to do instead of pursuing the jobs that just pay the most money.

Also, aren't these marketing PhD programs among those that only accept 2 or 3 students each year? If that's the case, the odds of getting into one are very small. Why be disheartened?

Side note: I would have viewed your post with more sympathetic eyes if you had not felt the need to make snide remarks about foreign students. It is well known that American universities are always more reluctant to admit foreign students than domestic ones. Xenophobia won't help you solve your problems.

Updated my signature! Now off to find a really tall building!!!

Looks like I have been rejected from every school. I am so angry and depressed. I don't know what I am going to do. Don't even know if I am going to even waste my time or money reapplying next year. Looking at the previous classes, seems most universities are only interested in foreign students for the program I was hoping to get into.

To be perfectly honest, it is a little disheartening to not even be able to get into a school, in my own country, for a Marketing PhD. I am so through with this whole process. Guess I need to start looking for a job now! Whatever! F it!!!

--Out

So this is just not true. I dont mean to be a jerk about it, but i just dont think youre right (and this is from several years working with a professor at MIT). And i am strictly talking about academia because you are perhaps right about industry positions although i dont know much about it.
While i concede what you do in grad schools is far more important, and some of the other factors are very important as well, a lot of at least top faculty positions are going to be hard to get not coming from a top school. As jjsakurai pointed out, the caliber of student and even faculty are going to be higher at top places and will increase the quality of your collaborations, publications and just overall training. Like i said, having a well known good professor at a top school is going to be paramount in where you end up (of course barring as you said the student actually performs well).

So while you are right that nothing can make up for a good performance in grad school, the stark reality is that unless you are a rockstar at your university, ending up with a faculty position at a top school is going to be hard if you did not coming from a very good (top) graduate program. I dont mean to be elitist, and surely there are tons of other really great schools and they have a lot of faculty positions from other very good schools as well, but having talked to many faculty members again at a top school, i just wanted to correct what you are saying, because although that would be the ideal situation, it is not the reality.

I'm not sure how you could even have this be a close decision. Berkeley blows both Tech and Austin away. They are all good but those two are not in the she class as Berkeley.

If getting your posts downvoted on an online message board qualifies as "really aweful behavior" then I feel your moral compass is broken. There is way worse going on in this world. Also in the thread you refer to in your initial post you complain alot about people downvoting you. This is to me a very annoying habbit, and one that leads me to downvote any post where you complain about being downvoted, as I feel that kind of complaint doesnt add anything to the discussion.

So what kind of positions in industry pay a decent amount? something like 80 K? Before I decide on my PhD project, I just want to make sure that I will get a decent job in industry. I don't want to go into academia but seems like most people from my lab go to academia. I want to design my PhD in such a way that I will have lots of good options outside academia.